West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[boatcapt]

A lot of intersting points in your post

just some guesses:
Re: 1 : Big men at 230 lbs tire faster than guards so giving up the ball reduces their fatigue mentally and physically.. Also Dante knows to break down a defense in transition. The bigs are attempting to make a quick outlet pass when it is open, which is faster than dribbling.
Re: 2. The melding of all new players is still a work in progress. Of the starting 5 on Sat. only muldowney and Dante had played in the system last year. It will take some time. It looks like opponents are making us beat them from three by packing the inside. But wlu does not want to settle for just threes, especially early in the shot clock, so they rotate the ball looking for an inside pass.

This rush to position less in every player bring the ball up is a relatively new "thing" for WLU. As I recall, back when Mike was playing here, the ball pretty quickly transitioned to Cedric Harris' hands on almost every possession and he triggered the offense. He was followed by the Faithful/Arnold duo, then Dave Dennis filled the PG role pretty dagg gone well. The first "big" I recall bring the ball up with any regularity was Dalton Bolon in 2018 (?). From right around that point, it sort of became who ever get's the ball in the back court brings it up. While that worked OK and we where successful, I think our half court offense kind of suffered. In fact, the last really good offense I recall from the Toppers was under Luke Dyer as the PG. He rarely shot (although, when he did, it was almost always a DAGGER) but he seemed to always have us in our half court flow correctly. I would argue that the WLU system can work pretty good having the ball in a dedicated PG's hand...I'd put WLU's teams lead by Harris or Dennis or even Luke Dyer up against this years WLU team and last years as well...Even though they weren't as "position less" or "athletically gifted" as we are now.

But all I really know for certain is that we are shooting .314 from three which is to lowest of any WLU team in over 10 years. Given WLU's historic reliance on the 3 to build leads and win many games over many years, I fear .314 ain't going to get us there.

[Columbuseer]

I'll be interested to see what Columbus's take is, but after these last few games two things I've noticed (that might signal a sea change in WLU philosophy):

1. They have looked much more "positionful" than positionless. When a defensive rebound was claimed last night, the rebounder immediately looked for Spadafora to bring it up. Under Crutch & Ben, rebounders themselves would have started the run. Waiting for a guard to check back to the ball after a defensive rebound is making them slower on offense (and giving defenses time to get set and get quick rests). In addition, they seemed much more "positionful" defensively yesterday when it became clear they couldn't defend a pick and roll. WLU has a history of switching on every pick (because in positionless basketball a "five" can guard an opponent's one). Yesterday, Shepherd was just running an old-school high post pick and roll and when WLU switched on the pick, Shepherd's point simply beat WLU's "five" to the rack. If WLU doesn't have "bigs" who can guard, positionless basketball doesn't work. Pound-it teams like Shepherd (and VUU for that matter) will simply keep running picks and pound it inside. Being more "positionful" doesn't suit WLU, because their bigs can't match real bigs. And waiting for the guard to bring it up is slowing them down.

2. To that last point, the second observation is that WLU appears to be much more deliberate on offense. I've never seen so many near shot-clock violations in a WLU season and we're only 4 games in. They appear to want to, like, run sets. On several occasions last night, Dante was visibly frustrated at a younger player's messing up a set by making the wrong cut. But that in and of itself made it clear that they're actually running set plays. And that's fine--most of college basketball does. But that is also slowing WLU down. They're far less fluid and reactive than in years past. There is far less "figure-it-out" on the part of the players and more reliance on something pre-planned.

Like I said, I'm far less knowledgeable on the technical aspects of basketball than Columbus, so I'll be interested to hear his take. But to your point, Boat, I suspect my two humble (and hopefully on target) observations are what's resulting in scores in the 80s.

A lot of intersting points in your post

just some guesses:
Re: 1 : Big men at 230 lbs tire faster than guards so giving up the ball reduces their fatigue mentally and physically.. Also Dante knows to break down a defense in transition. The bigs are attempting to make a quick outlet pass when it is open, which is faster than dribbling.
Re: 2. The melding of all new players is still a work in progress. Of the starting 5 on Sat. only muldowney and Dante had played in the system last year. It will take some time. It looks like opponents are making us beat them from three by packing the inside. But wlu does not want to settle for just threes, especially early in the shot clock, so they rotate the ball looking for an inside pass.

[Columbuseer]

A Dummy’s Observations on WLU vs Shepherd University 11/22/25 WLU 89 – Shepherd 81

Shepherd (SU) Game Plan
SU is a well-coached team with excellent, athletic, 1-on-1 players who are good scorers and are comfortable in
aggressively attacking the basket. They average 37% 3FG as a team, with two starters averaging over 40% from
three. They come into the game undefeated, having beaten three CIAA teams, which is an impressive feat. They are
strong in 1-on-1 defense, too. They have strong guards, led by Banks, who is a great scorer. They also have a 6-11
center. They tend to play starters heavy minutes, but they will try to sub 3 players at a time to give some players
rest. This decision is fraught with risk, as it is very difficult to withstand the pressure for an entire game while playing
starters so many minutes.

The SU strategy seemed to be:
• PASSED – Avoid an up-and-down game with WLU. When they break the press, their strategy is to set up
offense and not take threes or attack the rim in transition.
• PASSED - Pack the inside to limit interior shots by Muldowney and Lattos and entice WLU to shoot the three.
Sometimes, WLU can get enamored by the three and take them early in the shot clock to the detriment of
good inside looks and and-ones.
• PASSED – In the half-court offense, attack WLU inside with their quick guards. As one example, Banks shoots
40% from three and is difficult to defend on the dribble drive. SU will take the three if it is an open look.
• PASSED – Limit turnovers. SU had 12 turnovers, with most of these coming in the first half.
• FAILED – Keep the WLU score under 80. Although SU held WLU to a 38-35 lead at the half, WLU scored 51
points in the second half.
• FAILED – Dominate the boards. WLU won the rebounding battle 43-42 and limited SU to only 9 offensive
rebounds.
• FAILED – Avoid playing starters heavy minutes. Only six players played over 12 minutes, with three players
playing over 31 minutes. Although SU managed to avoid turnovers, with only 12 turnovers for the game,
fatigue became apparent in the second half in their half-court defense, leading to some good inside looks for
WLU.

Keys to the WLU Game
WLU is still trying different combinations of platoons. For this game, WLU started two freshmen and both
Muldowney and Lattos. Many players are close in ability, so the decision may depend on getting the best matchup
with the opponent.
WLU played with great effort, subbing frequently in an effort to tire out SU. This strategy became effective in the
second half, where Shepherd seemed to be a step slow in their half-court defense. WLU’s offensive efficiency rating
was average (for WLU) at 115 due to missing many 3FG attempts, versus 104 for SU (points per 100 possessions).
D1 90th percentile is 113.
• IMHO, the difference in the game was West Liberty’s committing only 4 turnovers, winning the rebounding
battle and getting 79 field goal attempts to only 63 for SU. This compensated for a relatively poor shooting
night for WLU.
• The rapid pace of WLU made the 6-11 center for SU a non-factor as he only played 5 minutes.
• WLU shared the ball well. WLU had 53% of goals from assists to only 41% for SU. 90th percentile for D1 is
59.8%
• WLU rebounded well against a very athletic SU, limiting SU offensive rebounds to 9.
• WLU used better judgment in limiting inside fouls, with no WLU player with more than 3 fouls. It is important
for our big men to stay out of foul trouble.

Areas for Improvement for WLU
• WLU needs to improve FT %, shooting only 65%.
• WLU needs to increase focus on getting layups and reducing reliance on threes. By getting the ball inside,
WLU can draw fouls and possibly get key opponents in foul trouble. It also increases the likelihood for
offensive rebounds.
• IMHO, taller players need to play lower in their defensive stance against quicker, smaller players to get their
center of gravity lower than their opponent. It will improve their lateral movement reaction time to cut off dribble
drives and allow faster jumping to block a shot because their key muscles are already compressed and ready
for an explosive upward jump. Before college, many tall players are used to defending opponents by standing
tall to intimidate opponents. This has limited impact at college, because of the greater quickness and athletic
ability of opponents to dribble drive past players standing too tall on defense.

[Scrub]

I'll be interested to see what Columbus's take is, but after these last few games two things I've noticed (that might signal a sea change in WLU philosophy):

1. They have looked much more "positionful" than positionless. When a defensive rebound was claimed last night, the rebounder immediately looked for Spadafora to bring it up. Under Crutch & Ben, rebounders themselves would have started the run. Waiting for a guard to check back to the ball after a defensive rebound is making them slower on offense (and giving defenses time to get set and get quick rests). In addition, they seemed much more "positionful" defensively yesterday when it became clear they couldn't defend a pick and roll. WLU has a history of switching on every pick (because in positionless basketball a "five" can guard an opponent's one). Yesterday, Shepherd was just running an old-school high post pick and roll and when WLU switched on the pick, Shepherd's point simply beat WLU's "five" to the rack. If WLU doesn't have "bigs" who can guard, positionless basketball doesn't work. Pound-it teams like Shepherd (and VUU for that matter) will simply keep running picks and pound it inside. Being more "positionful" doesn't suit WLU, because their bigs can't match real bigs. And waiting for the guard to bring it up is slowing them down.

2. To that last point, the second observation is that WLU appears to be much more deliberate on offense. I've never seen so many near shot-clock violations in a WLU season and we're only 4 games in. They appear to want to, like, run sets. On several occasions last night, Dante was visibly frustrated at a younger player's messing up a set by making the wrong cut. But that in and of itself made it clear that they're actually running set plays. And that's fine--most of college basketball does. But that is also slowing WLU down. They're far less fluid and reactive than in years past. There is far less "figure-it-out" on the part of the players and more reliance on something pre-planned.

Like I said, I'm far less knowledgeable on the technical aspects of basketball than Columbus, so I'll be interested to hear his take. But to your point, Boat, I suspect my two humble (and hopefully on target) observations are what's resulting in scores in the 80s.

[boatcapt]

Well THAT was ugly. We suddenly seem to have forgotten how to score out of the 80's...VERY un-West Liberty like. We where even out shot from 3 (30.3% to 33.3%). We where also out rebounded and generally out played in almost every facet of the game.

Mike has some figuring out to do.

Oh...FYI, we won 89-81 over Shepherd. I win is a win but man...

[Columbuseer]

That's a fair point . . . and a scary thought. Because there were times last night they didn't look like a 13-win team. I did like the fight down the stretch--they never folded the tents. And I trust they'll get SOME stuff figured out.

We do definitely have to give props to Union. That's an extremely well coached team that came in with a very specific plan and executed it.

But I don't think I've ever seen a Hilltopper team turn it over 23 times. And now that's on film. So every WV State, Concord, & Glenville that has half decent athletes on its roster has a blueprint for making this edition of the Hilltoppers look very pedestrian. Really concerning.

Scrub- Excellent, mature, intelligent insights. Thanks for posting.
I really was impressed by the VU press. They channeled the dribbler to the sideline and did not foul, but tried to force a high risk pass. The other defenders were playing off their wlu opponent, inviting the pass and then breaking on the ball. To conserve energy they played zone. Wlu got open looks but they just would not fall. Glad it is Nov. Plenty of time to fix the issues, for nothing I saw cannot be corrected as they get more time playing together.

[boatcapt]

That's a fair point . . . and a scary thought. Because there were times last night they didn't look like a 13-win team. I did like the fight down the stretch--they never folded the tents. And I trust they'll get SOME stuff figured out.

We do definitely have to give props to Union. That's an extremely well coached team that came in with a very specific plan and executed it.

But I don't think I've ever seen a Hilltopper team turn it over 23 times. And now that's on film. So every WV State, Concord, & Glenville that has half decent athletes on its roster has a blueprint for making this edition of the Hilltoppers look very pedestrian. Really concerning.

My major and immediate concern is we are shooting .318 from 3. WLU teams have lived (and died) on their 3 point shooting. We where supposed to have a stable of .400+ 3 point shooters the likes of which we haven't seen in the Hilltop since Crutch's early days (if ever). Yea, we are only 3 games into the season and there is plenty of time to turn around, but the early returns aren't looking as great as we hoped.

I'd say right now we are trending toward a 20 win season. Most schools would be giddy with a 20 win season...but WLU ain't most schools.

[Scrub]

The question is, how much can they grow? They brought in seven players with experience playing the System and with the two holdovers, there doesn't seem to be much room for growing into the System. Sure, there will be a degree of growth, but I don't think it will be a "light bulb turning on" ahaa sort of growth

I think by and large, this team is what it is. Unclear yet weather that is a 30 win one that glides into the NCAA tourney as the #1 seed or a 20 win one that struggles for the 8th seed.

That's a fair point . . . and a scary thought. Because there were times last night they didn't look like a 13-win team. I did like the fight down the stretch--they never folded the tents. And I trust they'll get SOME stuff figured out.

We do definitely have to give props to Union. That's an extremely well coached team that came in with a very specific plan and executed it.

But I don't think I've ever seen a Hilltopper team turn it over 23 times. And now that's on film. So every WV State, Concord, & Glenville that has half decent athletes on its roster has a blueprint for making this edition of the Hilltoppers look very pedestrian. Really concerning.

[boatcapt]

The story of this game was a typical story for a WLU game: tenacious defense, causing lots of turnovers, and an effective press. The problem is all of those attributes were on the Panthers' side of the ledger tonight. Hats off to VUU for playing a strong game. The Hilltoppers gotta grow up from this one.

The question is, how much can they grow? They brought in seven players with experience playing the System and with the two holdovers, there doesn't seem to be much room for growing into the System. Sure, there will be a degree of growth, but I don't think it will be a "light bulb turning on" ahaa sort of growth

I think by and large, this team is what it is. Unclear yet weather that is a 30 win one that glides into the NCAA tourney as the #1 seed or a 20 win one that struggles for the 8th seed.

[Scrub]

The story of this game was a typical story for a WLU game: tenacious defense, causing lots of turnovers, and an effective press. The problem is all of those attributes were on the Panthers' side of the ledger tonight. Hats off to VUU for playing a strong game. The Hilltoppers gotta grow up from this one.

[Scrub]

This is an absolute smackdown. WLU is a turnover machine right now (and not in the good way)

[Scrub]

This doesn't look like a very good basketball team right now. Serious concerns in Richmond right now.

[boatcapt]

In watching the replay, some of the threes were taken off the dribble and a jump stop. That is a much harder 3 pt shot to make. Ideally, the shooter should receive a pass with their feet already set and in shooting position - a catch and shoot. Shooting position.should improve once they get more comfortable with each other. Some players were better in getting in the catch and shoot position last game.
3fgs
Muldowney 4-6. 67%
Lattos 1-2. 50%
Pankey 1-2 50%
Hurray 2-5. 40%
Davis 1-3 33.3% one of his shots counted as 2 so he was close to 2-4 and 50%.

Of course, there is high individual variation in % from game to game.

Also a high variance when you take 2 shots. Only 3 possible pct's - 0%, 50%, or 100%.

[Columbuseer]

In watching the replay, some of the threes were taken off the dribble and a jump stop. That is a much harder 3 pt shot to make. Ideally, the shooter should receive a pass with their feet already set and in shooting position - a catch and shoot. Shooting position.should improve once they get more comfortable with each other. Some players were better in getting in the catch and shoot position last game.
3fgs
Muldowney 4-6. 67%
Lattos 1-2. 50%
Pankey 1-2 50%
Hurray 2-5. 40%
Davis 1-3 33.3% one of his shots counted as 2 so he was close to 2-4 and 50%.

Of course, there is high individual variation in % from game to game.

[Columbuseer]

The ****ty technical was the turning point.

I rewatched the play. Imho it was called because the play was over and Clayton took two steps carrying the ball after the foul was called and pushed montgomery in the back sending him to the floor. It was just too obvious. He needed to be more subtle, like his teammate who sent butler flying to floor on the previous play under the basket. That play might have also alerted the refs to get control.

I think the cumulative effect of fatigue was the turning point in both halves, with cal started getting a step slow and not winning 50-50 balls. The timing just happened to coincide with the techncal. They played 5 guys over 30 minutes. WLU had a true shooting % over 60% and much of it was due to cal's fatigue that resulted in easy looks.