Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

[DawgUp]

Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

As much as I don't like T.A. for many different reasons (I did my student teaching under him), I don't think it's fair to say he can't develop talent. Does he use talent that started out elsewhere? Absolutely, however to think this is the only place that is happening is ridiculous. Even GVSU did have plenty of guys who started elsewhere and transferred to GVSU. Among the ones I recall were Finnerty, Curt Anes' bother who was a full back at Michigan who later left school and finally joined his brother at GVSU. Prior to the national title years we had a QB from EMU who went on to play in the CFL if I recall.

D2 is where the guys who are getting PT at D1 schools often drop to get PT. I find no fault in any coach at the FCS or DII level who uses transfers in his starting lineup. Your job as coach is to get the best available talent on the field.

No if we want to talk about T.A.'s liberal use of the transfer rules at the H.S. level. We may have a different discussion, but that's for another time and place.

Also, in my opinion, T.A. was the reason Ferris won that game, not the players on the field. T.A. flat out outcoached Mitchell in that game.

Nice to see someone speak reasonably. Let's not forget coaches are in the business to win games and move on to the next big thing. They'll take talent anyway they can get it, unless they're already at a one of the bigger schools. GV had D1 transfers on their team back when I played in the 90's. So did Ashland. Used to be based on the coaches relationships, sending a trouble kid to a smaller school when they flamed out or got in trouble.

Now these kids are like free agents. I don't blame them, you're window to go pro and make generational wealth is only so big...do what you have to and try to make it, if not hopefully they can do something with the degree they get.

[BeachinLaker]

Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

As much as I don't like T.A. for many different reasons (I did my student teaching under him), I don't think it's fair to say he can't develop talent. Does he use talent that started out elsewhere? Absolutely, however to think this is the only place that is happening is ridiculous. Even GVSU did have plenty of guys who started elsewhere and transferred to GVSU. Among the ones I recall were Finnerty, Curt Anes' bother who was a full back at Michigan who later left school and finally joined his brother at GVSU. Prior to the national title years we had a QB from EMU who went on to play in the CFL if I recall.

D2 is where the guys who are getting PT at D1 schools often drop to get PT. I find no fault in any coach at the FCS or DII level who uses transfers in his starting lineup. Your job as coach is to get the best available talent on the field.

No if we want to talk about T.A.'s liberal use of the transfer rules at the H.S. level. We may have a different discussion, but that's for another time and place.

Also, in my opinion, T.A. was the reason Ferris won that game, not the players on the field. T.A. flat out outcoached Mitchell in that game.

I think you're overselling how often GVSU has used transfers. Compared to TA at Ferris, we look like Hillsdale - especially under Mitchell. Like Kle said, this year is an anomaly for us. At QB, only two have been transfers in the last 18 years. Anes, Iciek, Parling, and Williams have all come up through the system. Only Finnerty and McMahon were transfers. At RB, until now only Aston Martin has been a key contributor on the ground until this year with Moss. Berezik, Sherrod, Robinson, Jackson, Ratay, Spencer, Carter, etc. were all organic. Save for the occasional WR, most of our biggest yardage gainers have come up through the system.

Also, you're not the first former student teacher under TA that has told me they developed a distaste for him after teaching with him.

[Irish1916]

Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

Nice to see someone speak reasonably. Let's not forget coaches are in the business to win games and move on to the next big thing. They'll take talent anyway they can get it, unless they're already at a one of the bigger schools. GV had D1 transfers on their team back when I played in the 90's. So did Ashland. Used to be based on the coaches relationships, sending a trouble kid to a smaller school when they flamed out or got in trouble.

Now these kids are like free agents. I don't blame them, you're window to go pro and make generational wealth is only so big...do what you have to and try to make it, if not hopefully they can do something with the degree they get.

It appears the athlete in question only played in 3 of the 4 games he suited up for. I went on the Ferris website to see how many minutes this player actually played in each game but the box score does not indicate the amount of time played. While I am a GV fan I do not want to see a conference title won by what may be a legitimate oversight by a compliance officer if there is one at Ferris. TA's problem is going to be if he has had issues with NCAA before, the amount of time this kid played in the games and how was the infraction discovered and reported. If there is not a compliance officer at Ferris this could also play into the issue. What would be unfortunate is if the NCAA drags its feet in investigating this and then just before playoffs rules that Ferris should forfeit the games the athlete played in. I also agree that TA has out coached MM in almost every game they coached against each other. As for the number of D1 transfers that have played at GV there are more than some people on this thread think and some of those have contributed to the 4 national titles GV has won.

[Redwing]

Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

It appears the athlete in question only played in 3 of the 4 games he suited up for. I went on the Ferris website to see how many minutes this player actually played in each game but the box score does not indicate the amount of time played. While I am a GV fan I do not want to see a conference title won by what may be a legitimate oversight by a compliance officer if there is one at Ferris. TA's problem is going to be if he has had issues with NCAA before, the amount of time this kid played in the games and how was the infraction discovered and reported. If there is not a compliance officer at Ferris this could also play into the issue. What would be unfortunate is if the NCAA drags its feet in investigating this and then just before playoffs rules that Ferris should forfeit the games the athlete played in. I also agree that TA has out coached MM in almost every game they coached against each other. As for the number of D1 transfers that have played at GV there are more than some people on this thread think and some of those have contributed to the 4 national titles GV has won.

As I asked on the other thread, how was it discovered? I mean, it seems a bit odd that 4 games in, someone just thought, hmm, maybe this kid isn't eligible? Something isn't adding up.. especially since it sounded like the student was told from elsewhere that he would need to sit a year (at least I thought that is the case.) No matter, FSU stated that it's a complicated issue. So if it's complicated, wouldn't one run it by the conference or NCAA? I mean why risk a non-compliance unless one is trying to keep the signing quiet for some reason?

And I also don't understand how Ferris is requesting the student to be reinstated. Is that to allow him to have the clock running now so that he can play next season? Surely, they aren't asking permission for him to play this season.

[Redwing]

Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

As much as I don't like T.A. for many different reasons (I did my student teaching under him), I don't think it's fair to say he can't develop talent. Does he use talent that started out elsewhere? Absolutely, however to think this is the only place that is happening is ridiculous. Even GVSU did have plenty of guys who started elsewhere and transferred to GVSU. Among the ones I recall were Finnerty, Curt Anes' bother who was a full back at Michigan who later left school and finally joined his brother at GVSU. Prior to the national title years we had a QB from EMU who went on to play in the CFL if I recall.

D2 is where the guys who are getting PT at D1 schools often drop to get PT. I find no fault in any coach at the FCS or DII level who uses transfers in his starting lineup. Your job as coach is to get the best available talent on the field.

No if we want to talk about T.A.'s liberal use of the transfer rules at the H.S. level. We may have a different discussion, but that's for another time and place.

Also, in my opinion, T.A. was the reason Ferris won that game, not the players on the field. T.A. flat out outcoached Mitchell in that game.

Not the players on the field? Come on dude. I'm as big of fan as any, and I guarantee you those picks rest on Williams' arm. And there are a handful of other plays where the GV player admits they messed up. They were coached, but for some reason didn't do the deed. That wasn't on Mitchell. Sure everything comes up to the coach, I get that, but flat outcoached? Whatever. And if that fake FG attempt would have been successful would you still claim TA flat outcoached MM? It yes, no need to answer. I surrender.

[dvaara]

Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

GV only very recently has begun using transfers more liberally. In 2001-2007ish, when GV was winning titles, transfers were pretty rare. Maybe one or two seeing any significant playing time. I mean I guess you can count Cullen Finnerty as a transfer technically, since he came from Toledo, but he never played there. Anyway, just responding to your asking about GV's team make-up during national championships. I'm not as familiar with the 2002 and 2003 teams since I wasn't there, but at least in 2005 and 2006, you had Cullen (technically), and then I guess Derrick Jones was a JuCo transfer, and Aston Martin. So I mean there were 1 or 2, but I don't think there was ever a "handful" of transfers being utilized by GV. This year's team may be the most transfer-heavy team GV has ever used.

keyonta marshall was also a transfer (hawaii i believe)...but overall i agree with you

[dvaara]

Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

As much as I don't like T.A. for many different reasons (I did my student teaching under him), I don't think it's fair to say he can't develop talent. Does he use talent that started out elsewhere? Absolutely, however to think this is the only place that is happening is ridiculous. Even GVSU did have plenty of guys who started elsewhere and transferred to GVSU. Among the ones I recall were Finnerty, Curt Anes' bother who was a full back at Michigan who later left school and finally joined his brother at GVSU. Prior to the national title years we had a QB from EMU who went on to play in the CFL if I recall.

D2 is where the guys who are getting PT at D1 schools often drop to get PT. I find no fault in any coach at the FCS or DII level who uses transfers in his starting lineup. Your job as coach is to get the best available talent on the field.

No if we want to talk about T.A.'s liberal use of the transfer rules at the H.S. level. We may have a different discussion, but that's for another time and place.

Also, in my opinion, T.A. was the reason Ferris won that game, not the players on the field. T.A. flat out outcoached Mitchell in that game.

kwame mccinnon was the emu transfer...i didnt realize he played in the cfl though

[champgymusa]

Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

I dont care how many transfers any school has...just follow the rules...not all that hard if you can read and as a coach you take tests on these things...and the schools compliance officers also have a hand in all of this..again...just follow the rules.

[DaleDude]

Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

Compared to TA at Ferris, we look like Hillsdale - especially under Mitchell.

Explain, please, BeachinLaker.

[BeachinLaker]

Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

Compared to TA at Ferris, we look like Hillsdale - especially under Mitchell.

Explain, please, BeachinLaker.

Hillsdale isn't known for filling its roster with transfer players and it surely is not known for taking players with questionable pasts. While GV takes more transfers than Hillsdale, it has historically taken far less under Mitchell than TA at Ferris and has had far stricter academic and background requirements than previous coaches dealt with - much like Hillsdale but obviously to a lesser degree.

[Redwing]

Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

Looks like Xerris did get 4 games nullified, though I still haven't seen anything official, other than a comment on the PO seedings. However, has anyone heard the status of the ineligible player? Is he done? Any Xerris fan know anything? It's been almost suspiciously quiet about what was or wasn't enforced or penalties handed out..

TIA

[KleShreen]

Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

Looks like Xerris did get 4 games nullified, though I still haven't seen anything official, other than a comment on the PO seedings. However, has anyone heard the status of the ineligible player? Is he done? Any Xerris fan know anything? It's been almost suspiciously quiet about what was or wasn't enforced or penalties handed out..

TIA

In the playoff selection video the chair of the committee said the nullification penalty was applied to four games and that's why Ferris dropped from #1 to #2. That was all he said about it, though.

[DawgUp]

Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

In the playoff selection video the chair of the committee said the nullification penalty was applied to four games and that's why Ferris dropped from #1 to #2. That was all he said about it, though.

Haven't heard anything about the kid. Assuming NCAA may rule on that after the season. Hope he get's to play somewhere, maybe at a NAIA school if not D2. Family can push they received bad info from compliance office and acted on that info.

[Redwing]

Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

In the playoff selection video the chair of the committee said the nullification penalty was applied to four games and that's why Ferris dropped from #1 to #2. That was all he said about it, though.

Yea, I heard that. So the only thing the NCAA or conference communicates is through the Comm. chair? Uh, that's ok for the seeding, but what is the player's status? That's not the role of the Comm. chair.. that is the role of the Conf. and NCAA.

[Redwing]

Re: Ferris May Have to Forfeit Four

Haven't heard anything about the kid. Assuming NCAA may rule on that after the season. Hope he get's to play somewhere, maybe at a NAIA school if not D2. Family can push they received bad info from compliance office and acted on that info.

Well, XSU did petition to reinstate him. That's why I'm asking. Is the deal closed? Nothing from the authorities... pretty bush league IMO.