The ultimate CFB ranking

[jrshooter]

I absolutely love this -- a ranking of all 665 NCAA college football programs from ESPN's Bill Connelly, regardless of division. (Click on it to enlarge for readability.)

[SecretlySavage]

LETS GO #446! All 219 teams behind CU can get rekt.

[jrshooter]

And to take it a step further, here are the PSAC programs, with how many FCS teams they're ranked above and how many D-III teams they're ranked behind.

Team	Ranking	> FCS	< D-III
Slippery Rock	211	61	0
Shepherd	260	27	2
California	264	25	2
East Stroudsburg	273	20	2
Indiana	290	17	5
Kutztown	309	9	7
Gannon	364	0	24
West Chester	370	0	26
Millersville	407	0	43
Shippensburg	418	0	48
Edinboro	423	0	49
Bloomsburg	426	0	49
Lock Haven	440	0	55
Clarion	446	0	56
Mercyhurst	464	0	66
Seton Hill	467	0	66

[EastStroud13]

This shows just how massive outliers the top teams in D3 are. Not sure what they get out of crushing tiny schools week in and week out.

[SouthernLion76]

Interesting way to look at it. Thank you for sharing.

[SecretlySavage]

This shows just how massive outliers the top teams in D3 are. Not sure what they get out of crushing tiny schools week in and week out.

I agree with this, its gotta be even. There has to be a way to make this more even because D3 especially shouldn't be so spread out, they should be all clustered near the bottom as they are meant to be small, more academically focused schools and not all the way up at 200, which makes them better than the vast majority of D2. Many D1 FCS schools are more academically focused and should move down, while the top FBS "schools" are just football programs with libraries.

D3 Teams from 222-347 should all move up to D2
D2 Teams from 566-465 should all move down to D3
D2 Teams from 175-290 should all move up to D1 FCS
D1 FCS Teams from 362-291 should all move down to D2
D1 FCS Teams from 29-116 should all move up to D1 FBS

This would meant that Seton Hill would move down to D3 and Slippery Rock, Shepherd, Cal, Stroudsburg, and IUP would all move into D1 FCS. I don't know if that would work either, it would take a long time for the talent to even out. If this were to actually happen, a lot of these teams would immediately be at the top or bottom of their new divisions for a while.

[Fightingscot82]

I agree with this, its gotta be even. There has to be a way to make this more even because D3 especially shouldn't be so spread out, they should be all clustered near the bottom as they are meant to be small, more academically focused schools and not all the way up at 200, which makes them better than the vast majority of D2. Many D1 FCS schools are more academically focused and should move down, while the top FBS "schools" are just football programs with libraries.

D3 Teams from 222-347 should all move up to D2
D2 Teams from 566-465 should all move down to D3
D2 Teams from 175-290 should all move up to D1 FCS
D1 FCS Teams from 362-291 should all move down to D2
D1 FCS Teams from 29-116 should all move up to D1 FBS

This would meant that Seton Hill would move down to D3 and Slippery Rock, Shepherd, Cal, Stroudsburg, and IUP would all move into D1 FCS. I don't know if that would work either, it would take a long time for the talent to even out. If this were to actually happen, a lot of these teams would immediately be at the top or bottom of their new divisions for a while.

I can tell you that your assumptions are wildly wrong. FCS is about money pure and simple. The schools either don't have or don't want to spend the money it takes to play in the FBS world. Too many are really only D1 for the perceived prestige and the basketball money. March Madness payouts alone fund about 20% of the NEC school athletic budgets.

Money is the reason schools are where they are. Its nothing about how "good" they are. IUP and Slippery Rock could probably compete in several FCS conferences - but having to fund athletic scholarships with real dollars when most of the lower conference schools are simply using coupon codes puts them at an unfair disadvantage. That doesn't even consider the additional money spent suddenly paying D1 coaches instead of D2 coaches and increased travel costs. Those bus day trips to Edinboro and Clarion suddenly become 2 or 3 day excursions to Long Branch and Fairfield. They simply don't have the money.

The same goes for moving down. Clarion and Lock Haven provide valuable athletic scholarship money to students, even if its less than IUP and Slippery Rock. A lot of D2 student athletes wouldn't be in college if not for athletic scholarship money because their families simply don't have it or don't know how to navigate the college financial aid universe. You move down to the Presidents Athletic Conference and you're an outlier school suddenly competing against private schools who are MUCH, MUCH better at selling their schools than PASSHE schools. Plus they give away wild discounts that make jamoke parents think little Susie must be a marquis applicant because Thiel is offering her a $25,000 discount on a $55,000 sticker price while Edinboro is only offering her a $1,000 scholarship. Its one of the reasons our enrollment is suffering - they're really good at selling a 55% discount as if its just for your kid. Anyway, that doesn't improve things.

[jrshooter]

I can tell you that your assumptions are wildly wrong. FCS is about money pure and simple. The schools either don't have or don't want to spend the money it takes to play in the FBS world. Too many are really only D1 for the perceived prestige and the basketball money. March Madness payouts alone fund about 20% of the NEC school athletic budgets.

Money is the reason schools are where they are. Its nothing about how "good" they are. IUP and Slippery Rock could probably compete in several FCS conferences - but having to fund athletic scholarships with real dollars when most of the lower conference schools are simply using coupon codes puts them at an unfair disadvantage. That doesn't even consider the additional money spent suddenly paying D1 coaches instead of D2 coaches and increased travel costs. Those bus day trips to Edinboro and Clarion suddenly become 2 or 3 day excursions to Long Branch and Fairfield. They simply don't have the money.

The same goes for moving down. Clarion and Lock Haven provide valuable athletic scholarship money to students, even if its less than IUP and Slippery Rock. A lot of D2 student athletes wouldn't be in college if not for athletic scholarship money because their families simply don't have it or don't know how to navigate the college financial aid universe. You move down to the Presidents Athletic Conference and you're an outlier school suddenly competing against private schools who are MUCH, MUCH better at selling their schools than PASSHE schools. Plus they give away wild discounts that make jamoke parents think little Susie must be a marquis applicant because Thiel is offering her a $25,000 discount on a $55,000 sticker price while Edinboro is only offering her a $1,000 scholarship. Its one of the reasons our enrollment is suffering - they're really good at selling a 55% discount as if its just for your kid. Anyway, that doesn't improve things.

Couldn't have put that any better.

[DeepBallEnjoyer]

I'm surprised Juniata College even managed to rank above 7 teams. Their QB was almost the recipient of the first NCAA tackle by a girl this season. LOL!

[Ship69]

I can tell you that your assumptions are wildly wrong. FCS is about money pure and simple. The schools either don't have or don't want to spend the money it takes to play in the FBS world. Too many are really only D1 for the perceived prestige and the basketball money. March Madness payouts alone fund about 20% of the NEC school athletic budgets.

Money is the reason schools are where they are. Its nothing about how "good" they are. IUP and Slippery Rock could probably compete in several FCS conferences - but having to fund athletic scholarships with real dollars when most of the lower conference schools are simply using coupon codes puts them at an unfair disadvantage. That doesn't even consider the additional money spent suddenly paying D1 coaches instead of D2 coaches and increased travel costs. Those bus day trips to Edinboro and Clarion suddenly become 2 or 3 day excursions to Long Branch and Fairfield. They simply don't have the money.

The same goes for moving down. Clarion and Lock Haven provide valuable athletic scholarship money to students, even if its less than IUP and Slippery Rock. A lot of D2 student athletes wouldn't be in college if not for athletic scholarship money because their families simply don't have it or don't know how to navigate the college financial aid universe. You move down to the Presidents Athletic Conference and you're an outlier school suddenly competing against private schools who are MUCH, MUCH better at selling their schools than PASSHE schools. Plus they give away wild discounts that make jamoke parents think little Susie must be a marquis applicant because Thiel is offering her a $25,000 discount on a $55,000 sticker price while Edinboro is only offering her a $1,000 scholarship. Its one of the reasons our enrollment is suffering - they're really good at selling a 55% discount as if its just for your kid. Anyway, that doesn't improve things.

Agree with your premises. I guess people get tired of divisions, but I've wondered if a division somewhere between the existing Division II and III levels might be appropriate. There are many Division II schools who want to have money to offer their athletes, but can't get near the 36 scholarship limit of Division II. Perhaps a sort of Division 2b with a limit of 20 scholarship units or so would be appropriate for schools who want to offer financial aid, but don't have the resources for 36 scholarships. Along with a new 20-scholarship division, perhaps raise the Division II limit to 40 scholarships to provide some differentiation between the two. The D2 schools that are at or close to the 36 limit now probably wouldn't have a problem stretching it to 40.

[Ship69]

And to take it a step further, here are the PSAC programs, with how many FCS teams they're ranked above and how many D-III teams they're ranked behind.

Team	Ranking	> FCS	< D-III
Slippery Rock	211	61	0
Shepherd	260	27	2
California	264	25	2
East Stroudsburg	273	20	2
Indiana	290	17	5
Kutztown	309	9	7
Gannon	364	0	24
West Chester	370	0	26
Millersville	407	0	43
Shippensburg	418	0	48
Edinboro	423	0	49
Bloomsburg	426	0	49
Lock Haven	440	0	55
Clarion	446	0	56
Mercyhurst	464	0	66
Seton Hill	467	0	66

Huzzah! We're No. 418!

[Fightingscot82]

Agree with your premises. I guess people get tired of divisions, but I've wondered if a division somewhere between the existing Division II and III levels might be appropriate. There are many Division II schools who want to have money to offer their athletes, but can't get near the 36 scholarship limit of Division II. Perhaps a sort of Division 2b with a limit of 20 scholarship units or so would be appropriate for schools who want to offer financial aid, but don't have the resources for 36 scholarships. Along with a new 20-scholarship division, perhaps raise the Division II limit to 40 scholarships to provide some differentiation between the two. The D2 schools that are at or close to the 36 limit now probably wouldn't have a problem stretching it to 40.

In reality that's probably how you could characterize NAIA but they are almost extinct in this part of the country. The average fan just doesn't realize that divisions are mostly about money and philosophy. But mostly about money (not having it).