Dixie State considering a move to D1

[Brandon]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

ha!! They think football can go from $500k now to $750k in fcs operational costs.

No.way.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

[Brandon]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

No doubt. :smile-big:

That said, the WAC and Dixie would not be saying and doing these things unless some interest has been expressed by other schools. I can't see NMSU moving down, but I could see CWU, Dixie, Mesa, CSUP, possibly Mines, Asuza all moving up. And maybe this is the opening for Grand Canyon to start football, as they wanted a couple of years ago. Maybe even a couple of Big Sky teams move out.

Where there is smoke, there is fire....

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

CWU - $6,947,752
DSU - $6,721,281
CMU - $9,198,664
CSUP - $7,589,933
CSM - $8,644,201
APU - $11,264,282

These are the ATHLETIC budgets for these schools. Not the football budgets. Where would they find the money?

[whodat]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

CWU - $6,947,752
DSU - $6,721,281
CMU - $9,198,664
CSUP - $7,589,933
CSM - $8,644,201
APU - $11,264,282

These are the ATHLETIC budgets for these schools. Not the football budgets. Where would they find the money?

I'm not saying anyone SHOULD do it. But logic goes out the window when the decision is backed up by an expensive 'feasibility study'. If logic was the determining factor, Northern Colorado would not have moved. Neither would Abilene. etc, etc.

But administrators in this situation only think about money - or, should I say, the potential of revenue - and don't really look at the history.

Plus, Dixie looks at its dreadful travel prospects in the RMAC and wonders if there is a better way. I'm sure CWU and Azusa are the same way. I certainly would not blame them for feeling dismayed by the GNAC situation.

Another article says Dixie would be ok being independent if the WAC deal does not pan out. So it looks pretty serious to me.

[Brandon]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

I'm not saying anyone SHOULD do it. But logic goes out the window when the decision is backed up by an expensive 'feasibility study'. If logic was the determining factor, Northern Colorado would not have moved. Neither would Abilene. etc, etc.

But administrators in this situation only think about money - or, should I say, the potential of revenue - and don't really look at the history.

Plus, Dixie looks at its dreadful travel prospects in the RMAC and wonders if there is a better way. I'm sure CWU and Azusa are the same way. I certainly would not blame them for feeling dismayed by the GNAC situation.

Another article says Dixie would be ok being independent if the WAC deal does not pan out. So it looks pretty serious to me.

Hey sorry I wasn't laughing at you. I was laughing at the WAC and any of those schools that think they're "D1."

Northern Colorado made a huge mistake. The problem was that their president said they wouldn't have to spend much more money in the FCS. Their president was wrong. It's all about money. They are spending $17,289,718 per year to be embarrassed.

Those RMAC schools have mid-range D2 budgets. They would have to spend $8-11 million more per year to get to the level of being embarrassed.

[Lobo]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

Hey sorry I wasn't laughing at you. I was laughing at the WAC and any of those schools that think they're "D1."

Northern Colorado made a huge mistake. The problem was that their president said they wouldn't have to spend much more money in the FCS. Their president was wrong. It's all about money. They are spending $17,289,718 per year to be embarrassed.

Those RMAC schools have mid-range D2 budgets. They would have to spend $8-11 million more per year to get to the level of being embarrassed.

The only school that has made some noises about moving up is Mesa, and apparently now Dixie (not old school RMAC no no big deal if the Blazers bolt). That's what Mesa player's parents told me a while back. Every other team including CSUP and Mines are absolutely happy to play at the DII level, where they belong. Much better to be a big fish in a small RMAC pond, than to be a small fish in a big FCS pond.

[whodat]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

Hey sorry I wasn't laughing at you. I was laughing at the WAC and any of those schools that think they're "D1."

No worries, I understood.

Interesting, isn't it, how the feasibility studies never look at the effects moving up has on won/loss and the direct correlation to money from donors. When you are winning, the money flows.

I did not study Dixie's report closely, but I did not see anything about how teams like UNC make this work. But they seem to think that $12 million would be enough... :bulgy-eyes:

[Lobo]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

Over on the Big Sky Conference message board, some Bear fans post messages opining that UNC made a serious mistake moving to the FCS level. Many wish they were back at the DII level. Being the conference doormat is not fun.

[Brandon]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

The only school that has made some noises about moving up is Mesa. That's what player's parents told me a while back. Every other team including CSUP and Mines are absolutely happy to play at the DII level, where they belong. Much better to be a big fish in a small RMAC pond, than to be a small fish in a big FCS pond.

Even bigger point is this.....

If you spent $11 million more and got the publicity of Alabama, then it would probably be worth it. But only North Dakota State really gets any national play about their program and a big part of that is because of Carson Wentz and because they are always a "candidate" to move to the FBS.

Just because you "move up" doesn't mean you get a lot more publicity. I think the Frontier schools should move up to join with the GNAC, but I respect their cautious attitude about it because it doesn't bring TONS more publicity playing Central Washington than it does playing Montana State Northern. Yes, it's more, but they have to weigh the costs versus the gains. None of the current WAC schools move the needle.

[Brandon]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

Over on the Big Sky Conference message board, some Bear fans post messages opining that UNC made a serious mistake moving to the FCS level. Many wish they were back at the DII level. Being the conference doormat is not fun.

They could have a great rivalry with Pueblo.

They were a SCARY team in D2.

[Brandon]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

There are always a few psychological phenomenons that happen when these moves are speculated.

Risky Shift Phenomenon

Description: When people are in groups, they make decision about risk differently from when they are alone. In the group, they are likely to make riskier decisions, as the shared risk makes the individual risk less.

A lot of the NCC schools were affected by this.

Reciprocal LikingJealousy and Inferiority

I can't find a perfect definition online, but you all have seen this happen time and time again on this board.

Let's say Pittsburg State gets an invite from the Missouri Valley Conference and it's announced that PSU is hiring a consulting company. Immediately, Central Missouri fans wonder why they didn't get the invite, list reasons why they are as good a candidate or better than Pitt State, and start to complain to their AD that they should be D1 as well.

[Runnin' Cat]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

No doubt. :smile-big:

That said, the WAC and Dixie would not be saying and doing these things unless some interest has been expressed by other schools. I can't see NMSU moving down, but I could see CWU, Dixie, Mesa, CSUP, possibly Mines, Asuza all moving up. And maybe this is the opening for Grand Canyon to start football, as they wanted a couple of years ago. Maybe even a couple of Big Sky teams move out.

Where there is smoke, there is fire....

There is ZERO chance that CWU will move up. There is close to 0% chance CWU would look at moving up.

At a minimum, CWU would have to increase its athletic budget nearly 3x,and that is not considering the upgrade in facilities.

[Runnin' Cat]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

Even bigger point is this.....

If you spent $11 million more and got the publicity of Alabama, then it would probably be worth it. But only North Dakota State really gets any national play about their program and a big part of that is because of Carson Wentz and because they are always a "candidate" to move to the FBS.

Just because you "move up" doesn't mean you get a lot more publicity. I think the Frontier schools should move up to join with the GNAC, but I respect their cautious attitude about it because it doesn't bring TONS more publicity playing Central Washington than it does playing Montana State Northern. Yes, it's more, but they have to weigh the costs versus the gains. None of the current WAC schools move the needle.

One big consideration for moving from the NAIA is that the NCAA is richer and post season costs are covered. Carroll drops a lot of dough in NAIA championships travel.

[Lobo]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

They could have a great rivalry with Pueblo.

They were a SCARY team in D2.

UNC doesn't scare anybody these days, except distraught Bear fans. That program has been in disarray for some time. CSUP recruits Colorado much better than UNC. CSUP would beat UNC regularly if the two teams played annually. The Mines would beat the Bears also. UNC won't play top level RMAC teams like it did in the past. We all know why ...

[ccmoney8]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...-i-status.html

A few things about this that make sense:

1) Most of the current WAC schools are sitting ducks for other conferences to expand, so for them, timing and geography are both critical for the conference to continue to exist.
2) Football also adds to conference stability by making the stakes much higher for schools to realign. Just on name recognition, they could probably pull in several FCS schools instantly.
3) Dixie is one of the fastest growing schools in the fastest growing metro area in the country. Long term, they're expected to be a campus of 20k in a city of 500k. Think that's one of the keys to getting its budget where it needs to be.
4) Dixie also needs a new sponsor for its stadium, and the value of those naming rights go up in this scenario.
5) MSU Denver (RMAC non-football) has also released an exploration of joining the WAC. Easy to assume those aren't the only two.
https://roadrunnersathletics.com/new...ity-study.aspx
6) At the FCS conference level, men's basketball drives revenue, not football. Since the last big split, the WAC hasn't won an NCAA tourney game and has gotten one bid per year. Both of these schools have healthy basketball programs.
7) Conferences also look for metro areas to bump the value of broadcast rights. That also works in MSUD's favor, as well as Dixie, long-term. Dixie could host a conference tourney a couple hours away in Vegas
8) This might be the opportunity that some of the wannabe FCS schools in the Lone Star have been waiting for.

[Tech Boys]

Re: Dixie State considering a move to D1

A few things about this that make sense:

1) Most of the current WAC schools are sitting ducks for other conferences to expand, so for them, timing and geography are both critical for the conference to continue to exist.
2) Football also adds to conference stability by making the stakes much higher for schools to realign. Just on name recognition, they could probably pull in several FCS schools instantly.
3) Dixie is one of the fastest growing schools in the fastest growing metro area in the country. Long term, they're expected to be a campus of 20k in a city of 500k. Think that's one of the keys to getting its budget where it needs to be.
4) Dixie also needs a new sponsor for its stadium, and the value of those naming rights go up in this scenario.
5) MSU Denver (RMAC non-football) has also released an exploration of joining the WAC. Easy to assume those aren't the only two.
https://roadrunnersathletics.com/new...ity-study.aspx
6) At the FCS conference level, men's basketball drives revenue, not football. Since the last big split, the WAC hasn't won an NCAA tourney game and has gotten one bid per year. Both of these schools have healthy basketball programs.
7) Conferences also look for metro areas to bump the value of broadcast rights. That also works in MSUD's favor, as well as Dixie, long-term. Dixie could host a conference tourney a couple hours away in Vegas
8) This might be the opportunity that some of the wannabe FCS schools in the Lone Star have been waiting for.

To convert point 6) to $s:

https://herosports.com/ncaa-tourname...ball-fund-a7a7

The WAC received a $1,711,784.00 payout in 2017 for the D1 men's basketball tournament. That is roughly what the conference has earned each of the last few years due to playing only one game. The 8 WAC schools get an equal share (if the WAC uses this method) of $213,973 per year and with 9 schools the share drops to $190,198 per year. If I'm not missing something, that doesn't seem to be much revenue for the enormous expense of being a D1 program. It's barely enough to cover the costs of scholarships for the basketball team and reclassifying schools don't see any of that money.