MSSU's Denver Johnson steps down

[Brandon]

Re: MSSU's Denver Johnson steps down

Yeah, that's why I kind of think they are in a comparable spot. Those 6 and 7 win teams at Southern would have trounced the horrible pre mel PO teams NW had.

I didn't see them but apparently the 1984 team was pretty good. The 1989 team lost to Pitt twice, 27-13 and 28-7.

[Brandon]

Re: MSSU's Denver Johnson steps down

You're not accounting for the terrible SBU and Lincoln teams Southern doesn't get to play anymore that Mell did ...

Mel coached against Lincoln a grant total of zero times.

But instead of Northeastern State, he was coaching against Kingsville, Abilene Christian, Saginaw Valley, Minnesota State, Nebraska-Omaha, South Dakota State, among others.

[Brandon]

Re: MSSU's Denver Johnson steps down

Lincoln dropped football after the 1989 season and didn't rejoin the MIAA until 2011. A Mel coached Northwest team never played Lincoln.

Sorry Randy, I didn't look at this before I posted.

[NWFanatic]

[Predatory Primates]

Re: MSSU's Denver Johnson steps down

I didn't see them but apparently the 1984 team was pretty good. The 1989 team lost to Pitt twice, 27-13 and 28-7.

I don't remember either game being much of a game that year. I just remember it being my first or 2nd year of college, and the year pitt moved up to D2. I also remember them learnong in the PO's that the MIAA was not up to snuff up front on the national stage.

I also remember SBU coming the closest to beating Pitt that year. Funny how the tides turned for SBU, Rolla, and Truman. They all had some decent teams back in the day.

I also remember hating all PO teams with North in their name.

North Dakota
North Dakota State
Northern Colorado
North Alabama
Northwest MO

All dealt up some heartbreaking losses to Pitt back then.

[Brandon]

Re: MSSU's Denver Johnson steps down

I don't remember either game being much of a game that year. I just remember it being my first or 2nd year of college, and the year pitt moved up to D2. I also remember them learnong in the PO's that the MIAA was not up to snuff up front on the national stage.

Back in those days Pitt could be up by 10 and in total control of the game.

I saw the 1995 Pitt/Northwest game which ended with a close score but I never felt like Northwest would win.

[libertybearcat]

Re: MSSU's Denver Johnson steps down

I didn't see them but apparently the 1984 team was pretty good. The 1989 team lost to Pitt twice, 27-13 and 28-7.

84 Team was fun to watch...well at least the parts of the games I remember!! :wink:

[Frosty]

Re: MSSU's Denver Johnson steps down

Mel coached against Lincoln a grant total of zero times.

But instead of Northeastern State, he was coaching against Kingsville, Abilene Christian, Saginaw Valley, Minnesota State, Nebraska-Omaha, South Dakota State, among others.

I realize we should all bow at the alter of Mel - especially on this messagboard. You're a Northwest guy - you're going to stick up for Mel - regardless. Point is, Northwest was not great, not bad for a long time pre-Mel, and TERRIBLE his first year. Southern was not great, not bad with Daye with the exception of one year (should have been 8-3 had Lindenwood rescheduled, but I digress), average under Tatum, and abysmal post-Daye. The HUGE difference is there are no layups in the MIAA and no opportunity to play a non-conference lay-up in the current MIAA. When Mel came in, it was Pitt State and a big dip in programs ... big, big difference.

[Brandon]

Re: MSSU's Denver Johnson steps down

I realize we should all bow at the alter of Mel - especially on this messagboard. You're a Northwest guy - you're going to stick up for Mel - regardless. Point is, Northwest was not great, not bad for a long time pre-Mel, and TERRIBLE his first year. Southern was not great, not bad with Daye with the exception of one year (should have been 8-3 had Lindenwood rescheduled, but I digress), average under Tatum, and abysmal post-Daye. The HUGE difference is there are no layups in the MIAA and no opportunity to play a non-conference lay-up in the current MIAA. When Mel came in, it was Pitt State and a big dip in programs ... big, big difference.

I usually take people's shots, but I'm not going to allow this nonsensical post today from you.

You are the one the one that brought him up. I was discussing the 10 years PREVIOUS to his arrival at Northwest and comparing them to the previous 10 years to this Missouri Southern coaching vacancy. The comparisons had nothing to do with him aside from the fact that he was one of coaches of Southern's opponents for three of those years.

I simply pointed out that twice in the 10 years before Tjeerdsma arrived, Northwest had made the playoffs as a way to illustrate that the program wasn't necessarily as bad as Southern's is right now. As for the rest, you've posted nothing else that anyone hasn't already said, including me, or that anyone has disagreed with. But since you're "a Southern guy," you got your britches in a bunch and started making irrelevant excuses.

[Predatory Primates]

Re: MSSU's Denver Johnson steps down

I was guilty of devaluing those early NW PO appearances, but thinking back, I remember that it was much harder to get in. There were less spots and no guaranteed slots for teams who got 10 wins against the sisters of the poor. If they made it in, they were probably better than I originally gave them credit for.

[GorillaBred]

Re: MSSU's Denver Johnson steps down

I was guilty of devaluing those early NW PO appearances, but thinking back, I remember that it was much harder to get in. There were less spots and no guaranteed slots for teams who got 10 wins against the sisters of the poor. If they made it in, they were probably better than I originally gave them credit for.

Yeah, I was basically thinking of NW in terms of Mel's first year and then projecting backwards. Upon further review, MoSo is clearly worse off now. Also, I'm not sure when D2 made the switch, but if NW was in D2 playoffs in 1984, I think that would've just been an 8 team field, so that's basically the position that Ferris State or Minnesota State was in last year. That's a pretty good spot to be in, although, considering the strength of the conference at the time, it might be more comparable to the position Assumption was in last year. Either way, the point is, they were clearly ahead of MoSo today, especially if you use a 10 year look back period.

[PSR]

Re: MSSU's Denver Johnson steps down

Yeah, I was basically thinking of NW in terms of Mel's first year and then projecting backwards. Upon further review, MoSo is clearly worse off now. Also, I'm not sure when D2 made the switch, but if NW was in D2 playoffs in 1984, I think that would've just been an 8 team field, so that's basically the position that Ferris State or Minnesota State was in last year. That's a pretty good spot to be in, although, considering the strength of the conference at the time, it might be more comparable to the position Assumption was in last year. Either way, the point is, they were clearly ahead of MoSo today, especially if you use a 10 year look back period.

Playoffs spots back then were the top 4 in the region not 8. It was between the MIAA, NSIC and the NCC which was the best conference in the land. Had NDSU, UNC, SDSU, USD, UNO which all were good football teams.

Much harder to make the playoffs then compared to now.

[GorillaBred]

Re: MSSU's Denver Johnson steps down

Playoffs spots back then were the top 4 in the region not 8. It was between the MIAA, NSIC and the NCC which was the best conference in the land. Had NDSU, UNC, SDSU, USD, UNO which all were good football teams.

Much harder to make the playoffs then compared to now.

That region with the MIAA, the NSIC and the NCC began in 1992. A lot of people forget this, but for 1989-1991, the region was the MIAA, the LSC and the Heartland/Midwest Conference. Pitt State played NDSU in the national semifinals in 1990. The in-region matchups for 1989-91 for Pitt State were: NW, Angelo State, Butler, East Texas State (now Commerce) and Truman.

It was sometime in the mid- to late-1980s when D2 expanded the field from 8 to 16. I think the 1984 season was still an 8 team field, so it would've in essence been the top 2 teams in the region, although I don't think they used regions in the 8 team PO field era, they just chose the best 8 teams. (I know, what a novel concept.)

Edit: I believe the pre-1992 region system had the NCC and the RMAC going west to face whatever conference used to have Portland State and UC-Davis in it. Great West Conf. maybe?

[northwest missouri state]

Re: MSSU's Denver Johnson steps down

That region with the MIAA, the NSIC and the NCC began in 1992. A lot of people forget this, but for 1989-1991, the region was the MIAA, the LSC and the Heartland/Midwest Conference. Pitt State played NDSU in the national semifinals in 1990. The in-region matchups for 1989-91 for Pitt State were: NW, Angelo State, Butler, East Texas State (now Commerce) and Truman.

It was sometime in the mid- to late-1980s when D2 expanded the field from 8 to 16. I think the 1984 season was still an 8 team field, so it would've in essence been the top 2 teams in the region, although I don't think they used regions in the 8 team PO field era, they just chose the best 8 teams. (I know, what a novel concept.)

Edit: I believe the pre-1992 region system had the NCC and the RMAC going west to face whatever conference used to have Portland State and UC-Davis in it. Great West Conf. maybe?

one of the justifications for expansion was so they could let all these bad teams in....give 'em participation ribbons & then send them home.

i think it was 2015.....we played some school from out west & won by like 50. it wasn't a snowball effect either i could not tell the diff betw them & rolla or sbu or etc. it's absurd that schools like that can get in but whatev.

oh lol & that was in the 2r so they actually won a po game before that shellacking.

[MSSU LIONS]

Re: MSSU's Denver Johnson steps down

and at some point......would like to get this thread back to where we all started.....Missouri Southern State University and their football program.