OT: Former LSC Teams That Became D1 Juggernauts

[JavsFan]

As for the burden falling on the student I guess that really depends on how much you value the experiences they get from it. I'm paying for my son to go to Oklahoma State. The athletic experiences he's had the last two years are worth ten times what we would save by him going to Hardin Simmons or Liberty. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Then have the fees be voluntary. Those who want those experiences can pay for them and not make all the students subsidize. That's true for all of the fees that are assessed - Athletic, Hospital, Orientation, Rec Sports, Student Center, Student Service, University Services. If you don't need them, you shouldn't have to pay for them.

[JavsFan]

If you're trying to sell me Hardin Simmons and Trinity over the schools I listed, I think we have different opinions on what okay is.

If your focus is primarily on the athletic experience, I guess our opinions do diverge. Trinity is one of the top rated universities in the nation year in and year out. That is doing okay IMO.

[LionFan]

If your focus is primarily on the athletic experience, I guess our opinions do diverge. Trinity is one of the top rated universities in the nation year in and year out. That is doing okay IMO.

I'm talking about progressing the university, growing, public image, etc. I don't think 90% of the people around here that I could ask would even know what Trinity is. It's a 3,000 enrollment private school, and I literally just had to google it to see where it was located.

Ask them about every school on that list I put up earlier, they know every single one. Being D1 doesn't have anything to do with being a top rated university. It's about branding, marketing, etc.

[LionFan]

Then have the fees be voluntary. Those who want those experiences can pay for them and not make all the students subsidize. That's true for all of the fees that are assessed - Athletic, Hospital, Orientation, Rec Sports, Student Center, Student Service, University Services. If you don't need them, you shouldn't have to pay for them.

In a perfect world I agree. But nothing works that way. When we pay for TV, we don't get to pick and choose which shows we want, you get a package with a bunch of crap you'll never use. But some people will be interested in those crap channels. And if you only charged the people that wanted those channels for them, theyd be too expensive for anyone to use. Same thing here. I'm not saying its a perfect model, but it's how things work unfortunately. And while not every kid will care or go to the games, they definitely do benefit from their school being more well known, obviously, in terms of the value of their degree, network, etc.

[JavsFan]

I'm talking about progressing the university, growing, public image, etc. I don't think 90% of the people around here that I could ask would even know what Trinity is. It's a 3,000 enrollment private school, and I literally just had to google it to see where it was located.

Ask them about every school on that list I put up earlier, they know every single one. Being D1 doesn't have anything to do with being a top rated university. It's about branding, marketing, etc.

Ask those same people about Nicholls State, Northwestern State, Houston Baptist, UL-Monroe, Southern, etc.

The majority of people probably can't name their elected officials, but can tell you all about the Johnny Depp/Amber Heard ****show. Just because a large part of our society is aware of something, doesn't make it more important or better.

[JavsFan]

In a perfect world I agree. But nothing works that way. When we pay for TV, we don't get to pick and choose which shows we want, you get a package with a bunch of crap you'll never use. But some people will be interested in those crap channels. And if you only charged the people that wanted those channels for them, theyd be too expensive for anyone to use. Same thing here. I'm not saying its a perfect model, but it's how things work unfortunately. And while not every kid will care or go to the games, they definitely do benefit from their school being more well known, obviously, in terms of the value of their degree, network, etc.

I'm not sure I follow. People are leaving Pay TV and moving to streaming, where they can choose what/how much they want. We cut the cord about 5 months ago and wish we had a few years back.

[WT_TKW]

In a perfect world I agree. But nothing works that way. When we pay for TV, we don't get to pick and choose which shows we want, you get a package with a bunch of crap you'll never use. But some people will be interested in those crap channels. And if you only charged the people that wanted those channels for them, theyd be too expensive for anyone to use. Same thing here. I'm not saying its a perfect model, but it's how things work unfortunately. And while not every kid will care or go to the games, they definitely do benefit from their school being more well known, obviously, in terms of the value of their degree, network, etc.

This is why I canceled my cable TV in 2009 and use an antenna and streaming. I couldn't stand the thought of MSNBC getting any of my money.

[JakeTAMUC]

Fees at Commerce EXCEED the cost of in-state tuition:

Texas Resident Total Budget	$23,976
In-State Tuition	$4,790
Other Fees	$5,030
Room and Board	$9,567
On-Campus Other Budget	$3,413
Books and Supplies	$1,176

For contrast, here is WT:

Texas Resident Total Budget	$21,806
In-State Tuition	$5,748
Other Fees	$2,708
Room and Board	$7,496
On-Campus Other Budget	$4,854
Books and Supplies	$1,000

[JavsFan]

My feelings on moving from D2 to D1 have been consistent over time. If schools can do it without burdening students and their families with the expense of doing it, then fine do it. If they cannot make the move without an increase in student subsidies, then don't. Maybe the administrators could reduce their compensation by the same percentage that student costs rise.

I remember UIW's president at the time when they were considering their move. The student survey was in favor of the move, but against increasing fees to pay for it. He played up their support for the move and totally downplayed their objection to increased fees.

[Wildcat Khan]

Ask those same people about Nicholls State, Northwestern State, Houston Baptist, UL-Monroe, Southern, etc.

The majority of people probably can't name their elected officials, but can tell you all about the Johnny Depp/Amber Heard ****show. Just because a large part of our society is aware of something, doesn't make it more important or better.

I remember once going to the DQ in Ellensburg and there were people that were discussing "Is there a university here"? The road they were on led straight to it and there were signs on the interstate for CWU, but even then they didn't know that CWU was in Ellensburg. This is also when Prime Sports Northwest/Fox Sports Northwest (now Root Sports) gave the CWU scores along with the D1 schools in Oregon and Washington.

[Goods]

It is sad to see how far WT has fallen. I remember how good their games against CWU were, even if CWU lost the more important one by more than they lost to Montana that year.

That was 2008 and it's still too soon to discuss that game at WT in "The 'Bro". We had an incredible team that year and even then, I'm still wondering what the heck would've happened if we had played ACU since that next week ACU beat WT 349 to 300 in the second round. I might be slightly off on that score, but you catch my drift.

[WT_TKW]

That was 2008 and it's still too soon to discuss that game at WT in "The 'Bro". We had an incredible team that year and even then, I'm still wondering what the heck would've happened if we had played ACU since that next week ACU beat WT 349 to 300 in the second round. I might be slightly off on that score, but you catch my drift.

That was a great game. I was there. The sky was filled with footballs. 49-42.

ACU had this back named Bernard Scott. He was REALLY good. ACU had a very good QB and some good receivers. Your recollection of the score is about right. ;)

Scott played in the NFL for 5 seasons , and averaged about 4 yards per carry. I did not understand why he wasn't used more, but he had a reputation as a bad boy, even before he came to ACU.

[JavsFan]

That was a great game. I was there. The sky was filled with footballs. 49-42.

ACU had this back named Bernard Scott. He was REALLY good. ACU had a very good QB and some good receivers. Your recollection of the score is about right. ;)

Scott played in the NFL for 5 seasons , and averaged about 4 yards per carry. I did not understand why he wasn't used more, but he had a reputation as a bad boy, even before he came to ACU.

Wasn't that the 93-68 game?

WT averaged a very respectable 7.7 yards per play. ACU averaged an unreal 14.5. The teams combined for over 1,500 yards, ACU punted once all day.

[WT_TKW]

Wasn't that the 93-68 game?

WT averaged a very respectable 7.7 yards per play. ACU averaged an unreal 14.5. The teams combined for over 1,500 yards, ACU punted once all day.

Yes, that was it. ACU was lateraling at the end of the game on a kickoff return so they could try to run up the score more, which was classless. WT only lost 2 games that year, both to ACU.

Here's the Bernard Scott story. I had forgotten he won the Harland Hill trophy. He was strong, fast, and elusive. He wore out our defense by halftime.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Scott

[ASUPops]

As for the burden falling on the student I guess that really depends on how much you value the experiences they get from it. I'm paying for my son to go to Oklahoma State. The athletic experiences he's had the last two years are worth ten times what we would save by him going to Hardin Simmons or Liberty. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

REALLY?????? Are you talking as a spectator??

Isn't Hardin more expensive than a state school??