Conference Expansion?

[MrMustang]

I had a colleague at work experience basically the same thing. Their daughter was looking at St. Bens and St. Cloud State. Once all the aid got figured in, St. Bens was the cheaper choice. She didn't end up at either, but it was somewhat of an eye opener to me hearing that and something I will keep in my back pocket when my kids get to exploring.

Yeah. It was an eye opening experience for me especially considering I went to SMSU and loved it. Just eye opening how much MnSCU has changed in 30 years.

[NSU4LIFE]

Common misconception around the terms "for-profit" and "non-profit." All institutions (education or otherwise) need to maintain a positive cash balance regardless of their tax status to stay functioning.

Sign up for a couple classes at the University of Phoenix and compare them to what's offered at Northern if you care to see the difference between the two.

No interest in being a degree hoarder. I've known a few that have gotten a new Hampshire or Phoenix degree, no difference. They and I paid someone to attempt to get a piece of paper and in the end, got it. I got to go to games and hang with friends, they worked. In the end, they probably made the better choice.

[SW_Mustang]

I was unaware that there was schools thay were trying to lose money. This is news to me snd puzzling.

Common misconception around the terms "for-profit" and "non-profit." All institutions (education or otherwise) need to maintain a positive cash balance regardless of their tax status to stay functioning.

Sign up for a couple classes at the University of Phoenix and compare them to what's offered at Northern if you care to see the difference between the two.

[NSU4LIFE]

I was unaware that there was schools thay were trying to lose money. This is news to me snd puzzling.

[SW_Mustang]

I think Waldorf is owned by their own foundation now. They had to sell to a diploma mill to stay alive, but now I think they're pretty much out of the tall grass and legit. The former "teachers colleges" are having a tough go of it in many circumstances because they just don't have the endowment some of the other schools do. My daughter goes to Grinnell and she got a full ride on something called a Quest Bridge Scholarship. Their endowment is ridiculously high.

Grinnell is a top-tier LAC which explains the endowment. Iowa has some great LACs (as does Minnesota). Those schools tend to have insane money. Hadn't heard about Waldorf going legit, that could very well be the case. GCU was trying to do that some years back.

[Dan Brookens]

I think Waldorf is owned by their own foundation now. They had to sell to a diploma mill to stay alive, but now I think they're pretty much out of the tall grass and legit. The former "teachers colleges" are having a tough go of it in many circumstances because they just don't have the endowment some of the other schools do. My daughter goes to Grinnell and she got a full ride on something called a Quest Bridge Scholarship. Their endowment is ridiculously high.

[Millsy]

FWIW. My son's out of pocket cost to go to Waldrof is LESS than my daughter's out of pocket cost to attend Minnesota State Moorhead. That's after full cost less scholrships... (net cost)

Which I found astounding. Minnesota Public Universities aren't a great value at this point. When I went to SMSU it was an incredibly great value and cheap as heck. Not true any more.

And my two kids had essentially the same resume. 3 sports, plus other activities like theatre etc plus A students with solid ACT scores (not in the 30s).

Frankly Waldorf or any other private school wasn't on our radar to start until we started digging into the numbers and aI was just stunned.

Plus Moorhead had many online classes for 3 years and Waldorf always had in classroom instruction. They somehow made it work. My daughter took coaching basketball from Coach Walthall online - what a complete joke it was.

Oh and in many cases MnSCU charges MORE for online classes. How the heck does that make sense.

I had a colleague at work experience basically the same thing. Their daughter was looking at St. Bens and St. Cloud State. Once all the aid got figured in, St. Bens was the cheaper choice. She didn't end up at either, but it was somewhat of an eye opener to me hearing that and something I will keep in my back pocket when my kids get to exploring.

[SW_Mustang]

FWIW. My son's out of pocket cost to go to Waldrof is LESS than my daughter's out of pocket cost to attend Minnesota State Moorhead. That's after full cost less scholrships... (net cost)

Which I found astounding. Minnesota Public Universities aren't a great value at this point. When I went to SMSU it was an incredibly great value and cheap as heck. Not true any more.

And my two kids had essentially the same resume. 3 sports, plus other activities like theatre etc plus A students with solid ACT scores (not in the 30s).

Frankly Waldorf or any other private school wasn't on our radar to start until we started digging into the numbers and aI was just stunned.

Plus Moorhead had many online classes for 3 years and Waldorf always had in classroom instruction. They somehow made it work. My daughter took coaching basketball from Coach Walthall online - what a complete joke it was.

Oh and in many cases MnSCU charges MORE for online classes. How the heck does that make sense.

It's just a personal belief. It wasn't meant to be taken as a shot to you or your son. If I'm going to make a comment like I did about Waldorf being put in a corner, I might as well stand on it and not try to hide it. I don't like for-profit universities. That doesn't mean you are required to believe it yourself, or that I have any interest in changing your mind.

While I agree that MnSCU is a hot mess, your comments on SMSU are wildly subjective. My debt load (for both degrees combined) was less than what I spent on my used car. I'm on a great career path and many of my former classmates are as well. I've attended two other, much larger universities in my time since - and while I enjoyed those experiences, I really think SMSU has a unique experience that one can't get elsewhere.

My beliefs on for-profit education are my beliefs, and I'm not going to apologize for them. I have zero interest in converting you to my side though. Let's leave it at that and get back to the coffee shop banter.

[MrMustang]

NAIA does have great baseball. I used to follow the MLB Draft before they ruined the MiLB, and the NAIA had some guys that would get drafted super high at times. Definitely a sleeper league in that regard, some years.

I'm going to be honest - but I don't like for-profit universities. It's not a personal dig, it's just what I believe. I've been vocal about it in other areas on the board, so it's nothing new. Waldorf is one.

FWIW. My son's out of pocket cost to go to Waldrof is LESS than my daughter's out of pocket cost to attend Minnesota State Moorhead. That's after full cost less scholrships... (net cost)

Which I found astounding. Minnesota Public Universities aren't a great value at this point. When I went to SMSU it was an incredibly great value and cheap as heck. Not true any more.

And my two kids had essentially the same resume. 3 sports, plus other activities like theatre etc plus A students with solid ACT scores (not in the 30s).

Frankly Waldorf or any other private school wasn't on our radar to start until we started digging into the numbers and aI was just stunned.

Plus Moorhead had many online classes for 3 years and Waldorf always had in classroom instruction. They somehow made it work. My daughter took coaching basketball from Coach Walthall online - what a complete joke it was.

Oh and in many cases MnSCU charges MORE for online classes. How the heck does that make sense.

[SW_Mustang]

My son goes to Waldorf. The league is pretty good for baseball. The NAIA has very solid baseball.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the North Star. Bellevue isn't going to go D3.

The Heart of America is an option to make a bigger conference with the current North Star with a merger

NAIA does have great baseball. I used to follow the MLB Draft before they ruined the MiLB, and the NAIA had some guys that would get drafted super high at times. Definitely a sleeper league in that regard, some years.

I'm going to be honest - but I don't like for-profit universities. It's not a personal dig, it's just what I believe. I've been vocal about it in other areas on the board, so it's nothing new. Waldorf is one.

[SW_Mustang]

GPAC doesn't want DSU -- it is a private school league and DSU is public. Just like the MIAC doesn't want UMC or Morris

Fair point. There are still options though.

[SW_Mustang]

Those schools don't want to be D3. They are NAIA specifically because they can offer athletic scholarships which are important to attracting students.

Ehh... I'll assume you mean student athletes as the general student body simply doesn't care. Is VCSU going to be any worse off not offering scholarships? Is it making them any more competitive than UMAC competition?

We're not talking about Morningside or Northwestern - schools that are competing for titles here. We're talking about Dakota State.

[MrMustang]

Move Dickinson, Mayville, VCSU, and DSU into the UMAC for a nice 12 team conference (all sports). Bellevue and Viterbo to the American Rivers conference. Waldorf can sit in the corner for all I care.

As for the four to the UMAC, I'd be hard pressed to believe any of them won't be competitive among the likes of the current field. If you can't compete against Morris and Crown, maybe sports shouldn't be an institutional focus.

Seems like the NAIA is just a hold over from when the NCAA only had two divisions and is beginning to feel obsolete these days, though I'm certainly not praying on it's downfall.

EDIT: There's also the GPAC - so maybe DSU goes to the GPAC and Crookston goes to the UMAC. It would leave the GPAC with 13 teams though, which could be awkward.

EDIT 2: There is also the Heart of America Conference. Between the UMAC/ARC/GPAC/HAAC/NSIC - there seems to be options.

My son goes to Waldorf. The league is pretty good for baseball. The NAIA has very solid baseball.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the North Star. Bellevue isn't going to go D3.

The Heart of America is an option to make a bigger conference with the current North Star with a merger

[MrMustang]

Move Dickinson, Mayville, VCSU, and DSU into the UMAC for a nice 12 team conference (all sports). Bellevue and Viterbo to the American Rivers conference. Waldorf can sit in the corner for all I care.

As for the four to the UMAC, I'd be hard pressed to believe any of them won't be competitive among the likes of the current field. If you can't compete against Morris and Crown, maybe sports shouldn't be an institutional focus.

Seems like the NAIA is just a hold over from when the NCAA only had two divisions and is beginning to feel obsolete these days, though I'm certainly not praying on it's downfall.

EDIT: There's also the GPAC - so maybe DSU goes to the GPAC and Crookston goes to the UMAC. It would leave the GPAC with 13 teams though, which could be awkward.

EDIT 2: There is also the Heart of America Conference. Between the UMAC/ARC/GPAC/HAAC/NSIC - there seems to be options.

GPAC doesn't want DSU -- it is a private school league and DSU is public. Just like the MIAC doesn't want UMC or Morris

[MrMustang]

Move Dickinson, Mayville, VCSU, and DSU into the UMAC for a nice 12 team conference (all sports). Bellevue and Viterbo to the American Rivers conference. Waldorf can sit in the corner for all I care.

As for the four to the UMAC, I'd be hard pressed to believe any of them won't be competitive among the likes of the current field. If you can't compete against Morris and Crown, maybe sports shouldn't be an institutional focus.

Seems like the NAIA is just a hold over from when the NCAA only had two divisions and is beginning to feel obsolete these days, though I'm certainly not praying on it's downfall.

EDIT: There's also the GPAC - so maybe DSU goes to the GPAC and Crookston goes to the UMAC. It would leave the GPAC with 13 teams though, which could be awkward.

EDIT 2: There is also the Heart of America Conference. Between the UMAC/ARC/GPAC/HAAC/NSIC - there seems to be options.

Those schools don't want to be D3. They are NAIA specifically because they can offer athletic scholarships which are important to attracting students.