Learfield Cup

[ESU Warrior]

https://nacda.com/documents/2019/4/2...ll.pdf?id=3566

Since we were discussing the Dixon Trophy I figured this would be an interesting conversation as well.

West Chester comes in as the highest PSAC school at 11 (which they should be proud of themselves), followed by Ship and then ESU.

Lock Haven is the lowest ranked PSAC team.

I find it interesting that when I google searched how many NCAA D-2 teams there are, google tells me more than 300 (312), while the rankings only go up to 229.

[EastStroud13]

Re: Learfield Cup

https://nacda.com/documents/2019/4/2...ll.pdf?id=3566

Since we were discussing the Dixon Trophy I figured this would be an interesting conversation as well.

West Chester comes in as the highest PSAC school at 11 (which they should be proud of themselves), followed by Ship and then ESU.

Lock Haven is the lowest ranked PSAC team.

I find it interesting that when I google searched how many NCAA D-2 teams there are, google tells me more than 300 (312), while the rankings only go up to 229.

As I alluded to in the other thread, while I think the Dixon Trophy has value within the PSAC, I think the way the Director's Cup is scored makes it essentially meaningless. It gives an equal reward for winning a national championship whether there's 25 teams or 250 teams competing. It's fun to see who scores well and where our conference's teams rank compared to the other conferences, but I don't put too much stock in the actual rankings.

[BuffaloChip]

Re: Learfield Cup

I wonder what the Learfield standings would look like if they only included "real" sports: football, basketball, baseball, softball, volleyball, track/field, hockey, golf, tennis, and (yes) soccer. Maybe someone could spreadsheet that. No curling, diving, beach volleyball, swimming, dog-training, rhythmic gymnastics, knitting, compass navigation, etc.

[Brandon]

Re: Learfield Cup

I wonder what the Learfield standings would look like if they only included "real" sports: football, basketball, baseball, softball, volleyball, track/field, hockey, golf, tennis, and (yes) soccer. Maybe someone could spreadsheet that. No curling, diving, beach volleyball, swimming, dog-training, rhythmic gymnastics, knitting, compass navigation, etc.

We had a discussion about that in the PSAC I believe. I'll try to find it.

[Brandon]

Re: Learfield Cup

We had a discussion about that in the PSAC I believe. I'll try to find it.

I couldn't find it. It was an interesting discussion. We had broken down some sports based upon participation rates and that sort of thing.

[IUPNation]

As I alluded to in the other thread, while I think the Dixon Trophy has value within the PSAC, I think the way the Director's Cup is scored makes it essentially meaningless. It gives an equal reward for winning a national championship whether there's 25 teams or 250 teams competing. It's fun to see who scores well and where our conference's teams rank compared to the other conferences, but I don't put too much stock in the actual rankings.

The Dixon Cup is scored meaningless too. You sweep the 15 track categories and you have the edge. Let me guess, the same kids compete in each season too. So you only have to recruit a few fast kids and suddenly you are the bestest sports program in the PSAC.

If IUP has won foosball this season in addition to sweeping basketball, it would be no doubt IUP has the best sports program and should have been handed the Dixon.

[iupgroundhog]

Re: Learfield Cup

https://nacda.com/documents/2019/4/2...ll.pdf?id=3566
Since we were discussing the Dixon Trophy I figured this would be an interesting conversation as well.
West Chester comes in as the highest PSAC school at 11 (which they should be proud of themselves), followed by Ship and then ESU.
Lock Haven is the lowest ranked PSAC team.
I find it interesting that when I google searched how many NCAA D-2 teams there are, google tells me more than 300 (312), while the rankings only go up to 229.

That is interesting considering that Lock Haven's 18th place finish in the D1 NCAA wrestling tournament a couple of weeks ago is arguably the most notable athletic performance of anything in the PSAC in 2018-19.

And if people want to focus on "revenue" sports because of the notoriety associated with those sports I think there is more of that in the D1 wrestling championship than in any D2 sport. Over 100,000 in attendance for the 3 day tournament in Pittsburgh, 625,000 watched the finals on ESPN, about 2.5 million watched some part of the tournament (not sure if that includes internet streaming). LHU again a tournament darling (the David vs. Goliath effect) with 2 AA's who were both crowd favorites. How many people tune into the D2 FB and BB championship games?

[jrshooter]

Re: Learfield Cup

The Dixon Cup is scored meaningless too. You sweep the 15 track categories and you have the edge. Let me guess, the same kids compete in each season too. So you only have to recruit a few fast kids and suddenly you are the bestest sports program in the PSAC.

If IUP has won foosball this season in addition to sweeping basketball, it would be no doubt IUP has the best sports program and should have been handed the Dixon.

You do get that the cross-country program covers about two events on the track, don't you?

And if you can't even field men's soccer or wrestling squads, any talk about being the beacon of the PSAC rings a little hollow.

Seven men's sports. Pathetic. :wink:

[BuffaloChip]

Re: Learfield Cup

I couldn't find it. It was an interesting discussion. We had broken down some sports based upon participation rates and that sort of thing.

The "very" minor sports tilt the Leaefielpd standings to schools like GV that have all these minor sports that few school field teams in.

[iupgroundhog]

Re: Learfield Cup

You do get that the cross-country program covers about two events on the track, don't you?

And if you can't even field men's soccer or wrestling squads, any talk about being the beacon of the PSAC rings a little hollow.

Seven men's sports. Pathetic. :wink:

Yeah, And I knew people who were on both the soccer team and the wrestling team when those sports were dropped. Got to admit, though, Ship did benefit from having strong T & F teams when they counted M & W Indoor and Outdoor T & F. That boosted Ship in the rankings.

[Redwing]

Re: Learfield Cup

The "very" minor sports tilt the Leaefielpd standings to schools like GV that have all these minor sports that few school field teams in.

Care to state which very "minor" sports GV "uses" to win the cup? If some want to call Swimming and diving minor.. uh, ok, but the rest are fairly common College sports. And I wonder how the student athletes in those sports feel about your comment. FWIW, they all are under the NCAA.

I guess to "even" things out, the rules could limit the amount of sports (I think it's 7 per sex now??) to a smaller number or require a defined list of "major" sports to be included as one of the 7. Still I don't think it'll change outcomes all that much. Frankly, I think it's a hollow argument though.

I admit that GV does sponsor numerous sports, but ironically that's one of the reasons they are staying D2 as long as they are. Keep in mind, the school isn't spending that much on those so called "minor" sports. So, why won't other schools do the same? It's pretty doable. For example, one of the GLIAC Conf. smaller schools, Northwood (1500 traditional undergrad), sponsors more than 15 sports. Not only that, they are essentially a business school so they don't have a ton of majors to choose from. Even Ashland Univ. has like 3-3.5k students and they have come close to winning the cup. So, IMO, it's a pretty fair playing field for the Cup.

I suspect I'll get flamed, but I think that if one puts a priority on the program, it can achieve. Size might have some impact, but there are other bigger factors in play. Like recruiting good athletes for a start.

[EyeoftheHawk]

I suspect I'll get flamed, but I think that if one puts a priority on the program, it can achieve. Size might have some impact, but there are other bigger factors in play. Like recruiting good athletes for a start.

[IUPNation]

Learfield Cup

The "very" minor sports tilt the Leaefielpd standings to schools like GV that have all these minor sports that few school field teams in.

[IUPNation]

Yeah, And I knew people who were on both the soccer team and the wrestling team when those sports were dropped. Got to admit, though, Ship did benefit from having strong T & F teams when they counted M & W Indoor and Outdoor T & F. That boosted Ship in the rankings.

[jrshooter]

Re: Learfield Cup

Who. Won. Last. :tongue:

And anyway, I don't hold this "double points" thing in much regard. Joe Longlegs wins the PSAC indoor high-jump competition. Joe Longlegs wins the PSAC outdoor high-jump competition. That's two competitions, not one. Double points.

(Yes, Joe is the son of the infamous Daddy.)