First Set of Seedings

[Redwing]

Re: First Set of Seedings

And that institution is _________ ?

GV

[KleShreen]

Re: First Set of Seedings

OK, you seem to be plugged in. Is there are reason to be so certain that no action will come before season's end? Honestly, if I were Xsu, I'd prefer if this was resolved ASAP. And FWIW, I suspect that even if they do forfeit those games, or whatever it is called, they will still get into the POs and be able to make a statement on the field.

Now if one wants to argue that no punishment will be imposed on the games/records, etc, and only fines, that's a different story for me. If that's the case, I hope it drags on for months.

I'm not plugged in at all. The vast majority of forfeits via NCAA sanctions have been levied years after the fact. I can't think of a single time where playing an ineligible player ever resulted in forfeitures being determined during that same season as play. Additionally, I'm pretty sure that is a last resort for the NCAA. As in an institutional control failure. They're not going to do that with a back-up DT who played in garbage time. They don't care. They're not going to torpedo the top team in the country's season because of that. It wouldn't make any sense. They're just gonna be told don't do it again, and maybe some coach won't be allowed to recruit for a month or two is my guess.

[Redwing]

Re: First Set of Seedings

I'm not plugged in at all. The vast majority of forfeits via NCAA sanctions have been levied years after the fact. I can't think of a single time where playing an ineligible player ever resulted in forfeitures being determined during that same season as play. Additionally, I'm pretty sure that is a last resort for the NCAA. As in an institutional control failure. They're not going to do that with a back-up DT who played in garbage time. They don't care. They're not going to torpedo the top team in the country's season because of that. It wouldn't make any sense. They're just gonna be told don't do it again, and maybe some coach won't be allowed to recruit for a month or two is my guess.

I thought I read that it happened to some D2 Basketball team (southern one???) just last season. The team couldn't qualify for the PO's. All I recall was that it was about player eligibility... not sure what made him/them ineligible. I thought it was in the context of this issue since Xsu won the championship and said team might have competed for it. I did some brief search and did notice that a handful of D-1 basketball teams couldn't compete in postseason but I think it was mostly due to academics. Still, they ruled "in season."

[BeachinLaker]

Re: First Set of Seedings

I'm not plugged in at all. The vast majority of forfeits via NCAA sanctions have been levied years after the fact. I can't think of a single time where playing an ineligible player ever resulted in forfeitures being determined during that same season as play. Additionally, I'm pretty sure that is a last resort for the NCAA. As in an institutional control failure. They're not going to do that with a back-up DT who played in garbage time. They don't care. They're not going to torpedo the top team in the country's season because of that. It wouldn't make any sense. They're just gonna be told don't do it again, and maybe some coach won't be allowed to recruit for a month or two is my guess.

But...Most of these types of issues are not actually discovered until after the season in question. Hence the punishment coming after the fact. If Ferris committed a violation that results in them having to vacate wins (which would affect their ability to make the playoffs) why would the NCAA let this drag out until after Ferris has made the playoffs and beaten teams en route to a championship only to go back later and say they shouldn't have been there in the first place? In doing so, they remove any chance of the next team up making the playoff and they remove teams from the playoffs that should have been playing a different opponent altogether. The ball is in the court of the NCAA to rule on a black and white issue. There isn't any gray area here. There is a rule against playing an ineligible player. There is also a rule for what happens to a team when they do so. Why needlessly drag it out? And why go against your own rules just because the player was a backup or because the team is #2 in the country?

[KleShreen]

Re: First Set of Seedings

But...Most of these types of issues are not actually discovered until after the season in question. Hence the punishment coming after the fact. If Ferris committed a violation that results in them having to vacate wins (which would affect their ability to make the playoffs) why would the NCAA let this drag out until after Ferris has made the playoffs and beaten teams en route to a championship only to go back later and say they shouldn't have been there in the first place? In doing so, they remove any chance of the next team up making the playoff and they remove teams from the playoffs that should have been playing a different opponent altogether. The ball is in the court of the NCAA to rule on a black and white issue. There isn't any gray area here. There is a rule against playing an ineligible player. There is also a rule for what happens to a team when they do so. Why needlessly drag it out? And why go against your own rules just because the player was a backup or because the team is #2 in the country?

That is exactly the point. The NCAA doesn't want to get involved in telling a team 3/4 of the way done with their season that they all of a sudden can't go to the playoffs. Isn't going to happen. The NCAA doesn't have the balls to do something like that. Never have. The media storm around it wouldn't be worth it for the NCAA or the GLIAC.

[Predatory Primates]

Re: First Set of Seedings

This is D2. There are no media storms.

[BillyGV]

Re: First Set of Seedings

This is D2. There are no media storms.

my thoughts exactly when I read the post - but I believe he may have been referring to local press firestorm - certainly not national

[Wallst]

Re: First Set of Seedings

edit

[Wallst]

Re: First Set of Seedings

Look I'm not making any excuses, Ferris screwed up, they will and should be punished in some sort of way. However, it is funny to read the commentary on this issue. Here are the facts:
1. Ferris played an ineligible player - This is a kid who got into U of M, so he isn't the type of player or person that most associate with TA.
2. This is above the Athletic Department. I know it is difficult to understand how things operate at Ferris when you are a fan of a school that has everything, or close to everything - But most outside the athletic dept. at FSU wish athletics outside of Hockey didn't exist. It is an absolute joke how things are run and are funded there, if you all knew more about the situation and the rise of Ferris St Football, you would think highly of the job that the coaching staff has done. Google what their weight room looks like. Google what the sports complex looks like. I mean these literally have to be the worst athletic facilities at any level of sports in the state of Michigan. Most of their sports operating budgets are less than singular coaches make at other schools. And they win. That's what bothers everyone. If you think it's because a bunch of illegal stuff is going on, then you're wrong, because again most inside that school don't care enough to help athletics. Do they have lower admission standards? Yes, compared to Hillsdale and GV, but not far off if at all from a lot of other schools in the league and all of the players on the field still have to be NCAA eligible anyway. I believe Ferris is at the top of Academic All Americans under TA as well, so that really throws a bone in your theories.
3. TA's past "transgressions" - JC Football is operated by the NJCAA so there is no collaboration with the NCAA, in fact I don't even believe there are actual people that run JC Football. The "housing scandal" is such a two sided issue that it is not even funny, and if you read in to the articles you would find out that the counter lawsuit against the property management company actually sided in GRCC favor as they were trying to put these kids in condemned housing - which is why a lot of bills were left unpaid once people started figuring out that they were being way overcharged for illegal housing. I honestly don't even believe TA had any idea what was going on with the housing situation fully. But if you want to add that to his list then it is what it is, that situation was used as a scapegoat to shut down the program there - which has since backfired on GRCC because of an incredible drop in enrollment, a lot of people lost their jobs.
4. Using High school recruiting situations against TA is an absolute joke. Am I saying he didnt have kid transfer in? No. But if that is the case, then ANY succesful HS program in this state is just as guilty, and it isn't even pinpointed to just football. If you think every kid at Lowell, EGR, Rockford, Cass Tech, King, Oak Park, Southfield, GR Christian, Clarkston, etc. was born and raised in those districts you are just an idiot. I've been around the game long enough to know that a lot of this isn't even due to the HS coaches, a lot of it is driven by the parents and them thinking the best opportunities for their kids to get scholarships is to move them into successful programs. Heck, this isn't even a Michigan problem, it is nationwide, so is every single coach a "dirty" coach then? It would take less time to list the successful, "clean" coaches.
5. TA takes over trash programs, he has his whole career, and turns them around. I can bet my life on the fact that if he took over at a SVSU type school he would have already won a national title because he could sell beautiful stuff to go along with his schemes and his relationships with his players. Also, GRCC, like EVERY OTHER JC program, is a second chance place. So using the caliber of character of the kids he had there against him is just idiotic. Watch Last Chance U, it is the same thing, that's what JC programs are for. If you are against that, then be against it, but be against it for everyone, not just a singular focus on TA and what he did at GRCC. If you are going to use the facts, use all of them, not just the half truth ones that boost your arguments.
This isn't me saying that Ferris St Football should be given a free card on this current situation, it isn't at all, they should and will be punished. But a lot of your arguments are just dumb because you only use partial information. And again, ineligible? Yes. Impact player? Not this year at least. So any plays he played literally did not matter in the outcomes of any games. Honestly why would they purposely cheat in that situation?

Thank your Mrs. TA and welcome to the board.

[North Ala Screwdriver]

Re: First Set of Seedings

That is exactly the point. The NCAA doesn't want to get involved in telling a team 3/4 of the way done with their season that they all of a sudden can't go to the playoffs. Isn't going to happen. The NCAA doesn't have the balls to do something like that. Never have. The media storm around it wouldn't be worth it for the NCAA or the GLIAC.

[KleShreen]

Re: First Set of Seedings

This is D2. There are no media storms.

The area newspaper and three of the four local TV stations all cover Ferris and GVSU regularly. If Ferris had to forfeit any games, it would be the top story on all of those outlets, as well as in the Detroit Free Press.

[GVLakerFan24]

Re: First Set of Seedings

This is D2. There are no media storms.

The Grand Rapids paper would cover it for sure, and since Jayru Campbell is a local Detroit kid who's had a very turbulent path to Ferris, the Detroit papers have been covering Ferris much more than normal. Still, yeah, any media "storm" would not be anything like a storm involving MSU or UM

[KleShreen]

Re: First Set of Seedings

Hey guys. Good news. Delta State finally won a game.

[GrifFan]

The area newspaper and three of the four local TV stations all cover Ferris and GVSU regularly. If Ferris had to forfeit any games, it would be the top story on all of those outlets, as well as in the Detroit Free Press.

[KleShreen]

Re: First Set of Seedings

One of the biggest media markets in D-II.