Ashland To the GMAC Must Happen

[Brandon]

Valid point, although I don't think Ashland taking off for an easier division is quite as simplistic as that. How much does the payoff committee really take into account strength of schedule? .

Although I don't think it's necessarily indicative of a true strength of schedule, Wayne did have the 2nd best weighted OWP in the country.

.757 Commerce
.572 Wayne
.571 Valdosta

[Brandon]

This is hilarious to knock tiffin and the GMAC considering Ashland was mandhandled by Findlay which in turn ODU beat Findlay and tiffin beat both ODU and Findlay.... the GMAC is not as bad as one would think there is a big drop off between 1-4 and 5-8 he's. Hell Findlay almost knocked off your big bad #2 team on the road had they not gone for two..Hillsdale will get solid again. I'm sorry but you are acting like the gliac is a straight gauntlet every week with NMU and tech and northwood. The gliac is not what it used to be getting one team in.... trust me the GMAC would welcome Ashland in with open arms plenty of teams that can beat/compete with the.

Comparative scores are funny things.

Findlay came within a hair of upsetting Ferris and beat Ashland pretty badly, but only beat 1-10 Northwood by 10 points.

From what I can tell, the GLIAC was 5-3 against the GMAC and 14-8 out of conference.

[KleShreen]

When odu was In the GLIAC they won their division. And played well into December 2015... Findlay and hillsdale have also faired well In the gliac. Tiffin is coming on strong as of late. This thread is just hilarious like as soon as Ashland moves to the GMAC they will go to the playoffs. You guys act like they took bottom feeder teams from the GLIAC and created the GMAC. False. Ashland has to actually win vs GMAC opponents and they haven't done it the last two yrs running...these teams left for budget and traveling purposes... it was something like 15 hrs for ODU to go up to the UP. leaving on a wed missing class. Can't do thst. honestly the GMAC would love
to have Ashland in the conference but would not be a cake walk

I mean....they did. Walsh, Lake Erie, Findlay, Tiffin, Malone when they still had football, were all bottom half of the GLIAC teams, regularly. ODU had moderate success and Hillsdale had moderate success, but not consistent. All of a sudden they all run away to the GMAC, host home games in the playoffs, and look like world-beaters up until they face a decent team. Teams that couldn't win in the GLIAC, run to the GMAC, and take up their role as pigs with lipstick when the playoffs come. Tiffin was also coming on strong when they first came in to the GLIAC. They were 10-1 and 9-2 before they got to the GLIAC, and then promptly went 1-10, 0-11, 1-10, 0-11, 3-8, 2-9, 2-9, 5-6, 5-6, 8-3, 6-5, and then move to the GMAC and go 9-2 in year one and now 9-1 in year two, and they're going to get roasted in the playoffs. Congrats on getting a trophy, though, I guess.

[Scott Miles]

I don't think "having more success in football" was anywhere close to the top 10, 15 or 20 reasons why any of those schools left the GLIAC.

[RetiredAU]

First...I totally agree things need to change, but I'm not sure changing conferences is the most important.

The number 1 reason this season was a disaster was Owens sticking with Austin Brenner. I can't remember the last time AU has had a Qb throw more interceptions then touchdowns (14-12), and a completion percentage of 54%. The kid shouldn't be playing on the JV team let alone starting for this team. I said this earlier in the year that as long as Austin Brenner is the QB at AU they will never win anything. The better news is we didn't recruit a sing QB this year, so there is no back up, or anyone pushing Brenner.

As far as this year defense, we lost our whole secondary about 4 weeks in, haven't seen a unit get beat up as much as they did this year. I wouldn't think that would be something that will carry over.

Overall Owens needs to be better. He is coasting right now, and it cost this program.

I have to disagree with you on Coach Owens coasting this year and Brenner at QB. Will Brenner ever be Cundiff, Housewright or Tarnowski maybe not, but who would have thought Tarnowski was going to turn into the record setting QB that he did after his sophomore year. Tarnowski was 13-7 after two years, Brenner is 13-8. The one thing that helped him was that AU had a strong offensive line during his tenure and this years offensive was probably the weakest I have seen AU field in quite some time. It didn't help the starting center was out for half the year and both tackles were battling through injuries all year. Brenner by himself basically brought us back from 35-7 in the 4th against Wayne by himself. Finished with 300+ passing yards and 200+ rushing yards. The kid doesn't give up and that what Owens really likes about the kid. Tarnowski had those same attributes. Lets not forget he was Freshman of the year last year as well. Maybe it was a sophomore slump maybe the issues on the offensive line played a role. As far as defense, I can't remember the last time if ever a Tim Rose led defense gave up more that 20 pts per game but if you follow the team very closely like I do, you would know that during the last week of camp before the Indy game, we lost our two starting CB's one who was a transfer and getting attention from the NFL to season ending injuries. We then lost our two starting safeties during week 5. Go back and watch the film, we had 6 different players playing in different spots the last 6 games of the year. That takes a toll on a defense. Luckily AU has not experienced a year full of significant injuries like they did this year and with the known problems on the offensive line, the banged up secondary, I think a 7-4 3rd place GLIAC finish was pretty darn good and Ill take it. You could say Coach Owens and his staff coached their tails off getting the team to respond after a lot of adversity. We also found our RB (Washington) for the next 3 years who should win Freshman of the year. Here's to a great off season and spring. Speaking with the players and coaches Saturday after the game, they are hungry to get things rolling like they have been and excited about what the future holds. Go Eagles!!

[EastStroud13]

I think if you look at the list of champions, almost all of them come from a tough conference.

2018 - Gulf South
2017 - Lone Star
2016 - MIAA
2015 - MIAA
2014 - RMAC
2013 - MIAA
2012 - Gulf South
2011 - MIAA
2010 - NSIC
2009 - MIAA
2008 - NSIC
2007 - Gulf South
2006 - GLIAC
2005 - GLIAC
2004 - Gulf South
2003 - GLIAC
2002 - GLIAC
2001 - NCC
2000 - Gulf South
1999 - MIAA
1998 - MIAA
1997 - NCC
1996 - NCC
1995 - Gulf South
1994 - Gulf South
1993 - Gulf South
1992 - Gulf South
1991 - MIAA
1990 - NCC
1989 - Gulf South

That's the last 30 years.

What I'm getting out of this is that if you're a GLIAC team that's not Grand Valley, it's 0-fer 30 years in terms of championships. Great conferences have great teams, great teams win championships. There are very few conferences with multiple different championship winners.

It is a cop-out. Why not just become an independent and schedule every crappy team you can possibly find, go undefeated every year, and take your chances in the playoffs against actual competition?

I understand why they do it. And it is good business for the athletic departments. Because there's not enough national knowledge about D-II to know otherwise. There's a reason why Boise State and Western Michigan and UCF weren't playing for the national championship when they were undefeated. Because everyone knows they can't compete with the top teams from the power conferences. That same delineation exists in D-II, but not enough people know, so everyone is on the same level playing field and have to prove it in the playoffs, which is fine. Like I said, if schools want the cakewalk to the playoffs, then by all means, go ahead. But when you get demolished in the playoffs by a team with a worse record from a better conference, the fans of D-II football should understand why. It is just funny to me that teams who were previously in "good" football conferences leave those conferences, go to lesser conferences, and then start bragging about how good they are all over every type of media, while ignoring that they couldn't get it done in their previous conference so they ran away. "Other schools in this new conference better align with our university makeup" lol. No they don't. You just want to be in a conference where you're better at football.

I mean, I agree with you to an extent. I just don't see a reason to discourage teams looking for conferences in which they can succeed and make the playoffs. What's the point, just to feel superior? Who cares in the end, let teams do what they want and the cream will rise in the playoffs.

[washedUPholder]

There has always been talk of Ashland bailing out of the GLIAC over the years. IMHO they're not going anywhere however I do think they hold that threat of leaving over the head of the Conference. If they were to leave I don't know how the conference could exist...would really stress the baseball/softball/soccer programs with scheduling and travel. In regards to the GMAC/GLIAC comparison, I no longer believe the GLIAC is one of the stronger conferences in the country. But with that being said I still believe it's slightly ahead of the GMAC. I'm still surprised that Tiffin came out of there...thought Findlay would be champs before the season but that's why you play the games.

As a side thought...I wonder what the conference perception/strength would look like now if it were Tech and NMU bailing instead of Hillsdale/Findlay/ODU/Tiffin/etc. I know every program hates crossing the bridge to the U.P. once a season but the Yoopers have to cross it half the season. Takes a toll on athletic departments.

[unc4life]

I have to disagree with you on Coach Owens coasting this year and Brenner at QB. Will Brenner ever be Cundiff, Housewright or Tarnowski maybe not, but who would have thought Tarnowski was going to turn into the record setting QB that he did after his sophomore year. Tarnowski was 13-7 after two years, Brenner is 13-8. The one thing that helped him was that AU had a strong offensive line during his tenure and this years offensive was probably the weakest I have seen AU field in quite some time. It didn't help the starting center was out for half the year and both tackles were battling through injuries all year. Brenner by himself basically brought us back from 35-7 in the 4th against Wayne by himself. Finished with 300+ passing yards and 200+ rushing yards. The kid doesn't give up and that what Owens really likes about the kid. Tarnowski had those same attributes. Lets not forget he was Freshman of the year last year as well. Maybe it was a sophomore slump maybe the issues on the offensive line played a role. As far as defense, I can't remember the last time if ever a Tim Rose led defense gave up more that 20 pts per game but if you follow the team very closely like I do, you would know that during the last week of camp before the Indy game, we lost our two starting CB's one who was a transfer and getting attention from the NFL to season ending injuries. We then lost our two starting safeties during week 5. Go back and watch the film, we had 6 different players playing in different spots the last 6 games of the year. That takes a toll on a defense. Luckily AU has not experienced a year full of significant injuries like they did this year and with the known problems on the offensive line, the banged up secondary, I think a 7-4 3rd place GLIAC finish was pretty darn good and Ill take it. You could say Coach Owens and his staff coached their tails off getting the team to respond after a lot of adversity. We also found our RB (Washington) for the next 3 years who should win Freshman of the year. Here's to a great off season and spring. Speaking with the players and coaches Saturday after the game, they are hungry to get things rolling like they have been and excited about what the future holds. Go Eagles!!

You either have no clue about football, or just blindly following Owens if you think Austin Brenner is every going to be a decent QB at Ashland. You want to know what Tranowski did his sophomore year at AU? 30 TD's 10 Int and a 62% completion percentage. That's not even in the same ball park as the crap Brenner put up this year. I have literally in all my years watching AU never seen a kid that could not throw a football the way Brenner has the last two year. You can see it on every throw its just not there. It has zero to do with the Oline, or the receivers, the kid just can't throw the football.

Owens was quoted in the news paper, that the goal for the game last week was to throw the football,and that after the first half they scrapped it because Brenner couldn't do it.

[Brandon]

What I'm getting out of this is that if you're a GLIAC team that's not Grand Valley, it's 0-fer 30 years in terms of championships. Great conferences have great teams, great teams win championships. There are very few conferences with multiple different championship winners.

Sure, but even if you expand the list to include teams/conferences that made the championship game, it doesn't get much better (margin of loss in parentheses).

MIAA - 8
GSC - 5
GLIAC - 4
SAC - 4 (-15, -6,-18, -9)
PSAC - 2(-29, -7)
LSC - 1
NSIC - 1
NCC - 1
MEC - 1 (-27)
CIAA - 1 (-28)
IND - 1 (-51)

I just think it shows that iron sharpens iron or whatever the saying might be.

[Brandon]

I don't think "having more success in football" was anywhere close to the top 10, 15 or 20 reasons why any of those schools left the GLIAC.

For sure. The 12 or so other sports are certainly a factor depending on the institution.

[EastStroud13]

I just think it shows that iron sharpens iron or whatever the saying might be.

To an extent, but it's way overblown. There are very few programs out there that are championship contenders by virtue of just being in a tough conference. Championship-caliber teams are great because of many other reasons combined with being battle-tested..

[Brandon]

There are very few conferences with multiple different championship winners.

That got me curious....

GSC (5)
NCC (3)
GLIAC (3)
MIAA (2)
LSC (2)

[Brandon]

To an extent, but it's way overblown. There are very few programs out there that are championship contenders by virtue of just being in a tough conference.

I agree. Being in a tough conference does not turn an average team into a championship contender in a single year. It can, however, change a program over time simply by forcing them to step up to simply compete in conference. There are potential championship contending programs that don't reach their potential because they're not playing tough schedules.

Thanks for a fun discussion.

[oilerftbll]

I mean....they did. Walsh, Lake Erie, Findlay, Tiffin, Malone when they still had football, were all bottom half of the GLIAC teams, regularly. ODU had moderate success and Hillsdale had moderate success, but not consistent. All of a sudden they all run away to the GMAC, host home games in the playoffs, and look like world-beaters up until they face a decent team. Teams that couldn't win in the GLIAC, run to the GMAC, and take up their role as pigs with lipstick when the playoffs come. Tiffin was also coming on strong when they first came in to the GLIAC. They were 10-1 and 9-2 before they got to the GLIAC, and then promptly went 1-10, 0-11, 1-10, 0-11, 3-8, 2-9, 2-9, 5-6, 5-6, 8-3, 6-5, and then move to the GMAC and go 9-2 in year one and now 9-1 in year two, and they're going to get roasted in the playoffs. Congrats on getting a trophy, though, I guess.

Man, talk about SEC's little brother with some posters.....

The GLIAC is a tougher conference than the GMAC as a whole, there is no denying that, but you also have four state-funded universities in the GLIAC. Those schools should win more often than not against private universities based on resource allocation. Aside from Ashland and ODU, what private universities have been able to show consistent success in the GLIAC since 2000? Findlay was never a consistent top-teir team, but they weren't a regular bottom feeder either. There were definitely lean years, particularly the end of Simrell's tenure and in to Wauford's tenure; but Findlay still finished over .500 8 times while in the GLIAC. As for the old GLIAC teams just running to an easier bracket and then not competing with real teams, as already outlined, Findlay nearly beat FSU at home (granted they were without Campbell), Findlay also nearly beat ND on the road. Findlay beat Shepherd on the road in the 2017 playoffs, but lost to Assumption the next round. Last year, Hillsdale beat Kutztown in round one, but lost to Notre Dame by 5 points in round two (who nearly beat the eventual National Champs in the Final Four). Point-being, the GMAC representation for the playoffs the first two seasons, have held their own. ODU has also held their own against non-GMAC opponents. They could have had multiple playoff appearances since the first year of the GMAC, but their 9 game schedules have hurt them. I realize Tiffin winning this year is a head-scratcher to those that remember what they were before, and then during the GLIAC, but Tiffin has put a lot of money in to that football program, and have really improved. I only watched this last game of theirs, but they have a good team. We will see what happens when they get their first taste of the playoffs. The difference is, as someone else elluded to, is the week in/week out grind that the GLIAC presents. Once you get outside of the Top 4 teams in the GMAC, there is a steep drop off, and that drop off is not as prevalent in the GLIAC for sure.

[Brandon]

As much as I like us playing the best, I want my school to have a shot at the postseason and it looks like those opportunities are getting slimmer and slimmer in the GLIAC.

The opportunities were better when the Ashland team was better.

Ashland lost to Findlay 53-18. Findlay was third in the GMAC. You beat Grand Valley. They finished a game behind you. What is your thought process that leads you to believe you'd finish higher in the GMAC?