Rivalries

[SecretlySavage]

I've been wondering about the history between all the PSAC teams and thought I would ask about it here. Who do you consider to be your teams biggest rival? I know we have games like the IUP v Cal Coal Bowl and the Clarion v Slip Milk Jug Game, but those might not mean anything to the fans. Also, who should Shepherds main rival be? Shippensburg is the closest, but West Chester might be better in terms of play quality.

Personally, I've never seen Slip as Clarions rival. Slip has always been leagues better than us so no point. At the same time though, I haven't been following D2 football for as long as many others so I might be totally wrong to feel that way. I feel like the other PennWest branches should be our rivals, especially Edinboro since they seem to be the closest to Clarion in terms of geography and quality of play. Let me know what you think about rivalries in our conference, I'm interested!

[Fightingscot82]

Shepherd and Shippensburg had a long-standing non-conference game. But when that stopped, I imagine it hurt the rivalry. WCU's top rival for a while was Delaware. There could have been some fun geographic non-conference rivalries beyond those two but a lot of those NAIA schools went DIII and won't play us.

Everybody seems to gun for IUP given their history. That's a testament to them but also a common sentiment within PASSHE schools beyond athletics. Even in IUP's off years, they are still a highlighted game. For most teams, beating them in those off years is still considered an upset. The years when Gannon got mouthy online, everyone came gunning for them.

There is an opportunity to create some sort of competition between the merged campuses but Mansfield doesn't have NCAA football. Erie tried creating a competition for Edinboro, Gannon, and Mercyhurst but NOBODY cared or put enough effort into making it feel like a thing.

What hurts rivalries in the PSAC is one of the best things about the conference: a lot of the schools are recruiting the same kids and schools, so players know as many guys on the other team as it is in the NFL. Its hard to hate your old high school teammate or the guy who transferred to be closer to home. If anything, coaching staff egos or gameday player attitudes are what drives anything.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Shepherd and Shippensburg had a long-standing non-conference game. But when that stopped, I imagine it hurt the rivalry. WCU's top rival for a while was Delaware. There could have been some fun geographic non-conference rivalries beyond those two but a lot of those NAIA schools went DIII and won't play us.

Everybody seems to gun for IUP given their history. That's a testament to them but also a common sentiment within PASSHE schools beyond athletics. Even in IUP's off years, they are still a highlighted game. For most teams, beating them in those off years is still considered an upset. The years when Gannon got mouthy online, everyone came gunning for them.

There is an opportunity to create some sort of competition between the merged campuses but Mansfield doesn't have NCAA football. Erie tried creating a competition for Edinboro, Gannon, and Mercyhurst but NOBODY cared or put enough effort into making it feel like a thing.

What hurts rivalries in the PSAC is one of the best things about the conference: a lot of the schools are recruiting the same kids and schools, so players know as many guys on the other team as it is in the NFL. Its hard to hate your old high school teammate or the guy who transferred to be closer to home. If anything, coaching staff egos or gameday player attitudes are what drives anything.

Yeah. Some of these 'rivalries' are much more heated on this board than they are on the actual field.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I've been wondering about the history between all the PSAC teams and thought I would ask about it here. Who do you consider to be your teams biggest rival? I know we have games like the IUP v Cal Coal Bowl and the Clarion v Slip Milk Jug Game, but those might not mean anything to the fans. Also, who should Shepherds main rival be? Shippensburg is the closest, but West Chester might be better in terms of play quality.

Personally, I've never seen Slip as Clarions rival. Slip has always been leagues better than us so no point. At the same time though, I haven't been following D2 football for as long as many others so I might be totally wrong to feel that way. I feel like the other PennWest branches should be our rivals, especially Edinboro since they seem to be the closest to Clarion in terms of geography and quality of play. Let me know what you think about rivalries in our conference, I'm interested!

It can't be manufactured. Something has to spark it.

And, yes, when one team wins every game it isn't a rivalry (no matter what they try to push).

[SecretlySavage]

Yeah. Some of these 'rivalries' are much more heated on this board than they are on the actual field.

This board is the only reason D2 football is worth following tbqh, CU stinks and no one on campus or in town cares about the team, so I completely agree with this sentiment. I made this thread knowing that our rivalries are never going to be as big as Michigan/Ohio, but I still think that trying to foster that attitude is worthwhile.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

This board is the only reason D2 football is worth following tbqh, CU stinks and no one on campus or in town cares about the team, so I completely agree with this sentiment. I made this thread knowing that our rivalries are never going to be as big as Michigan/Ohio, but I still think that trying to foster that attitude is worthwhile.

It wasn't always that way at Clarion.

In the mid-90s they used to pack that stadium. Granted, the product was night and day better.

Believe it not, Tippin, my opinion, was the toughest gym in the league for guests in men's hoops back in that era. It would be deafening in there.

Inside the renovated Tippin, if you walk around they have some great framed photos of Memorial Stadium with a full house.

FYI, your men's basketball team may be pretty good this year. Check them out when the season starts.

[Fightingscot82]

It wasn't always that way at Clarion.

In the mid-90s they used to pack that stadium. Granted, the product was night and day better.

Believe it not, Tippin, my opinion, was the toughest gym in the league for guests in men's hoops back in that era. It would be deafening in there.

Inside the renovated Tippin, if you walk around they have some great framed photos of Memorial Stadium with a full house.

FYI, your men's basketball team may be pretty good this year. Check them out when the season starts.

We all had great attendance in the old days before cable sports, high speed internet, smart phone streaming, etc.

[Ram040506]

Shepherd being the new kid on the block (4th year in the PSAC) is developing rivalries. Shippensburg is our biggest rival, but recently it's been quite one sided (15-3 Rams since 2000, Ship still holds overall advantage though). Shepherd and Kutztown has been some great matchups in the last 4 years as well, and the winner since Shepherd joined the PSAC is usually the representative in the East for the PSAC State game.

Shepherd and IUP have a good bit of playoff history as well. I think there is a lot of mutual respect on both sides, as they have been 2 of the most dominant programs in the Region over the last 30 years or so. IUP having been more consistent in that 30 year run, and Shepherd being more of a force the last 15-20 years or so.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

It varies by sport, too. IUP and Mercyhurst is probably the biggest rivalry in men's basketball (certainly in the West). In football, it's not a rivalry at all.


Wasn't the Edinboro/Gannon series building some animosity up that way? Has that fizzled?

Gannon/Mercyhurst is fairly heated in most sports.

[IUPNation]

**** Slimey Pebble!

:-)

[CALUPA69]

CAL U was no one's rival for several decades until Dr Angelo Armenti arrived in the Mon Valley.....and that is a very long story which I'm not the one to tell.
CAL WHO, CAL U !!!

[Ship69]

Shepherd and Shippensburg had a long-standing non-conference game. But when that stopped, I imagine it hurt the rivalry. WCU's top rival for a while was Delaware. There could have been some fun geographic non-conference rivalries beyond those two but a lot of those NAIA schools went DIII and won't play us.

Everybody seems to gun for IUP given their history. That's a testament to them but also a common sentiment within PASSHE schools beyond athletics. Even in IUP's off years, they are still a highlighted game. For most teams, beating them in those off years is still considered an upset. The years when Gannon got mouthy online, everyone came gunning for them.

There is an opportunity to create some sort of competition between the merged campuses but Mansfield doesn't have NCAA football. Erie tried creating a competition for Edinboro, Gannon, and Mercyhurst but NOBODY cared or put enough effort into making it feel like a thing.

What hurts rivalries in the PSAC is one of the best things about the conference: a lot of the schools are recruiting the same kids and schools, so players know as many guys on the other team as it is in the NFL. Its hard to hate your old high school teammate or the guy who transferred to be closer to home. If anything, coaching staff egos or gameday player attitudes are what drives anything.

Ship did stop playing Shepherd for a time from after the 2013 season until Shepherd joined the PSAC in 2019, but I don't know if that really hurt anything as the two had played almost continuously from the late '70s until then. I think what has hurt it more over the years is that the two teams have seldom been good at the same time. Ship largely dominated the early years of the rivalry and were able to maintain their edge through the 1990s into the early 2000s when Shepherd's improvement under Ram legend Monte Cater began, but the tide turned toward Shepherd after Ship stars John Kuhn and Brent Grimes left for the NFL after the Raiders' successful 2004 season. Several hard-fought Ship losses to the Rams after that were punctuated by a Ship win in 2012 during Zac Zulli's Harlon Hill campaign, but Shepherd clobbered the Raiders in 2013 and have resumed their dominance since joining the PSAC. The directions of the two programs have obviously diverged to the extent that Ship followers are starting to worry about whether we're going to keep up with Millersville and East Stroud, let alone Shepherd. Millersville and Ship had some nice battles in the '70s and '80s during the Gene Carpenter years at Millersville, but the Marauders fell off a cliff after that until recently. The story of the East in recent years is of course the addition of Shepherd and the rise of a formerly pedestrian Kutztown program. Those two have largely benefitted by a fall-off in performance by West Chester, Bloomsburg, and Ship, only partly offset by the recent improvement of Millersville and East Stroudsburg. We'll see what the next few years bring.

[EyeoftheHawk]

CAL U was no one's rival for several decades until Dr Angelo Armenti arrived in the Mon Valley.....and that is a very long story which I'm not the one to tell.
CAL WHO, CAL U !!!

This is interesting. Is Cal anyone’s rival in football? I would think it’s IUP (Coal Bowl) and I think of Slippery Rock and Cal as IUP’s rivals, but your point about being nobody’s rival due to the not so glorious days is interesting. Just how long does it take for a rivalry to spark? Does it take decades or can it start after one heated game? There’s probably a research paper or book about it out there. In basketball I always considered Cal to be IUP’s rival.

Then there’s the question of fan rivalry versus players rivalry. Do the players care as much as the fans in most cases? In some cases it’s obvious (Ohio State/Michigan, Oklahoma/Texas, USC/UCLA, Auburn/Alabama, Pitt/West Virginia), but others not so much. Some high school rivalries tend to be bigger than college rivalries, but I think that often is fanbase driven. I remember playing our bitter rivals in high school and it being a way bigger deal for the fans.

[CALUPA69]

This is interesting. Is Cal anyone’s rival in football? I would think it’s IUP (Coal Bowl) and I think of Slippery Rock and Cal as IUP’s rivals, but your point about being nobody’s rival due to the not so glorious days is interesting. Just how long does it take for a rivalry to spark? Does it take decades or can it start after one heated game? There’s probably a research paper or book about it out there. In basketball I always considered Cal to be IUP’s rival.

Then there’s the question of fan rivalry versus players rivalry. Do the players care as much as the fans in most cases? In some cases it’s obvious (Ohio State/Michigan, Oklahoma/Texas, USC/UCLA, Auburn/Alabama, Pitt/West Virginia), but others not so much. Some high school rivalries tend to be bigger than college rivalries, but I think that often is fanbase driven. I remember playing our bitter rivals in high school and it being a way bigger deal for the fans.

Several memorably ODD endings versus the C'HAWKS has regenerated that ancient (say from '69) rivalry. I've never felt the ROCK as the obvious rival they are though I can't say why. As for the rest of the West, since the age of Armenti, there really hasn't been anyone consistently strong enough to matter.

[Fightingscot82]

CAL U was no one's rival for several decades until Dr Angelo Armenti arrived in the Mon Valley.....and that is a very long story which I'm not the one to tell.
CAL WHO, CAL U !!!

That simply shows beyond IUP, everyone wants to be the best teams. Those better Cal teams did have a lot of swagger, especially some of those last chance u style kids.