WPIAL controversy

[EastStroud13]

The move from 4 classifications to 6 classifications has really hurt high school football. Yeah, some longtime powers are now minor players or have since merged, but it really killed a lot of local rivalries. For decades, North Allegheny-North Hills and Rochester-Monaca were crazy rivalries. But the classifications broke them apart (yeah, Monaca merged) and now NA kids feel as indifferent to North Hills as they do to Sewickley Academy.

Let's be clear. This is on the WPIAL for forcing its divisions to be single-classification, not the PIAA for going to 6 classifications. Many conferences and divisions in Eastern PA are multi-classification and it works fine.

[IUPNation]

The WPIAL worked exceptionally well under the previous classification. People hate the league for a variety of reasons, largely because of their football playoffs specifically. Young kids grow up dreaming of playing at Three Rivers Stadium or Heinz Field/Acrisure Stadium to win a WPIAL championship. Nobody in Pittsburgh grows up saying, "I want to go to Hershey (now Cumberland Valley) to win a state title." I think outside of the Pittsburgh area, that's why people largely hate the WPIAL. They ultimately believe their product is bigger than what exists in the collective around the rest of the state come playoff time. To outsiders and those deep in the PIAA circles, they view that as arrogance I suppose.

I'm not getting into the nuts and bolts of who should move, who should merge, how the WPIAL should choose PIAA playoff representatives, etc. I just don't care about any of those things to be honest. Is the WPIAL watered down? Yes, I think it is now. Was it watered down under the previous classification system? Emphatically, no. Do kids still care more about winning a WPIAL title than they do about getting to the state playoffs and winning there? Locally in Pittsburgh, I think they always will, yes.

I doubt one person in Southeastern Pennsylvania hates the WPIAL. I mean Districts 1 & 12 passed it years ago.

It just looks very inefficient and costly as a setup

Isnt Indiana High playing schools not even that close to Indiana?

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I doubt one person in Southeastern Pennsylvania hates the WPIAL. I mean Districts 1 & 12 passed it years ago.

It just looks very inefficient and costly as a setup

Isnt Indiana High playing schools not even that close to Indiana?

I believe Indiana High is the end of the WPIAL line (eastern).

IHS is too big to join the Heritage. The other option would be to join the league with schools like Punxy and Brookville. I don't know how they align, size-wise, however. Going east with Altoona is an Option. As is IHS is just kind of there. They don't really have any rivals - at least none I'm aware of.

I think the brass at IHS finds the WPIAL to be an ego thing. They've struggled in football the past decade but occasionally get some good cycles. The other sports are typically pretty decent. Baseball won the PIAA last year.

It will be interesting if Ligonier Valley wants to ditch the WPIAL and come crawling back to the Heritage (similar to what West Shamokin did years back).

[IUPNation]

I believe Indiana High is the end of the WPIAL line (eastern).

IHS is too big to join the Heritage. The other option would be to join the league with schools like Punxy and Brookville. I don't know how they align, size-wise, however. Going east with Altoona is an Option. As is IHS is just kind of there. They don't really have any rivals - at least none I'm aware of.

I think the brass at IHS finds the WPIAL to be an ego thing. They've struggled in football the past decade but occasionally get some good cycles. The other sports are typically pretty decent. Baseball won the PIAA last year.

It will be interesting if Ligonier Valley wants to ditch the WPIAL and come crawling back to the Heritage (similar to what West Shamokin did years back).

That Indiana - Mars rivalry must be a barn burner.

[IUP24]

I doubt one person in Southeastern Pennsylvania hates the WPIAL. I mean Districts 1 & 12 passed it years ago.

It just looks very inefficient and costly as a setup

Isnt Indiana High playing schools not even that close to Indiana?

I largely don’t think that it was inefficient when they were operating at four classifications. A lot of conferences built on geographic proximity and many longstanding rivalries within the district died with the changes.

They can certainly go back to 4 classifications and then adjust how they select PIAA participants, but I don’t believe they want to do that given a number of factors.

[EastStroud13]

I largely don’t think that it was inefficient when they were operating at four classifications. A lot of conferences built on geographic proximity and many longstanding rivalries within the district died with the changes.

They can certainly go back to 4 classifications and then adjust how they select PIAA participants, but I don’t believe they want to do that given a number of factors.

That's really what the crux of the issue comes down to. Are those factors worth everything else: weekly blowouts, fewer rivalries being played, and far-flung conferences?

[Chuck Norris]

I believe Indiana High is the end of the WPIAL line (eastern).

IHS is too big to join the Heritage. The other option would be to join the league with schools like Punxy and Brookville. I don't know how they align, size-wise, however. Going east with Altoona is an Option. As is IHS is just kind of there. They don't really have any rivals - at least none I'm aware of.

I think the brass at IHS finds the WPIAL to be an ego thing. They've struggled in football the past decade but occasionally get some good cycles. The other sports are typically pretty decent. Baseball won the PIAA last year.

It will be interesting if Ligonier Valley wants to ditch the WPIAL and come crawling back to the Heritage (similar to what West Shamokin did years back).

I’m a little surprised Indiana and Armstrong hasn’t really gained any traction as a rivalry. Of course right now they’re in different classes so I guess they can’t play each other in football for the time being. But they’ve met a number of times since Armstrong came into existence. Armstrong seems to move between 5A and 4A almost yearly so I don’t think they really have a football rival at this point either.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I’m a little surprised Indiana and Armstrong hasn’t really gained any traction as a rivalry. Of course right now they’re in different classes so I guess they can’t play each other in football for the time being. But they’ve met a number of times since Armstrong came into existence. Armstrong seems to move between 5A and 4A almost yearly so I don’t think they really have a football rival at this point either.

I'd guess the target 'rival' for Armstrong was Kiski Area. But, I'm not sure if that's really taken off.

Indiana and Kiski Area had decent traction in the 90s but now are in different classifications.

The current section IHS is playing in ... goodness. Talk about a hodge podge of teams thrown together.

[IUPNation]

I'd guess the target 'rival' for Armstrong was Kiski Area. But, I'm not sure if that's really taken off.

Indiana and Kiski Area had decent traction in the 90s but now are in different classifications.

The current section IHS is playing in ... goodness. Talk about a hodge podge of teams thrown together.

One school west of the city..two south and two north and Indiana 55 miles away. Bizarre.

[IUP24]

That's really what the crux of the issue comes down to. Are those factors worth everything else: weekly blowouts, fewer rivalries being played, and far-flung conferences?

I'd argue that if you went back to four classifications you create an environment that would be culturally odd given many other dynamics. The way I would understand that would work is that the WPIAL would essentially hand select their PIAA representative (in some cases) to fill a slot in a particular classification, rather than playing it out on the field to determine who represents each class. There's not many 6A schools in the WPIAL. If you go to a 4-class system, you could easily have a 4A, 5A, and 6A representative in the PIAA playoffs that essentially didn't win a playoff tournament to reach that destination.

I just don't think people want to do that. And honestly, I don't think they should want to either.

[IUP24]

I’m a little surprised Indiana and Armstrong hasn’t really gained any traction as a rivalry. Of course right now they’re in different classes so I guess they can’t play each other in football for the time being. But they’ve met a number of times since Armstrong came into existence. Armstrong seems to move between 5A and 4A almost yearly so I don’t think they really have a football rival at this point either.

Teams are moving constantly all across the PIAA now for all sports. They utilize a "gardener points" system (which calculates in a ton of metrics), coupled with enrollment, to determine what classification you are in. Feel like when I was in high school 15 years ago, nobody moved up and down classifications like this. They are restructuring every 2-3 years now. It's insane.

Regarding playing schools in different classifications... "Week 0" was implemented in the WPIAL for this reason. Instead of playing a 2nd scrimmage, teams could opt to schedule a Week 0 game that would count against their record. Schools in different classifications are doing this now so that they can play their geographical rival.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

The Trib has two articles today relating to this topic.

The first is a column by Mark Madden.

The second is a realignment proposal from Fox Chapel.

[IUPNation]

I'd argue that if you went back to four classifications you create an environment that would be culturally odd given many other dynamics. The way I would understand that would work is that the WPIAL would essentially hand select their PIAA representative (in some cases) to fill a slot in a particular classification, rather than playing it out on the field to determine who represents each class. There's not many 6A schools in the WPIAL. If you go to a 4-class system, you could easily have a 4A, 5A, and 6A representative in the PIAA playoffs that essentially didn't win a playoff tournament to reach that destination.

I just don't think people want to do that. And honestly, I don't think they should want to either.

It’s so odd there are so few 6A schools out there when we have plenty of them.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

It’s so odd there are so few 6A schools out there when we have plenty of them.

We are just full of moronic small school districts.

Western PA needs to do some mass consolidating.

[Fightingscot82]

PIAA Football Classification Guidelines & Totals

1 - 143	A	87
144 - 216	AA	98
217 - 295	AAA	91
296 - 423	AAAA	94
424 - 619	AAAAA	95
620 - 9999	AAAAAA	89

Here is the breakdown of football teams across the PIAA by district & classification:

District 1 (71 Schools)	4	2	--	8	27	30
District 2 (33 Schools)	3	5	10	7	5	3
District 3 (91 Schools)	2	7	12	21	27	22
District 4 (34 Schools)	7	12	8	6	--	1
District 5 (11 Schools)	4	6	1	--	--	--
District 6 (40 Schools)	12	14	6	4	2	2
District 7 (121 Schools)	30	23	20	19	21	8
District 8 (6 Schools)	1	1	1	2	1	--
District 9 (21 Schools)	10	5	2	3	1	--
District 10 (37 Schools)	9	8	13	4	1	2
District 11 (47 Schools)	3	10	9	10	4	11
District 12 (41 Schools)	1	5	9	10	6	10
All Districts (553 Schools)	86	98	91	94	95	89