Dixie State considering a move to D1

[ccmoney8]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

To convert point 6) to $s:

https://herosports.com/ncaa-tourname...ball-fund-a7a7

The WAC received a $1,711,784.00 payout in 2017 for the D1 men's basketball tournament. That is roughly what the conference has earned each of the last few years due to playing only one game. The 8 WAC schools get an equal share (if the WAC uses this method) of $213,973 per year and with 9 schools the share drops to $190,198 per year. If I'm not missing something, that doesn't seem to be much revenue for the enormous expense of being a D1 program. It's barely enough to cover the costs of scholarships for the basketball team and reclassifying schools don't see any of that money.

Correct, the potential value added of having another win or two in the NCAAT isn't a motivator for the schools to join. They still have to raise the funds to run their own programs. But it's a motivator for which schools the conference might select.

Also, NCAA revenue sharing would only be one source of revenue. Others include broadcast and promotional rights at conference tournaments.

[SGAstumpJ]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

Risky Shift Phenomenon

Description: When people are in groups, they make decision about risk differently from when they are alone. In the group, they are likely to make riskier decisions, as the shared risk makes the individual risk less.

A lot of the NCC schools were affected by this.

To use a non-football example, this is basically how the PacWest assumed its current form. At the start of the last decade, the old Golden State Athletic Conference (NAIA) was rumored to be looking at moving up to D2 en masse. Westmont was emphatically against it and remained with the schools that didn't have enough sports or money to realistically make the jump. Cal Baptist was all for it (they were planning on going D1 sooner or later and now have). Azusa Pacific, Fresno Pacific and Point Loma decided to make the move together, and Concordia-Irvine and Biola followed within a couple of years.

[Techster88]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

There are always a few psychological phenomenons that happen when these moves are speculated.

Risky Shift Phenomenon

Description: When people are in groups, they make decision about risk differently from when they are alone. In the group, they are likely to make riskier decisions, as the shared risk makes the individual risk less.

A lot of the NCC schools were affected by this.

Reciprocal LikingJealousy and Inferiority

I can't find a perfect definition online, but you all have seen this happen time and time again on this board.

Let's say Pittsburg State gets an invite from the Missouri Valley Conference and it's announced that PSU is hiring a consulting company. Immediately, Central Missouri fans wonder why they didn't get the invite, list reasons why they are as good a candidate or better than Pitt State, and start to complain to their AD that they should be D1 as well.

[Brandon]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

There are way too many ifs in this scenario....plus....

Could you please look up the requirements for a conference? They have to have a certain number of current D1 schools to be eligible for automatic births. Could you find what that number/ratio is?

[Techster88]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

There are way too many ifs in this scenario....plus....

Could you please look up the requirements for a conference? They have to have a certain number of current D1 schools to be eligible for automatic births. Could you find what that number/ratio is?

So to be eligible for an automatic bid, and you still may not get one, you must have 6 of the same D-I members for 2 years straight. Go below 6, you are ineligible and start over. Being eligible doesn't mean you'll receive one though.

NCAA has waived some of these rules for the WAC before and if they work closely with the NCAA and its seen as viable who knows what may or may not happen. Nothing is etched in stone

[Ian Carlson]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

UNC doesn't scare anybody these days, except distraught Bear fans. That program has been in disarray for some time. CSUP recruits Colorado much better than UNC. CSUP would beat UNC regularly if the two teams played annually. The Mines would beat the Bears also. UNC won't play top level RMAC teams like it did in the past. We all know why ...

Heck Lindenwood beat them on their home field in their first year in D2 a few years ago. Crazy how that once proud program fell completely off the map.

[Tech Boys]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

Correct, the potential value added of having another win or two in the NCAAT isn't a motivator for the schools to join. They still have to raise the funds to run their own programs. But it's a motivator for which schools the conference might select.

Also, NCAA revenue sharing would only be one source of revenue. Others include broadcast and promotional rights at conference tournaments.

What is the dollar amount on those broadcast and promotional rights? It can't be all that much. The only TV ads I have seen for the WAC was when I was watching New Mexico State football games from the time they were a Sun Belt affiliate. I live 40 miles from the WAC office (39 of those miles are on I25) and have driven by the office so many times I'm not going to bother to count and yet I still have to look up the WAC members. It has been nearly 20 years since anyone, outside of the WAC office, here in Colorado has given the WAC much more than a casual glance.

Dixie State is going to have to at least double their budget and raise funds for the reclassifying process. Where is that money going to come from cause I'm pretty sure they will have to have the money first. It's also a huge gamble on a ship-load of "IFs" when it comes to the WAC getting enough schools to join for football. The feasibility study might say DSU can go D1 but can that study guarantee the money will be raised or 5 other football teams will join the WAC?

If Dixie State or any other school goes D1 then good for them. I just don't see the charm in taking on all the added expenses to be just as much a nobody in D1 as we are now in D2 along with no chance ever to win a national title.

[ccmoney8]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

This is exactly the sort of scenario I imagined as well. S. Utah and N. Colo., Dixie, maybe they rope CMU in... They are clearly trying to rebrand as a conference centralized around the Rockies.

[Lobo]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

This is exactly the sort of scenario I imagined as well. S. Utah and N. Colo., Dixie, maybe they rope CMU in... They are clearly trying to rebrand as a conference centralized around the Rockies.

Don't see why S. Utah and UNC would leave the Big Sky Conference, a well established conference, to join an obvious goat rope. The WAC needs more than rebranding. It needs to stop pretending it's a real DI conference.

[whodat]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

Don't see why S. Utah and UNC would leave the Big Sky Conference, a well established conference, to join an obvious goat rope. The WAC needs more than rebranding. It needs to stop pretending it's a real DI conference.

I wonder if the WAC's "feasibility study" to begin FCS football was done by the same people who did the Dixie study?

I read somewhere (which I can longer find) a person say that this is more about realigning the Southland, Big Sky, and one other I can't remember, and that the WAC is actually being used as a false front for those 3 conferences. The theory being that there are schools that want to jump to FBS inside of these conferences, along with some desired geographical consolidation, so they are looking for options to backfill members. Tarleton is another school looking to move, but desires to be in the Southland.

So, perhaps this is all a mirage to smoke out other D2 schools who want to move up, or WAC schools thinking about adding football. Maybe the WAC wants to just focus primarily on B-ball (thus, the reason Metro State is talking to them), and this is all a multi-conference coordinated effort looking to the future?

[catatonic]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

I wonder if the WAC's "feasibility study" to begin FCS football was done by the same people who did the Dixie study?

I read somewhere (which I can longer find) a person say that this is more about realigning the Southland, Big Sky, and one other I can't remember, and that the WAC is actually being used as a false front for those 3 conferences. The theory being that there are schools that want to jump to FBS inside of these conferences, along with some desired geographical consolidation, so they are looking for options to backfill members. Tarleton is another school looking to move, but desires to be in the Southland.

So, perhaps this is all a mirage to smoke out other D2 schools who want to move up, or WAC schools thinking about adding football. Maybe the WAC wants to just focus primarily on B-ball (thus, the reason Metro State is talking to them), and this is all a multi-conference coordinated effort looking to the future?

[ccmoney8]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

What is the dollar amount on those broadcast and promotional rights? It can't be all that much. The only TV ads I have seen for the WAC was when I was watching New Mexico State football games from the time they were a Sun Belt affiliate. I live 40 miles from the WAC office (39 of those miles are on I25) and have driven by the office so many times I'm not going to bother to count and yet I still have to look up the WAC members. It has been nearly 20 years since anyone, outside of the WAC office, here in Colorado has given the WAC much more than a casual glance.

Dixie State is going to have to at least double their budget and raise funds for the reclassifying process. Where is that money going to come from cause I'm pretty sure they will have to have the money first. It's also a huge gamble on a ship-load of "IFs" when it comes to the WAC getting enough schools to join for football. The feasibility study might say DSU can go D1 but can that study guarantee the money will be raised or 5 other football teams will join the WAC?

If Dixie State or any other school goes D1 then good for them. I just don't see the charm in taking on all the added expenses to be just as much a nobody in D1 as we are now in D2 along with no chance ever to win a national title.

Not sure what the dollar amounts are, but you're right - no low-major conference is raking in dough for its members. I was thinking more from the conference-wide perspective. Strategically I just think the model the WAC wants to follow is similar to the MVC. If they want to A) continue to exist and B) return from low-major back to mid-major status, then they should centralize for stability, and they should target potential basketball growth. Also think Dixie and MSU Denver meet both of those objectives for a long-term strategy.

I don't pretend to know Dixie's specific situation, but the big money for those athletic programs moving up usually comes from the administrative side - tuition, fees, endowments, public funds, etc. Each situation is different... public vs private, high enrollment vs low, heavy-hitting alumni base vs lightweight, political climates, blah-blah-blah.

We laugh at UNC for its football, but they were a three-pointer away from the big dance last year and that's a large part of the attraction of D1 for the higher-ups in athletics and the alumni. Millions of people with eyeballs on your brand.

[Lobo]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

Interesting....some rumors from Texas....

From the SLC, Lamar has openly stated a desire to move to FBS. Some of the fans from Sam Houston and SF Austin have been unhappy with adding new schools that have in their opinion diluted the brand and have been clamoring for their schools to move up as well. Prairie View has been rumored to be open to moving from the SWAC to the Southland

It's understandable as to why Sam Houston and SF Austin fans are unhappy about some of the SLC's recent additions. Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word, among others, have helped render the SLC a mediocre conference overall. As for Lamar moving to the FBS level, that's puzzling. The Cardinals haven't come close to winning a LSC championship; although they beat Sam Houston earlier this year. I don't think Prairie View would make the SLC stronger, but it probably wouldn't make it weaker either. At least Prairie View has a nice big new stadium. The SLC ain't the powerhouse conference it once was.

[ccmoney8]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

Don't see why S. Utah and UNC would leave the Big Sky Conference, a well established conference, to join an obvious goat rope. The WAC needs more than rebranding. It needs to stop pretending it's a real DI conference.

I don't know that either would. At least not initially. Travel would be a factor though.

To me, the fact the WAC is talking publicly about FCS means they've felt out some Big Sky members on moving. They either have to get a bunch of RMAC/LSC schools to jump at once, or raid the BSC in order to play football. Don't think they're discussing it in public at this point if it's just Dixie and 2-3 from the Lone Star on board.

[Drunk in la junta]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

I don't know that either would. At least not initially. Travel would be a factor though.

To me, the fact the WAC is talking publicly about FCS means they've felt out some Big Sky members on moving. They either have to get a bunch of RMAC/LSC schools to jump at once, or raid the BSC in order to play football. Don't think they're discussing it in public at this point if it's just Dixie and 2-3 from the Lone Star on board.

Did Colorado Mines suffer a devastating upset? Omg