West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

In two recent games, chuckie had 7 pts and 9 points. Playing about 25 minutes a game.
Saw a quote he made after a JUCO showcase naming some lower d1 schools that expressed interest depending on how this season went, etc.

Many kids are much better off playing d2 than going d1 in terms to playing in Europe.
Can we agree that he is not going to the NBA? Get a degree that will get you a good job, Chuckie!

DII is a pretty good road to Europe...provided you are productive. I think Chucky could have been a productive player at WLU, I just didn't think he was as good as some of us postulated after his signing. I think he would have been a good freshman cog in the WLU machine last year and would have gained valuable experience. Given our graduations and the two transfers from last year, there's a good chance he would have been in the hunt for a starting spot and as a minimum probably would have been one of the primary bench players.

I wonder if with 20/20 hind sight, he ever wishes he had not listened to the bug in his ear that told him he was D1 caliber.

Interesting to note that after leaving Polk after last season, apparently neither WLU or Nova chose to make him an offer.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Hahahaha! Ball would be a good bench player for IUP!!

Chucky could play and had potential. But I think we kind of went over the top last year in our praise of him. Had he come to WLU, we would probably see him in the starting lineup or at least see him getting major minutes this year. He could be at a D1 next season but I don't think it will be the level that his "handlers" or the former Polk College coach convinced him he should be playing at. Don't think Duke or Kentucky or even Pitt is going to come calling, offer in hand. More likely he plays at the Wofford, YSU or Towson level D1 ORRRRR at a quality DII. Speaking about the "biblical figure," wonder why Chucky isn't playing at Nova?

Any info on how he's doing at Harcum? Their web site doesn't list any player stats.

In two recent games, chuckie had 7 pts and 9 points. Playing about 25 minutes a game.
Saw a quote he made after a JUCO showcase naming some lower d1 schools that expressed interest depending on how this season went, etc.

Many kids are much better off playing d2 than going d1 in terms to playing in Europe.
Can we agree that he is not going to the NBA? Get a degree that will get you a good job, Chuckie!

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Lol ...

Rumor is LiAngelo Ball was seen at the KCAC last night. He's available. I think Joe is running adds on Craig's List right now.


Chuckie's story isn't over yet. Let's see where he ends up after this season. He can play (or your biblical figure wouldn't have recruited him).

Hahahaha! Ball would be a good bench player for IUP!!

Chucky could play and had potential. But I think we kind of went over the top last year in our praise of him. Had he come to WLU, we would probably see him in the starting lineup or at least see him getting major minutes this year. He could be at a D1 next season but I don't think it will be the level that his "handlers" or the former Polk College coach convinced him he should be playing at. Don't think Duke or Kentucky or even Pitt is going to come calling, offer in hand. More likely he plays at the Wofford, YSU or Towson level D1 ORRRRR at a quality DII. Speaking about the "biblical figure," wonder why Chucky isn't playing at Nova?

Any info on how he's doing at Harcum? Their web site doesn't list any player stats.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Lol ...

Rumor is LiAngelo Ball was seen at the KCAC last night. He's available. I think Joe is running adds on Craig's List right now.


Chuckie's story isn't over yet. Let's see where he ends up after this season. He can play (or your biblical figure wouldn't have recruited him).

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

In the Where are they now version of former Hilltopper Players

Beau Justice at Valdosta St averaging 19.9 ppg. Shooting darn near 50% from 3, 28-60. Impressive. 30 mins / game (8 games)

Clay Guillozet at Valdosta St, averaging 9.5 ppg, shooting very poorly...2-13 from 3, and 16-30 from FT...20 mins / game (8 games)
Valdosta is 7-1.
David Dennis at Nova SE, averaging 17 ppg, 7 reb, 7 assists, Team is 6-0 and ranked for first time...

Three pretty good players who left the hilltop...I was disappointed when Justice left...thought he could have been really good...looks like he is...


That being said, I like this HIlltopper team...Play with great effort..and attitude...

Were did last season pre-season projected "All World" player Chucky Humphries end up going and how is he doing? After decommitting from WLU, he played one season at Polk CC in hopes of gaining the D1 offer he felt he deserved. Read one article that he was enrolled at JUCO Harcum College this year. Wonder if Chucky would like a "do over" of his decommitting from WLU?? Hey...Isn't Joe looking for a guard??

Also, were is former Topper Marco Columbo? He transferred to Notre Dame after his freshman year on the Hilltop and then fell off the edge of the earth.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

After being picked to finish last in conference no less! Crutch is proving that the west lib success is not a one time aberration.

Nova only won 6 games all of last year! I have been watching their games online. Another non traditional coaching move- Dennis got a 4th foul early in the second half. After sitting him for about 3 minutes crutch put him back in and he played effectively but intelligently for the rest of Game and the overtime! When you recruit hi basketball iq players you can develop that trust!

I am puzzled. When will coaches whose teams are mired in mediocrity playing by the book try his approach? I think there are far more players who are fits for this style than the traditional center, power forward, etc style. Dominating players are few and far between and generally play for a few elite programs and rarely consider the have not programs.

Crutch has stated that size is not as big a factor in his selection process.

Imho, it is based on sound game theory and offsets the impact of bigs as well as talented, gifted athletes who can take difficult shots that often result in scores (at least on the playground) even though a teammate is open for a better shot.

Crutch's System seems to be an "either or" type thing...Either you're 100% committed to it or you run something else. Coaches are creatures of habit and the Crutch System is almost the opposite of everything the coaches have learned and played for their entire basketball lives. While I believe there are sufficient numbers of HS players that could be successful in the Crutch System, these players often are not the "Grade A" recruits that coaches salivate over. The skill sets these players have are not things coaches typically look for as the primary attributes in the players they recruit...While things like "unselfishness" or "ability to run" or "willingness to play full court D" or "ability (and willingness) to pass" or "relentness" and "ability to hit 3's under pressure" are talked about by coaches, they don't usually favor those things over more traditional measures.

But I think the biggest thing that prevents coaches from making the switch to the Crutch System is physical condition. In short, if a coach tried to condition his "traditional recruited" team to play at the level of a Crutch System team, probably half the team would quit by the end of the first week. Probably the only time a coach would be able to make the change would be when the coach was a new hire to a bad team were he could bring in 4+ Crutch System recruits (transfer or HS) OR on a team that was senior heavy the previous year so the coach could bring in 4+ Crutch System recruits. Either way they would need to hope at least three of the returning players buy into the changes and are capable of being successful in it.

But I do expect that there will be a couple of coaches over the next few years that try to run the Crutch System. If they have success, the number of programs will increase.

[IUP Extra Mile]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

In the Where are they now version of former Hilltopper Players

Beau Justice at Valdosta St averaging 19.9 ppg. Shooting darn near 50% from 3, 28-60. Impressive. 30 mins / game (8 games)

Clay Guillozet at Valdosta St, averaging 9.5 ppg, shooting very poorly...2-13 from 3, and 16-30 from FT...20 mins / game (8 games)
Valdosta is 7-1.
David Dennis at Nova SE, averaging 17 ppg, 7 reb, 7 assists, Team is 6-0 and ranked for first time...

Three pretty good players who left the hilltop...I was disappointed when Justice left...thought he could have been really good...looks like he is...


That being said, I like this HIlltopper team...Play with great effort..and attitude...

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

And they sit alone atop the Sunshine State Conference!

After being picked to finish last in conference no less! Crutch is proving that the west lib success is not a one time aberration.

Nova only won 6 games all of last year! I have been watching their games online. Another non traditional coaching move- Dennis got a 4th foul early in the second half. After sitting him for about 3 minutes crutch put him back in and he played effectively but intelligently for the rest of Game and the overtime! When you recruit hi basketball iq players you can develop that trust!

I am puzzled. When will coaches whose teams are mired in mediocrity playing by the book try his approach? I think there are far more players who are fits for this style than the traditional center, power forward, etc style. Dominating players are few and far between and generally play for a few elite programs and rarely consider the have not programs.

Crutch has stated that size is not as big a factor in his selection process.

Imho, it is based on sound game theory and offsets the impact of bigs as well as talented, gifted athletes who can take difficult shots that often result in scores (at least on the playground) even though a teammate is open for a better shot.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Nova has won back to back OT games to be 6-0, previous game was 3 OTs

And they sit alone atop the Sunshine State Conference!

[Layton]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Nova has won back to back OT games to be 6-0, previous game was 3 OTs

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

We point at WLU's tremendous 3 point shooting as the reason for their success and that certainly plays a major part (WLU is always willing to trade 2's for 3's). But the straw that truly stirs the WLU drink is the constant harassing defense. Even when they aren't working the press at 100%, they are still constantly in the face of the guy bring the ball up and looking to jump passes. Over the course of a game, this wears all but the most aerobically fit players out and you start to see the black-out that Columbus talks about. Tonight the victim was a good Notre Dame squad. ND hung with WLU for the first five minutes of the game and in fact has a 3 point lead. Blackout occurred and over the next three minutes WLU turned that 3 point deficit into an 8 point lead which they stretched a 16 point half time lead. ND was able to wittle that down to 5 points over the first half of the second half but then the blackout occurred again and WLU pushed out to a 14 point lead over the next two minutes and ultimately coasted to a 19 point W 103-84.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Valid way of looking at it.

What I've never understood about the MEC is why teams get in to that with them ... i.e. let WL dictate the pace.

The last time IUP played them they did everything possible to slow the game down and it worked. WL hated playing at that pace and they were visibly frustrated (2014 Regional final).

I've noticed Wheeling does a fairly good job of slowing it, too.

Point being if you're an MEC doormat team and you lose to WL by 40 every time you try and run with them ... why keep doing it? It's like the definition of insanity.

Good point. Well coached teams like iup and wju seemed to be able to resist the urge to speed up. The players also do what their coaches tell them.

For other schools I think some coaches seem to think that against west liberty you attack the basket when you break the press to get layups. But if they are not comfortable in an open court game it often backfires. As they get tired they start missing shots they would normally make and start making bad passes

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Valid way of looking at it.

What I've never understood about the MEC is why teams get in to that with them ... i.e. let WL dictate the pace.

The last time IUP played them they did everything possible to slow the game down and it worked. WL hated playing at that pace and they were visibly frustrated (2014 Regional final).

I've noticed Wheeling does a fairly good job of slowing it, too.

Point being if you're an MEC doormat team and you lose to WL by 40 every time you try and run with them ... why keep doing it? It's like the definition of insanity.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

It's funny how the two leagues compare defense. What you call incredible intensity and pressure still has the losing team scoring almost 100 points. In the PSAC scoring in the 80s is like an offensive shootout.


It's amazing how different the two leagues are when it comes to average scores, style, etc.

They are just different styles of play. As Crutch said, you can win with many different styles, as long as you execute it.
Many traditional teams don't seriously start looking for a good shot until there are 15 seconds left on the shot clock. That tends to hold scores down and number of possessions per game.
Half-court defense and rebounding becomes dominant in more deliberate styles.

Looking at scores alone is probably not a reliable indicator of defensive intensity. West Lib wants to maximize the number of possessions and maximize the points per possession (i.e., 3 pt shot still beats a dunk). Their steals and forced turnovers per game reflects their intensity and effort. They are expending incredible amounts of energy. When I first saw West Lib play in 2009, I thought they must have been cross country runners, for they pressed while only playing 7 guys and were in unbelievable aerobic condition.

Of course, as West Liberty scores quickly, it gives the opponent more possessions (less turnovers) so the scores tend to be higher. Also the West Lib pressure can result in easy baskets for the opponent early in the shot clock, which improves the opponents score. The interesting thing about West Lib is that they rarely take bad shots, even though they are not playing slow.

West Lib style relies on traps on makes, traps on misses. Guys are coming at you from all kinds of different angles. West lib guys are running their guts out trying to generate turnovers. I think most would agree (at least Bob Huggins) that playing against double-team pressing teams is much more stressful than playing against a good defense in a half-court game.

As a result, the opponent's offense is out of sync as they get into their offense late and they tend to rush their shots from the pressure. This pressure wears on teams mentally and physically, resulting in what some call mini-blackouts, where the opponent just falls apart for 4 or 5 minutes.

For example, against Urbana, with about 11 minutes left in 1st half, West Lib led 23-18. Urbana was holding up fairly well against the pressure. Then the cumulative pressure started to take its toll and the blackout occurred - three 5 second calls, guys throwing passes over the heads into the stands, steals for layups, etc.
At the end of the half, the score was 66-35.

Although I appreciate both styles, I wonder why more teams don't adopt the West Lib style and recruit for it. Crutch is 5-0 (for the first time in history of Nova SE) with the existing players and 3 true freshman he recruited late, after being picked to finish last in their conference. I have come to realize that this style can offset the dominance of big inside guys or great playground players.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

It's funny how the two leagues compare defense. What you call incredible intensity and pressure still has the losing team scoring almost 100 points. In the PSAC scoring in the 80s is like an offensive shootout.


It's amazing how different the two leagues are when it comes to average scores, style, etc.