The LSC... Is it a has been?

[ASUPops]

CSM is a great school. I don't think it's ever a wrong choice to go there.

For sure. But for something being closer to home was preferred.

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

10 years ago..... 2013 season.

I don't think there is much difference between now and then minus the fact that WT isn't as good. I think you're romanticizing the past. Flip WT back to a national contender and the league is almost identical.

Are you sure that you're not judging the league based upon a composite of each team when it was at its height?

To a certain extent yes I may be romanticizing the past but it holds some merit.

Lets go back to 2009.

4 LSC teams made the playoffs.

WT would have easily made it had they not lost Keithon Flemming earlier that year.

ACU beat NW Missouri State during the regular season that year and yes I am well aware NWMSU returned the favor in the playoffs.


The consistent factor is the LSC schools fall short of getting out of regionals about 98% of the time and only once with a natty the last couple decades.

The point I am making is the 2nd-4th teams in the LSC were stronger in years past than they are now.

Can you with a straight face tell me that any LSC team outside Angelo State could beat any SR3 Top 10 team in the final regional rankings?

Kingsville was easily handled by East Central in a bowl game recently.

[Brandon]

To a certain extent yes I may be romanticizing the past but it holds some merit.

Lets go back to 2009.

4 LSC teams made the playoffs.

WT would have easily made it had they not lost Keithon Flemming earlier that year.

ACU beat NW Missouri State during the regular season that year and yes I am well aware NWMSU returned the favor in the playoffs.


The consistent factor is the LSC schools fall short of getting out of regionals about 98% of the time and only once with a natty the last couple decades.

The point I am making is the 2nd-4th teams in the LSC were stronger in years past than they are now.

Can you with a straight face tell me that any LSC team outside Angelo State could beat any SR3 Top 10 team in the final regional rankings?

Kingsville was easily handled by East Central in a bowl game recently.

It's seriously hard to follow when you're quoting caveats for injury and projecting results based upon those injuries.

But let's look at 2009.

Tarleton and TAMUK played each other to OT and then TSU got its ass kicked by CWU. ACU beat MSUTX by 3 and then got their ass kicked by Northwest Missouri. None of them proved that they could beat a tough team. In fact, it looks exactly the opposite.

If you think the 2022 version of Angelo State could beat the top contenders in SR3, then that appears to be better than the LSC would have done in 2009.

Now I'm curious and working back to current. Versus non-LSC teams in the playoffs:

2009 - 0-2 # LSC teams lost to Northwest Missouri (35-10) and Central Washington (27-6).

2010 - 0-3 # LSC teams lost to Central Missouri (55-35), Central Missouri (55-41), and Northwest Missouri (35-31).

2011 - 0-2 # LSC teams lost to Washburn (52-49) and Northwest Missouri (38-31).

2012 - 3-2 # LSC teams lost to Indianapolis (31-14) and Winston-Salem (41-18). WT was responsible for the three wins. They beat Chadron State (38-30), Ashland (33-28), and CSU-Pueblo (34-13).

2013 - 2-1 # LSC teams lost to Grand Valley (35-28). WT was responsible for the two wins over Indianapolis (27-14) and Ohio Dominican (34-27).

2014 - 1-1 # LSC teams lost to CSU-Pueblo 52-14). Angelo State was responsible for the win over Michigan Tech (42-41).

2015 - 0-2 # LSC teams lost to Ferris State 48-30) and CSU-Pueblo (25-17).

2016 - 1-2 # LSC teams lost to Ferris State (65-34) and Grand Valley (55-32). TAMUC was responsible for the win over Colorado Mesa (34-23).

2017 - 6-1 # LSC teams lost to Minnesota State (63-21). TAMUC was responsible for the wins over Winona State (20-6), Central Washington (34-31), Minnesota State (31-21), Harding (31-17), and West Florida (37-27). Midwestern State beat Sioux Falls (24-20).

2018 - 2-1 # LSC teams lost to Minnesota State (13-10). Tarleton State beat Azusa Pacific (58-0) and TAMUC beat Minnesota Duluth (33-17).

2019 - 1-1 # LSC teams lost to Minnesota State (42-21). TAMUC beat Colorado Mines (23-3).

2021 - 2-1 # LSC teams lost to Colorado Mines (34-26). Angelo State beat Minnesota Duluth (48-14) and Nebraska-Kearney (20-7).

2022 - 1-1 # LSC teams lost to Colorado Mines (42-24). Angelo State beat Bemidji State (33-7).


Playoff Wins in that time frame:

TAMUC - 8 (5 in 2017)
WT - 5
ASU - 4
MSUTX - 1
TSU - 1

I think you're judging today's LSC teams for what they are now versus a romanticized version of the past.

I didn't realize how accurate my previous statement was, but again, if WT can regain a level of play more similar to its potential the LSC will be largely what it was during most of that time frame.

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

It's seriously hard to follow when you're quoting caveats for injury and projecting results based upon those injuries.

But let's look at 2009.

Tarleton and TAMUK played each other to OT and then TSU got its ass kicked by CWU. ACU beat MSUTX by 3 and then got their ass kicked by Northwest Missouri. None of them proved that they could beat a tough team. In fact, it looks exactly the opposite.

If you think the 2022 version of Angelo State could beat the top contenders in SR3, then that appears to be better than the LSC would have done in 2009.

Now I'm curious and working back to current. Versus non-LSC teams in the playoffs:

2009 - 0-2 # LSC teams lost to Northwest Missouri (35-10) and Central Washington (27-6).

2010 - 0-3 # LSC teams lost to Central Missouri (55-35), Central Missouri (55-41), and Northwest Missouri (35-31).

2011 - 0-2 # LSC teams lost to Washburn (52-49) and Northwest Missouri (38-31).

2012 - 3-2 # LSC teams lost to Indianapolis (31-14) and Winston-Salem (41-18). WT was responsible for the three wins. They beat Chadron State (38-30), Ashland (33-28), and CSU-Pueblo (34-13).

2013 - 2-1 # LSC teams lost to Grand Valley (35-28). WT was responsible for the two wins over Indianapolis (27-14) and Ohio Dominican (34-27).

2014 - 1-1 # LSC teams lost to CSU-Pueblo 52-14). Angelo State was responsible for the win over Michigan Tech (42-41).

2015 - 0-2 # LSC teams lost to Ferris State 48-30) and CSU-Pueblo (25-17).

2016 - 1-2 # LSC teams lost to Ferris State (65-34) and Grand Valley (55-32). TAMUC was responsible for the win over Colorado Mesa (34-23).

2017 - 6-1 # LSC teams lost to Minnesota State (63-21). TAMUC was responsible for the wins over Winona State (20-6), Central Washington (34-31), Minnesota State (31-21), Harding (31-17), and West Florida (37-27). Midwestern State beat Sioux Falls (24-20).

2018 - 2-1 # LSC teams lost to Minnesota State (13-10). Tarleton State beat Azusa Pacific (58-0) and TAMUC beat Minnesota Duluth (33-17).

2019 - 1-1 # LSC teams lost to Minnesota State (42-21). TAMUC beat Colorado Mines (23-3).

2021 - 2-1 # LSC teams lost to Colorado Mines (34-26). Angelo State beat Minnesota Duluth (48-14) and Nebraska-Kearney (20-7).

2022 - 1-1 # LSC teams lost to Colorado Mines (42-24). Angelo State beat Bemidji State (33-7).


Playoff Wins in that time frame:

TAMUC - 8 (5 in 2017)
WT - 5
ASU - 4
MSUTX - 1
TSU - 1

I think you're judging today's LSC teams for what they are now versus a romanticized version of the past.

I didn't realize how accurate my previous statement was, but again, if WT can regain a level of play more similar to its potential the LSC will be largely what it was during most of that time frame.

I was just pointing out how many LSC teams were competitive that year and had a chance at the playoffs towards the end.

Yep I am agreeing with you that the LSC has sucked the huge one in playoffs for a while now.

I also think its no accident that the LSC started to have a little more success when the MIAA and GLIAC were moved away from SR4.

We have a few years to see how the new and future LSC members play out.

My final take that it is a telling stat that the second place LSC team can't sniff the playoff in a much weaker SR4 region than it was 5, 10, 15, etc. years ago.

You are right that if WT and Kingsville ever find their way back then it's a different ball game again.

It will also be interesting to see if Angelo State maintains their level of play in 2023.

Thank you for researching those stats.

Those games were a blast from the past.

[Runnin' Cat]

I was just pointing out how many LSC teams were competitive that year and had a chance at the playoffs towards the end.

Yep I am agreeing with you that the LSC has sucked the huge one in playoffs for a while now.

I also think its no accident that the LSC started to have a little more success when the MIAA and GLIAC were moved away from SR4.

We have a few years to see how the new and future LSC members play out.

My final take that it is a telling stat that the second place LSC team can't sniff the playoff in a much weaker SR4 region than it was 5, 10, 15, etc. years ago.

You are right that if WT and Kingsville ever find their way back then it's a different ball game again.

It will also be interesting to see if Angelo State maintains their level of play in 2023.

Thank you for researching those stats.

Those games were a blast from the past.

The second place LSC team in 2022 did sniff the playoffs. They were in the regional rankings up to the final two weeks.

A weird loss to WOU and the crazy WTAMU game kept them out. And two years in a row they played Angelo tough.

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

The second place LSC team in 2022 did sniff the playoffs. They were in the regional rankings up to the final two weeks.

A weird loss to WOU and the crazy WTAMU game kept them out. And two years in a row they played Angelo tough.

I guess we have different definitions of sniffing the playoffs.

Central Washington was only in 1 of the 3 regional rankings and they were barely #10 in the second one until disappearing for good.

[LSC Fan]

Seeing a school like Mines have a significant number of Texas players, including Matocha…could it also be that there are out of state programs along with the Texas D1’s keeping players out of the LSC?

That's very possible. I was shocked to hear that during the broadcast. I have noticed more prospects being offered from out of state schools and some I've never heard of for that matter. It might me more out there for public view thanks to these kids marketing themselves on social media. A kid gets an offer, he Tweets it and it get retweeted by news outlets and others. It's like they use the same script too.

I do think D1's have an impact. Twenty years ago, TAMUK only had to worry about Texas State (SWT) as main it's competitor in the region for recruits. UTSA and UIW football was not even a dream and in fact some UTSA alums and big wigs would've laughed in your face if you told them 20 years later they would have a football program making a national impact. Now they both have very respectable football programs, Texas State is no longer D-1-AA/FCS but in the FBS. Prairie View A&M used to be a laughing stock in the Houston area which was a recruiting ground for TAMUK for decades and they've improved. Same goes for the University of Houston which had a couple of decades where I don't think 80% of Houston knew their university had a football program unless they hosted UT or A&M for a game and the only reason those two school would go to the U of H for a game was for their giant alumni bases in the oil industry to get together for pre and post game stuff and have them write checks. So yes I'd say it's a good possibility the rise of the above has maybe had a significant impact. And now we will have UT-RGV to our south going full FBS in 2025 and putting the money behind it. How TAMUK responds is going to be interesting,

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

That's very possible. I was shocked to hear that during the broadcast. I have noticed more prospects being offered from out of state schools and some I've never heard of for that matter. It might me more out there for public view thanks to these kids marketing themselves on social media. A kid gets an offer, he Tweets it and it get retweeted by news outlets and others. It's like they use the same script too.

I do think D1's have an impact. Twenty years ago, TAMUK only had to worry about Texas State (SWT) as main it's competitor in the region for recruits. UTSA and UIW football was not even a dream and in fact some UTSA alums and big wigs would've laughed in your face if you told them 20 years later they would have a football program making a national impact. Now they both have very respectable football programs, Texas State is no longer D-1-AA/FCS but in the FBS. Prairie View A&M used to be a laughing stock in the Houston area which was a recruiting ground for TAMUK for decades and they've improved. Same goes for the University of Houston which had a couple of decades where I don't think 80% of Houston knew their university had a football program unless they hosted UT or A&M for a game and the only reason those two school would go to the U of H for a game was for their giant alumni bases in the oil industry to get together for pre and post game stuff and have them write checks. So yes I'd say it's a good possibility the rise of the above has maybe had a significant impact. And now we will have UT-RGV to our south going full FBS in 2025 and putting the money behind it. How TAMUK responds is going to be interesting,

Texas A&M University Corpus Christi-Kingsville Islanders has a nice ring to it in the Southland for a response.

Porky can wear the Islanders hat and Logo

[LSC Fan]

Texas A&M University Corpus Christi-Kingsville Islanders has a nice ring to it in the Southland for a response.

Porky can wear the Islanders hat and Logo

John Sharp is going to have to get busy real soon

1) He has to be nearing voluntary retirement.

2) Or he will be forced to retire if Jimbo has another sub par season. I think the Aggie fan base and big money donors will see to that since Sharp signed off on that extension.

I don't know if his replacement will have the passion nor the vision he has for a combined South Texas campus.

[Predatory Primates]

I agree with B. The LSC is one of those mid tier conferences that can produce a natty contender once in a while, but don't manage it every year..

As to the rest.. Ferris is a really good team, and the only way to beat them is in an ugly defensive dog fight. There just aren't many teams in D2 built to even come close to doing that.

IMO, Football is cyclical. Right now, it's a lot like the early 90s when it was won and lost on pure physicality.
oddly, NW, who came on the scene back then as what many viewed as sort of a finesse team with a funky high scoring offense, spent about a decade leading us all back to the days of great physical line play and arse blistering defense.

[LSC Fan]

I agree with B. The LSC is one of those mid tier conferences that can produce a natty contender once in a while, but don't manage it every year..

As to the rest.. Ferris is a really good team, and the only way to beat them is in an ugly defensive dog fight. There just aren't many teams in D2 built to even come close to doing that.

IMO, Football is cyclical. Right now, it's a lot like the early 90s when it was won and lost on pure physicality.
oddly, NW, who came on the scene back then as what many viewed as sort of a finesse team with a funky high scoring offense, spent about a decade leading us all back to the days of great physical line play and arse blistering defense.

I think what Buffalo Islander Alum and to some extent what I've been trying to say, once upon a time the best the LSC had would've never lost to CSM or any RMAC team in the playoffs. That didn't start happening until CSU Pueblo made it's playoff runs and since then it appears we've been on the short end of the stick. That's where I'm drawing my conclusions from in addition to actually seeing CSM get mauled by Ferris. But even when a team gets beat like CSM did, you can still see little glimpses of why that team got there in the first place and maybe unfairly I didn't see it. This is why I asked if Angelo was in a sense a paper tiger because if they lost to that team I couldn't imagine what Ferris would've done to them.

[Turbonium]

I think what Buffalo Islander Alum and to some extent what I've been trying to say, once upon a time the best the LSC had would've never lost to CSM or any RMAC team in the playoffs. That didn't start happening until CSU Pueblo made it's playoff runs and since then it appears we've been on the short end of the stick. That's where I'm drawing my conclusions from in addition to actually seeing CSM get mauled by Ferris. But even when a team gets beat like CSM did, you can still see little glimpses of why that team got there in the first place and maybe unfairly I didn't see it. This is why I asked if Angelo was in a sense a paper tiger because if they lost to that team I couldn't imagine what Ferris would've done to them.

Pueblo's quick success forced the teams in the RMAC to either take football seriously or get run over. Mines answered the challenge, and then some, while teams like Chadron decided to get run over. The RMAC has also removed the scholarship limit of 28 and so the last few years there is a more level playing field in OOC games for those teams in the conference that decide to push to fund 36. Hard to compare the "glory years of the LSC" having success against the RMAC when they're playing by two different sets of rules.

[ASUPops]

It's seriously hard to follow when you're quoting caveats for injury and projecting results based upon those injuries.

But let's look at 2009.

Tarleton and TAMUK played each other to OT and then TSU got its ass kicked by CWU. ACU beat MSUTX by 3 and then got their ass kicked by Northwest Missouri. None of them proved that they could beat a tough team. In fact, it looks exactly the opposite.

If you think the 2022 version of Angelo State could beat the top contenders in SR3, then that appears to be better than the LSC would have done in 2009.

Now I'm curious and working back to current. Versus non-LSC teams in the playoffs:

2009 - 0-2 # LSC teams lost to Northwest Missouri (35-10) and Central Washington (27-6).

2010 - 0-3 # LSC teams lost to Central Missouri (55-35), Central Missouri (55-41), and Northwest Missouri (35-31).

2011 - 0-2 # LSC teams lost to Washburn (52-49) and Northwest Missouri (38-31).

2012 - 3-2 # LSC teams lost to Indianapolis (31-14) and Winston-Salem (41-18). WT was responsible for the three wins. They beat Chadron State (38-30), Ashland (33-28), and CSU-Pueblo (34-13).

2013 - 2-1 # LSC teams lost to Grand Valley (35-28). WT was responsible for the two wins over Indianapolis (27-14) and Ohio Dominican (34-27).

2014 - 1-1 # LSC teams lost to CSU-Pueblo 52-14). Angelo State was responsible for the win over Michigan Tech (42-41).

2015 - 0-2 # LSC teams lost to Ferris State 48-30) and CSU-Pueblo (25-17).

2016 - 1-2 # LSC teams lost to Ferris State (65-34) and Grand Valley (55-32). TAMUC was responsible for the win over Colorado Mesa (34-23).

2017 - 6-1 # LSC teams lost to Minnesota State (63-21). TAMUC was responsible for the wins over Winona State (20-6), Central Washington (34-31), Minnesota State (31-21), Harding (31-17), and West Florida (37-27). Midwestern State beat Sioux Falls (24-20).

2018 - 2-1 # LSC teams lost to Minnesota State (13-10). Tarleton State beat Azusa Pacific (58-0) and TAMUC beat Minnesota Duluth (33-17).

2019 - 1-1 # LSC teams lost to Minnesota State (42-21). TAMUC beat Colorado Mines (23-3).

2021 - 2-1 # LSC teams lost to Colorado Mines (34-26). Angelo State beat Minnesota Duluth (48-14) and Nebraska-Kearney (20-7).

2022 - 1-1 # LSC teams lost to Colorado Mines (42-24). Angelo State beat Bemidji State (33-7).


Playoff Wins in that time frame:

TAMUC - 8 (5 in 2017)
WT - 5
ASU - 4
MSUTX - 1
TSU - 1

I think you're judging today's LSC teams for what they are now versus a romanticized version of the past.

I didn't realize how accurate my previous statement was, but again, if WT can regain a level of play more similar to its potential the LSC will be largely what it was during most of that time frame.

These dang facts muddy up the water for the ones on here that know better! 70707.

[ASUPops]

I was just pointing out how many LSC teams were competitive that year and had a chance at the playoffs towards the end.

Yep I am agreeing with you that the LSC has sucked the huge one in playoffs for a while now.

I also think its no accident that the LSC started to have a little more success when the MIAA and GLIAC were moved away from SR4.

We have a few years to see how the new and future LSC members play out.

My final take that it is a telling stat that the second place LSC team can't sniff the playoff in a much weaker SR4 region than it was 5, 10, 15, etc. years ago.

You are right that if WT and Kingsville ever find their way back then it's a different ball game again.

It will also be interesting to see if Angelo State maintains their level of play in 2023.

Thank you for researching those stats.

Those games were a blast from the past.

Here is a towel. You got a bit of egg on your face. Those darn facts get ya every time! 70707 😉

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

I think what Buffalo Islander Alum and to some extent what I've been trying to say, once upon a time the best the LSC had would've never lost to CSM or any RMAC team in the playoffs. That didn't start happening until CSU Pueblo made it's playoff runs and since then it appears we've been on the short end of the stick. That's where I'm drawing my conclusions from in addition to actually seeing CSM get mauled by Ferris. But even when a team gets beat like CSM did, you can still see little glimpses of why that team got there in the first place and maybe unfairly I didn't see it. This is why I asked if Angelo was in a sense a paper tiger because if they lost to that team I couldn't imagine what Ferris would've done to them.

Yeah you articulated it better than I did.

I cant remember the last time a second place LSC team finished with 4 losses and were considered non competitive.

Like I said time will tell if UTPB, Sul Ross, Next D3/NAIA, etc can have the same amount of success that other LSC teams the last 20 years or so had in conference play and in the playoffs.