West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[boatcapt]

I hope you are right.
never can tell with ncaa.
I remember the line,
" ncaa is so upset with Kansas for paying players that they put cleveland state on probation".

we have teams using 3rd parties to tamper with d1 players during the season and the ncaa is all worried about d1 scrimmage box scores. That is what drives d1 sports commentators crazy about ncaa.

Not just tampering with D1 players. I recall an interview with one of the cats that had signed with us saying in an interview that he had let it be known that he was interested in D1 at an all star game and "his people" heard from the D1 saying they would offer him if he just backed out on WLU. He did and the next day signed with the D1.

Don't know what the NCAAs tampering rules are, but that sounds a lot like tampering

[Columbuseer]

Probably one of those rules that is roundly ignored by all parties. Not an issue until someone starts blatantly ignoring it (ie a school starts charging admission or sending bus loads of fans to away scrimmages) or starts claiming a particular result in public. I mean...it's a scrimmage at the DII level...if you are a fan and you get in to watch, cool...if you don't, that's a bummer

I hope you are right.
never can tell with ncaa.
I remember the line,
" ncaa is so upset with Kansas for paying players that they put cleveland state on probation".

we have teams using 3rd parties to tamper with d1 players during the season and the ncaa is all worried about d1 scrimmage box scores. That is what drives d1 sports commentators crazy about ncaa.

[boatcapt]

Probably one of those rules that is roundly ignored by all parties. Not an issue until someone starts blatantly ignoring it (ie a school starts charging admission or sending bus loads of fans to away scrimmages) or starts claiming a particular result in public. I mean...it's a scrimmage at the DII level...if you are a fan and you get in to watch, cool...if you don't, that's a bummer

[Columbuseer]

Team-essential personnel doesn't include fans of any sort - quiet or not.

Trust me, I could care less if some old townies want to watch a practice. But, I do believe it is a NCAA rule no fans allowed. Obviously it's not very well enforced at the levels of D2 and D3. D1 can make jokes about them being secret but the doors are locked.

I agree that d1 is a whole different animal with mega $ involved, with stealing signs in football by high academic schools, etc. Ncaa does not want 10k crazy d1 fans showng up. D1 keeps score but does not publicize box score.


At d2 you might have 20 parents and boosters show up.

I am only focused on d2, as d1 is out of scope of my interest.

But to be on the safe side, I will no longer post info on scrimmage after it is completed.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I thought that you asserted that it was closed. I agree that it is not publicized.
But there are no guards at the gate. There are students who wander in. But attendees know to keep their mouths shut and just observe so that coaches can coach.

Team-essential personnel doesn't include fans of any sort - quiet or not.

Trust me, I could care less if some old townies want to watch a practice. But, I do believe it is a NCAA rule no fans allowed. Obviously it's not very well enforced at the levels of D2 and D3. D1 can make jokes about them being secret but the doors are locked.

[Columbuseer]

I've always been told scrimmages (against another school) cannot be advertised, schools cannot reveal scores or stats and only team-essential participants can attend.

Personally, I have never seen a PSAC program advertise a scrimmage as being open to the public.

Exhibitions are different, obviously.

That is certainly a policy in D1 (which gets major flack).

I thought that you asserted that it was closed. I agree that it is not publicized.
But there are no guards at the gate at any of 10+ d2 scrimmages that I have attended. There are students who wander in. But attendees are mature enough to know to keep their mouths shut and just observe so that coaches can coach. D1 announcers make jokes about the so-called secret scrimmages that everyone knows about.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Is that a rule of PSAC? If so, don't tell anyone. I don't want to get Coach Sancomb in trouble. I went to one there about 4 years ago with about 30 other wlu fans. Some Cal folks were there too.

I was hoping some of the more serious wlu fans might read this board and could share. I will find out from them on Nov 10.

I've always been told scrimmages (against another school) cannot be advertised, schools cannot reveal scores or stats and only team-essential participants can attend.

Personally, I have never seen a PSAC program advertise a scrimmage as being open to the public.

Exhibitions are different, obviously.

That is certainly a policy in D1 (which gets major flack).

[Columbuseer]

Whom are you asking? PSAC scrimmages are closed to the public.

Is that a rule of PSAC? If so, don't tell anyone. I don't want to get Coach Sancomb in trouble. I went to one there about 4 years ago with about 30 other wlu fans. Some Cal folks were there too.

I was hoping some of the more serious wlu fans might read this board and could share. I will find out from them on Nov 10.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Any observations to share from wlu scrimmage at Cal pa tonight?

Whom are you asking? PSAC scrimmages are closed to the public.

[Columbuseer]

Any observations to share from wlu scrimmage at Cal pa tonight?

[boatcapt]

Fyi from ncaa:
The provisional process for NCAA Division III institutions and NAIA institutions is a minimum of three years, and the reclassification process for Division I institutions is a minimum of two years. The process includes opportunities for education, assessment and growth as institutions integrate the Division II philosophy, strategic positioning platform and best practices to be a model Division II institution.


So earliest d3 or naia to join mec would be 2026-27 season.
no one near mec has declared these intentions, so it might be 2027-28.

So the new members are likely coming from existing d2 or d1 going to d2, given commissioner's timeframe. No idea who.

For a lower division stepping up to DII, they need a DII conference sponsor. Take Frostburg as an example, they were sponsored by and a member of the MEC during their transition from D3 to DII. If memory serves me, Frostburg actually shared a MEC football title but was restricted from being selected for the NCAA playoffs because they were still in transition.

[Columbuseer]

Fyi from ncaa:
The provisional process for NCAA Division III institutions and NAIA institutions is a minimum of three years, and the reclassification process for Division I institutions is a minimum of two years. The process includes opportunities for education, assessment and growth as institutions integrate the Division II philosophy, strategic positioning platform and best practices to be a model Division II institution.


So earliest d3 or naia to join mec would be 2026-27 season.
no one near mec has declared these intentions, so it might be 2027-28.

So the new members are likely coming from existing d2 or d1 going to d2, given commissioner's timeframe. No idea who.

[boatcapt]

Because of their history in wviac, I would also hope that they are not a member. They only have 782 students. But their replacement of ab on basketball schedule could be a worrisome sign.

I would assume d2 schools in other conferences have to give a couple of years notice.
That leaves nearby d3 or naia schools. Must have 5 sports to qualify for d2.

pure conjecture:
Mt. Union - has football, 2250 students
capitol u - has football, in Columbus, 6000 students
Wvu tech - no football, 1600 students

Also, AB may not be the last school in MEC ar risk of closing in next 5 years.

I think WVTech makes much more sense than Salem. I've said before, this ain't the same WV Tech that dropped out of the WVIAC. New(ish) name, new campus and seem to have turned the enrollment corner and are headed up. It's been a year+ but at one point in the recent past, the then President was talking publicly about restarting football. If that is still their intention and they are willing to commit to a time line publically, I think they are a slam dunk for a MEC invitation.

Mt Union - WOW...go big or go home! In football, they would make the Frostburg climb to the top of the conference and make people wonder what took them sooo long! Instant contender...only thing that would hold them back would be the NCAA mandated transition period. Love to have them...but I don't see it happening.

Don't know much about Capitol U other than numbers on paper. Football .. Good. Enrollment numbers... Good. In Ohio so I'm assuming the NDC faithful would say...Good.

As I've said before, if I were king of the MEC, I would blow right past that 12 school limit we seem to have. We had a saying back when I was in the military, if you have 1...you have none, if you have 2, you have 1. Premise was that if you want a particular number of a thing, you need MORE than that number. SOOOO...If we want to consistently have 12 football playing schools, we need to have 13 (or even 14) so if one "breaks" (or quits), you're not left looking at Salem going, huuuummmm!

[Ship69]

We far too often forget on this board that, outside of this board, very few people actually care about D2 athletics. Your average sports fan doesn't know the difference between D2 and D3, let alone conference breakdowns.

Every league in D2 right now has schools in severe financial trouble. This current landscape will look drastically different in 10 years.

AB was just the start within our region. Personally, I'd rather just have a smaller league than start dumpster diving (Salem). I would assume Mansfield and Clarion will be the next to go, although Uncle Sam may keep them afloat.

With the five-year tuition freeze, Pa. officials finally seem to have caught on to the fact that price matters. But we're still expensive compared to some other states. People talk about the taxes in New York and they are high, but students who live in a household with $125,000 or less income can get free tuition at a SUNY university. I believe about 30 percent of students attending a PASSHE school come from households with incomes of $50,000 or less. SUNY is even competitive with PASSHE for out of state schools, which probably is not helping Mansfield.

[IUPalum]

We far too often forget on this board that, outside of this board, very few people actually care about D2 athletics. Your average sports fan doesn't know the difference between D2 and D3, let alone conference breakdowns.

Every league in D2 right now has schools in severe financial trouble. This current landscape will look drastically different in 10 years.

AB was just the start within our region. Personally, I'd rather just have a smaller league than start dumpster diving (Salem). I would assume Mansfield and Clarion will be the next to go, although Uncle Sam may keep them afloat.

I'm not so certain Clarion is next to go. There are others in worse financial status than them... aka Boro.