OFFICIAL: Simon Fraser OUT after 2023

[QB11111]

Good digging, I'm not sure why they stay NAIA. Southern and Eastern Oregon have many 14-hour (1-way) bus rides to Montana. They would have some in D2, but also play Western Oregon, SFU, and CWU, still a ways, but much closer. College of Idaho and Carroll College are NAIA fully-funded for football with 24 scholarships each, I think that's significantly more than Western Oregon.

It would be a tremendous league if the Frontier went D2 and invited SFU, WOU, and CWU. Southern Oregon has been pretty good over the years, EOU has their moments, College of Idaho is really good as is Carroll. I think the lower rung teams, Western Montana, Northern Montana, Rocky Mountain, etc., would yell the loudest against the move, sort of like those D3 schools who raised a sh-t storm about state schools. My experience on the Frontier is they'll never leave NAIA.

They might also be gaining Simpson College (CA) as they are starting football and will be NAIA

[Brandon]

You're probably right. The only reasons I see to stay are to resist change and show loyalty to the NAIA.

Looking at the demographics and where they would rank in Division II.

Budgets
x

Rank	Team	Before	After
84	Rocky Mountain	Shorter	Arkansas Tech
92	Carroll	Winona State	East Stroudsburg
115	College of Idaho	Adams State	Lock Haven
121	Eastern Oregon	Henderson State	Fairmont State
142	Southern Oregon	Glenville State	Tuskegee
153	Montana Tech	Savannah State	Western New Mexico
157	Montana Western	Lincoln (Pa)	Fayetteville State
159	Montana-Northern	Fayetteville State	St. Augustine's

x
Enrollment
x

Rank	Team	Before	After
71	Southern Oregon	Gannon	Bemidji State
112	Eastern Oregon	Lenoir-Rhyne	Walsh
125	Montana Tech	Miles	Northwestern Oklahoma
139	College of Idaho	UVA-Wise	Chowan
144	Carroll	Shorter	Glenville State
145	Montana Western	Shorter	Glenville State
158	Rocky Mountain	Livingstone	Kentucky Wesleyan
162	Montana-Northern	William Jewell	Alderson-Broaddus

x
I even looked at athletic facilities (FB/BB). For the most part, they'd be adequate to above adequate. I really liked a few.

[Brandon]

They might also be gaining Simpson College (CA) as they are starting football and will be NAIA

Very good. I didn't know they were starting football.

[Brandon]

They haven't been having any success in football, either.

One thing that people don't realize is that it's much easier to get a fanbase behind reclassification when a team isn't living up to past accomplishments.

2022
Carroll College - Lost - 17-14 to Grandview

2021
Montana Western - Lost - 48-21 to Lindsay Wilson

2020
Carroll College - Lost - 55-0 to Morningside

2019
College of Idaho - Won - 70-23 over Ottawa (Az)
College of Idaho - Lost - 14-6 to Grand View

2018
Rocky Mountain - Lost - 49-20 to Morningside

[QB11111]

Very good. I didn't know they were starting football.

They just announced it a couple of months ago, theyve already hired a HC and i believe they might be making plans for an on campus stadium

[Inkblot]

Arizona Christian is joining the Frontier for football this fall.

[ASUPops]

The RMAC has 10 football schools, so if they even wanted to go to 12 schools, CWU and WOU would at least be a somewhat decent fit. The RMAC could follow the CIAA scheduling pattern (2 OOC, 3 cross-over/interdivision, 5 intra-division) and it could still work (though I'm sure New Mexico Highlands wouldn't be overly thrilled about that prospect) ... and it's for football only, so it wouldn't gum up the rest of their sports. Not saying it will happen, but there's certainly a path for that to happen in the long term.

I like it!!!

[ASUPops]

I, for one, appreciate and enjoy having CWU and WOU in the football LSC. Despite WOU owning WT, it's enjoyable to watch competition from a different geographical sphere. Those who may wish for CWU and WOU to go away sometime in the future should beware of that desire.

I remember the Texas-school hubris when the LSC discarded the Oklahoma schools. It wasn't long before the LSC faced an existential crisis in football. Like many fans, I "looked down" at the Okies and said good riddance. In retrospect it was a huge mistake to usher the Okies to the back door. Let's not make the same mistake again.

No Sir, the Oklahoma schools left on their own. They were not "discarded" by the LSC.

[QB11111]

Does that mean OUAZ is going with them?

[Inkblot]

Does that mean OUAZ is going with them?

Not that I've heard.

[tsull]

I've talked to a few people regarding WOU, they're not going back to NAIA. It was too cost prohibitive regarding nationals as in NCAA pays for athletes to go, NAIA does not. But the added travel cost in football and the LSC has worked well with WOU in at least trying to minimize it. People at WOU like the competitiveness of the LSC, the road atmosphere, etc. The only obstacle is travel cost.

WOU made a final 4 in men's hoops in the last decade, had some distance runners who won national titles, are good regionally in baseball and now and then softball. After a rough transition, D2 has been solid for the school. Their problem is cranking things up in their local community, they seriously don't know how to do it or don't want to.

I liked Brandon's research and there are some good venues. Carroll and College of Idaho care the most, fully funded scholarship wise in football; College of Idaho has one loss in men's hoops and is No. 1 in the nation in NAIA right now. They care. They are 7 miles away from D2 NNU, a GNAC member. They swept them in hoops this year and it's a great rivalry with huge crowds. C of I would be a great fit, but like others, I think they're wed to NAIA, as is Carroll and everyone else in the Frontier.

Carroll explored going D2, did a study and thought it better to stay NAIA. MSU-Billings (a GNAC member) did a study in bringing back football, had a lot of alumni support. They're not bringing it back. D3 seems to be the only place where schools bring back football. But I really believe SOU, EOU, College of Idaho, and Carroll, should go D2 in football. They don't share my thoughts, obviously.

[WT_TKW]

No Sir, the Oklahoma schools left on their own. They were not "discarded" by the LSC.

That is how I remember it too.

[BuffaloChip]

No Sir, the Oklahoma schools left on their own. They were not "discarded" by the LSC.

I disagree.

The Oklahoma schools were "pushed" out by the Texas schools. The rumble was that the Oklahoma schools were inferior and insufficient in resources and if they "decided" to leave the remaining LSC Texas schools "wouldn't stand in their way." Had the LSC, the Texas Presidents and AD's, made a concerted effort to implore the Okie schools to stay and address their differences, the breakup never would have happened. It was kind of like a long-term marriage breakup, where one party was still ready to be wooed but the other party was holding the exit door open as they oiled the door hinges.

[ASUPops]

I disagree.

The Oklahoma schools were "pushed" out by the Texas schools. The rumble was that the Oklahoma schools were inferior and insufficient in resources and if they "decided" to leave the remaining LSC Texas schools "wouldn't stand in their way." Had the LSC, the Texas Presidents and AD's, made a concerted effort to implore the Okie schools to stay and address their differences, the breakup never would have happened. It was kind of like a long-term marriage breakup, where one party was still ready to be wooed but the other party was holding the exit door open as they oiled the door hinges.

We agree to disagree. The Okie schools had a better opportunity and would save a great deal leaving the LSC. Per Stan Wagnon, the 5 schools made a joint announcement to the LSC in July 2010 that they were leaving the conference. In August, the President's Council worked out the exit strategy for the okie schools to leave after the 2010 season. In 2011, they got rid of the two divisions North/South and had one 11 member conference, 9 football members.

As a matter of fact, at first, 3 schools left and the LSC tried like h3ll to keep the other two, but lost out.

Those are the FACTS.

Now, did the butt hurt remaining LSC Presidents or ADs try to save face and make it seem like it was their idea? 7070707 Maybe!

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

You're probably right. The only reasons I see to stay are to resist change and show loyalty to the NAIA.

Looking at the demographics and where they would rank in Division II.

Not trying to be a douche just genuinely curious comment/question.

How are the metrics different when the Texas D2 schools jump to D1?