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  • #46
    My daughter who is a senior this year is choosing between one of my alma maters (Shippensburg) and a few schools in Virginia & Maryland (Norfolk State, Virginia Wesleyan, Virginia State & Morgan State) because she's attending HS in Delaware no matter what school she chooses we will be stuck for 2 years paying the Out of State tuition rate although Shippensburg is offering her a $7k tuition break by declaring a science major. Even with the rise in tutition (I went to Ship/Cheyney from 2001-2007 at 14K living on campus, to her tuition and fees being $27k, its still a heck of a bargain compared to say Penn State in State College where we would be paying almost $50k per year)

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    • #47
      This is a very good and timely discussion on a lot of levels. Personally, I have a high school senior interested in mechanical engineering/ aerospace engineering so the PASSHE schools are out of the question. I have been on at least a dozen college campuses over the last two years taking tours and talking to college professors and personnel. I have been at Ivies (Princeton, Penn and Cornell), Land Grant schools (PSU, Virginia Tech, and Georgia Tech), and small schools (Florida Tech, Drexel, Lehigh, Grove City, Messiah College).

      Here are some observations.... the PASSHE schools have way nicer residential options and facilities than any of the schools I mentioned previously, yet they are losing enrollment- so modern housing options does not necessarily attract students. Virginia Tech had way more students attend than expected and they now have a housing shortage. Their on campus housing has mostly cinder block walls with no air conditioning yet students attend because of the reputation and programming. The same can be said about the ivies I visited- subpar housing compared to Ship or IUP.

      My coworker's son was accepted to IUP and was planning to attend, but WVU offered a mountaineer scholarship for out of state students to mitigate out of state costs. His son choose WVU at the last minute because of the better name on the degree.

      Don't blame the Republicans. A few folks have talked about personnel costs and prevailing wage. I work on a lot of projects on college campuses and prevailing wage is a large driver of increasing costs and also a democratic issue. I don't want to get into a political debate- there is always plenty of blame to go around. I think a larger issue is that members of the Legislature want to promote PSU branches versus PASSHE schools.

      Here is a potential solution as a parent soon paying for tuition and other costs. The PASSHE schools should do what other states do and agree to reduce the cost of out of state tuition to the cost of a student's in state flagship university if that student meets certain academic criteria. WVU and Maine do this quite effectively and this could increase a market for potential students.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by IUPBand8588 View Post
        This is a very good and timely discussion on a lot of levels. Personally, I have a high school senior interested in mechanical engineering/ aerospace engineering so the PASSHE schools are out of the question. I have been on at least a dozen college campuses over the last two years taking tours and talking to college professors and personnel. I have been at Ivies (Princeton, Penn and Cornell), Land Grant schools (PSU, Virginia Tech, and Georgia Tech), and small schools (Florida Tech, Drexel, Lehigh, Grove City, Messiah College).
        Somewhat off-topic but a word of caution as a Drexel alum, if a student is looking for a small school experience, that is not what Drexel offers. Their enrollment is more in line with Georgia Tech than Lehigh. It's definitely a unique experience and is great for the right student, but they have to know what they're looking for. If they get blindsided and the experience is not what they expected, it can be very easy to fall behind with the quick quarter system they have.

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        • #49
          EastStroud13- thanks about Drexel. We were aware of the quarter system. It is a great school with the coop opportunities!

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          • #50
            Originally posted by IUPBand8588 View Post
            EastStroud13- thanks about Drexel. We were aware of the quarter system. It is a great school with the coop opportunities!
            Absolutely; my employer's office in Philly has several co-ops through the program, and it's impressive how many of them end up finding postgrad full-time jobs before they actually graduate, either with the same company or elsewhere. In today's job climate, having that sort of hands-on experience is invaluable. Every school has strengths and weaknesses of course, but the practical value is tough to beat.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by EastStroud13 View Post
              Somewhat off-topic but a word of caution as a Drexel alum, if a student is looking for a small school experience, that is not what Drexel offers. Their enrollment is more in line with Georgia Tech than Lehigh. It's definitely a unique experience and is great for the right student, but they have to know what they're looking for. If they get blindsided and the experience is not what they expected, it can be very easy to fall behind with the quick quarter system they have.
              Drexel has the coolest looking modern dorms of all the Philly city schools.

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              • #52
                Drexel has been transformed in recent years as a result of massive gifts and endowments. From 2011-2017 I worked at 30th & Market and we were just getting swallowed up by their growth. A lot of people with a lot of money want it to be more like its neighbor UPenn. It isn't Ivy League but it's a really dynamic school with a lot going for it and a much higher profile than it used to have.

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                • #53
                  During the Rendell administration a ton of money was dropped into the University City section of Philly for the Penn and Drexel environs. Drexel's campus made a better impression on my son than Penn. South of the campuses there is a lot of development related to the various hospitals. The whole area has a cool vibe!

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by IUPBand8588 View Post
                    During the Rendell administration a ton of money was dropped into the University City section of Philly for the Penn and Drexel environs. Drexel's campus made a better impression on my son than Penn. South of the campuses there is a lot of development related to the various hospitals. The whole area has a cool vibe!
                    It’s about to get even cooler with the whole Schuylkill Yards project underway...

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                    • #55
                      https://www.phillytrib.com/news/stat...05a4800c7.html

                      Cheyney keeps its accreditation. This is probably a good thing for the entire system because this would have been the trial run at closing campuses. I still don't think I've seen a public plan for how they're going to save Cheyney. Gotta decide on the campus property: make it a 2-year residential college feeding other PASSHE schools or sell the campus and go all-in on a commuter/online school in downtown Philly.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
                        https://www.phillytrib.com/news/stat...05a4800c7.html

                        Cheyney keeps its accreditation. This is probably a good thing for the entire system because this would have been the trial run at closing campuses. I still don't think I've seen a public plan for how they're going to save Cheyney. Gotta decide on the campus property: make it a 2-year residential college feeding other PASSHE schools or sell the campus and go all-in on a commuter/online school in downtown Philly.
                        I don't see how it's a good thing for the system when all of the other struggling universities are being more or less forced to forgive $35 million in Cheyney debt. The sins of Cheyney are unforgivable. They are in the current accreditation situation mainly because they gave out millions of dollars of federal aid to students who weren't even qualified to receive it and they couldn't produce the documentation to disprove what amounts to incredible corruption. Nobody even knows where that money went! Cheyney has used up all of it's chances. It's a scam on the rest of the PASSHE and all Pennsylvania taxpayers. Seriously, does Tom Wolf not know these people are scamming him and all of Pennsylvania?

                        And whatever happened to the recent lawsuits filed in September of this year? I have to assume the complainants were paid off. Remember this news below just a couple months ago.

                        https://www.inquirer.com/education/c...-20190920.html

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

                          I don't see how it's a good thing for the system when all of the other struggling universities are being more or less forced to forgive $35 million in Cheyney debt. The sins of Cheyney are unforgivable. They are in the current accreditation situation mainly because they gave out millions of dollars of federal aid to students who weren't even qualified to receive it and they couldn't produce the documentation to disprove what amounts to incredible corruption. Nobody even knows where that money went! Cheyney has used up all of it's chances. It's a scam on the rest of the PASSHE and all Pennsylvania taxpayers. Seriously, does Tom Wolf not know these people are scamming him and all of Pennsylvania?

                          And whatever happened to the recent lawsuits filed in September of this year? I have to assume the complainants were paid off. Remember this news below just a couple months ago.

                          https://www.inquirer.com/education/c...-20190920.html
                          I'm not forgiving their misdeads real or alleged. My only feeling is that closing Cheyney would have tested the public's appetite for closing campuses. I would bet if we polled the legislature right now most would favor keeping the Penn State BFE campuses over a struggling school like Clarion or Mansfield. Both PASSHE and our fellow PASSHE school alumni need to be ready for this fight for our survival.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

                            I'm not forgiving their misdeads real or alleged. My only feeling is that closing Cheyney would have tested the public's appetite for closing campuses. I would bet if we polled the legislature right now most would favor keeping the Penn State BFE campuses over a struggling school like Clarion or Mansfield. Both PASSHE and our fellow PASSHE school alumni need to be ready for this fight for our survival.
                            That's assuming the public or alumni actually care.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by shipfbfan12 View Post
                              My daughter who is a senior this year is choosing between one of my alma maters (Shippensburg) and a few schools in Virginia & Maryland (Norfolk State, Virginia Wesleyan, Virginia State & Morgan State) because she's attending HS in Delaware no matter what school she chooses we will be stuck for 2 years paying the Out of State tuition rate although Shippensburg is offering her a $7k tuition break by declaring a science major. Even with the rise in tutition (I went to Ship/Cheyney from 2001-2007 at 14K living on campus, to her tuition and fees being $27k, its still a heck of a bargain compared to say Penn State in State College where we would be paying almost $50k per year)
                              Yes, Ship is going to be giving a lot of breaks to out-of-state STEM students. We also will be offering reduced rates for Washington County, Md., and Berkeley County, W.Va., which as just south of us, as well as to students in New Jersey, where our rates are very competitive. Depending on which package the student gets, some of the out-of-state rates will be only a few hundred above in-state. The PSAC schools located near state borders have needed this type of flexibility for a long time.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by IUPBand8588 View Post
                                This is a very good and timely discussion on a lot of levels. Personally, I have a high school senior interested in mechanical engineering/ aerospace engineering so the PASSHE schools are out of the question. I have been on at least a dozen college campuses over the last two years taking tours and talking to college professors and personnel. I have been at Ivies (Princeton, Penn and Cornell), Land Grant schools (PSU, Virginia Tech, and Georgia Tech), and small schools (Florida Tech, Drexel, Lehigh, Grove City, Messiah College).

                                Here are some observations.... the PASSHE schools have way nicer residential options and facilities than any of the schools I mentioned previously, yet they are losing enrollment- so modern housing options does not necessarily attract students. Virginia Tech had way more students attend than expected and they now have a housing shortage. Their on campus housing has mostly cinder block walls with no air conditioning yet students attend because of the reputation and programming. The same can be said about the ivies I visited- subpar housing compared to Ship or IUP.

                                My coworker's son was accepted to IUP and was planning to attend, but WVU offered a mountaineer scholarship for out of state students to mitigate out of state costs. His son choose WVU at the last minute because of the better name on the degree.

                                Don't blame the Republicans. A few folks have talked about personnel costs and prevailing wage. I work on a lot of projects on college campuses and prevailing wage is a large driver of increasing costs and also a democratic issue. I don't want to get into a political debate- there is always plenty of blame to go around. I think a larger issue is that members of the Legislature want to promote PSU branches versus PASSHE schools.

                                Here is a potential solution as a parent soon paying for tuition and other costs. The PASSHE schools should do what other states do and agree to reduce the cost of out of state tuition to the cost of a student's in state flagship university if that student meets certain academic criteria. WVU and Maine do this quite effectively and this could increase a market for potential students.
                                The state as a whole does not support higher education, or public education for that matter, in the manner that it should, and the data supporting that is abundant. I agree with regard to the Penn State branches vs. PASSHE. The PSU branches are one of our biggest competitors at Ship. One problem is that Penn State is the big name and presents a unified front in lobbying state legislators.PASSHE has to get stronger in that area. A few months back, a Montgomery County legislator asked why the state insists on providing as much or more aid to "state-related" schools than to the state system it actually owns. It's a good question.

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