West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Where else are they going to see the top HS kids play all at the same time at the same place? I have witnessed gyms with Bill Self, Bob Huggins, Tom Izzo, and many others all there at the same time in the same gym watching certain AAU games. Big money operations.

Yep...It makes a "class" system were the only players that can hope to get noticed are those who have parents who can pay the $ to get their kid on a good AAU team and then pay to get them into the "right" "tournaments." If you happen to be a kid who's family is scraping by, well, too bad for you!!!

And the people making money are the "owners" of the AAU teams and the owners of these so called "showcase" tournaments.

[Dirtybird]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Where else are they going to see the top HS kids play all at the same time at the same place? I have witnessed gyms with Bill Self, Bob Huggins, Tom Izzo, and many others all there at the same time in the same gym watching certain AAU games. Big money operations.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

For the life of me, I don't know why the NCAA is in bed with the AAU or these tourneys. Guess it could be money as I'm sure the NCAA charges outfits like NY2LA pretty big $ to say they are an "NCAA D1 Sanctioned" event.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I think these companies are making money on both ends. The way I took the evaluation package fee NY2LA was charging coaches it was per player. Now granted every team is not going to pay for a package on every player but lets say 1/4 of the D1/DII programs pay for two packages, that's a cool $61,250 for NY2LA for one Tourney. In the upcoming NY2LA Spring Extravaganza there are 41 U17 team registered. At 10 players per team and using your lower figure of $130 per player, that's $53,300 in NY2LA's pockets before basketball one has hit the floor!!

I'm sure the amount of booster $ is signifigant. Simple scenario, booster comes in and tells the "owner/chief evaluator" for one of these showcases that he is paying for the player eval on a highly prized recruit to go to his school AND is paying the owner/evaluator $5,000 cash to do a parallel "evaluation" of this prized player that is critical of the players weaknesses and flaws which is distributed to every other school that pays for an eval of that player.

Good info boat. I wasn't aware of the other ways to get into the pockets of coaches. Other revenue sources:
1. The player's coach of the USABB team has to have a gold license, which is $142 a year.
2. If an assistant college choach attends, it is $100 for a ticket (no packet).
3. One DVD of a single game is $25! (even for 7th grade teams)
4. Also the entry fee for each team for the NY2LA is $575. From the instructions,it looks like the coach can build a roster Online. Wonder if they can cherry pick from other teams and charge players additional money to be on his team for this event only.
5. You have to stay at one of their preferred hotels to play (all three stars = $$$) - Must stay to play, so they might get a kickback from the hotels in exchange for a group rate. No hotwire for you!

What a racket!

Also, some high school coaches are complaining that these leagues are causing the players to develop really bad attitudes regarding teamwork and effort when they return to their high school. I saw this for the first time at a high school game near Columbus this year. There was one player who was starting who just kind of stood around aloof from his teammates on the court, watching them play their brains out as their opponent was driving them crazy with the trapping press. It was like he was a spectator on the court. I was thinking, "if I were the coach, his rear end would be on the bench!". I did not know who he was. This went on for 3 quarters and the game was close. In 4th quarter of a close game, he took over the game, hitting 3 after 3 and dribbling through the press. His team won and he calmly walked off the court. He is a high D1 recruit. I wouldn't hire him to take out the trash with that kind of attitude.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I think these services make $ from coaches but the market is small given there are less than 700 d1 and d2 schools

I think these companies are making money on both ends. The way I took the evaluation package fee NY2LA was charging coaches it was per player. Now granted every team is not going to pay for a package on every player but lets say 1/4 of the D1/DII programs pay for two packages, that's a cool $61,250 for NY2LA for one Tourney. In the upcoming NY2LA Spring Extravaganza there are 41 U17 team registered. At 10 players per team and using your lower figure of $130 per player, that's $53,300 in NY2LA's pockets before basketball one has hit the floor!!

I'm sure the amount of booster $ is signifigant. Simple scenario, booster comes in and tells the "owner/chief evaluator" for one of these showcases that he is paying for the player eval on a highly prized recruit to go to his school AND is paying the owner/evaluator $5,000 cash to do a parallel "evaluation" of this prized player that is critical of the players weaknesses and flaws which is distributed to every other school that pays for an eval of that player.

The real problem with this whole system is that there is nothing really illegal about it. There is a possible crime if you can prove fraud in the evaluation process, but beyond that, there is nothing inherently illegal about what these companies are doing...Shady, yes...Immoral, certainly...But not criminal. There MIGHT be a way to cross walk fraud charges over from mortgage fraud over appraisal laws but that would be a very tortured process that almost no States Attorney would take to court.

[Columbuseer]

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I know with 100 percent certainty that Slippery Rock signed players sight unseen -- both ways -- for years under Kevin Reynolds. They never saw the players (or met them) in person. The players never visited campus. He made a living working connections and recruiting via the internet. Hence, The Island of Misfit Toys.

At this level (any level anymore) .. the high school recruit is a financial risk. It used to be there was the fear they'd leave if they got redshirted. Now, the fear is they leave if they start as a true freshman (Yahel Hill, etc.).

I don't like the one-and-done transfer. Every decade you'll get a Shawn Dyer. But, for the most part that path is no good. I tend to prefer the Anthony Glover types ... transfers coming down with 2-3 years eligibility. They've already 'played up' a year so that's hopefully out of their system, etc.

I agree with everything you said.

I say that "recruiting has changed" in the Social Media day and age and it HAS changed. But really, has it changed that much? There is still a guy sitting in a gym watching a player play and rendering an evaluation of him. The real problem is that that guy is now sitting in a gym at an AAU tourney his "company" is putting on, charging the players to participate and then charging the individual colleges for his evaluation. There is nothing keeping college coaches out of the AAU gyms except perhaps laziness...guess their thought is why should I waist my time going watch player X next weekend when I can just buy a ready made evaluation from the company? Coaches have found an easy button and these AAU-related companies have found a way to make a LOT of money!!

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Hate to say it, but coaches have become lazy in this technology driven age. They want to be spoon fed a short list of potential players that they should take a look at.

In many ways, the people who have been left the farthest behind by the social media revolution are coaches. Clearly coaches are not doing a lot of "old school" recruiting (going to games, visiting player at schools, etc) and most are not utilizing social media and the internet in an effective way. Sooooooo...In step these "third parties" that are in the gyms and at or even sponsoring AAU tourneys watching players and doing "evaluations" which they provide...for a fee...to selected programs. I read one of the on-line flyers for a NY2LASPORTS AAU tourney that mentioned that "coaches" could get a "player profile/evaluation package" for $175.

[Sportsnut]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Whatever happened to Shawn Dyer? Is he playing for money anyway?

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Hate to say it, but coaches have become lazy in this technology driven age. They want to be spoon fed a short list of potential players that they should take a look at.

In many ways, the people who have been left the farthest behind by the social media revolution are coaches. Clearly coaches are not doing a lot of "old school" recruiting (going to games, visiting player at schools, etc) and most are not utilizing social media and the internet in an effective way. Sooooooo...In step these "third parties" that are in the gyms and at or even sponsoring AAU tourneys watching players and doing "evaluations" which they provide...for a fee...to selected programs. I read one of the on-line flyers for a NY2LASPORTS AAU tourney that mentioned that "coaches" could get a "player profile/evaluation package" for $175.

I know with 100 percent certainty that Slippery Rock signed players sight unseen -- both ways -- for years under Kevin Reynolds. They never saw the players (or met them) in person. The players never visited campus. He made a living working connections and recruiting via the internet. Hence, The Island of Misfit Toys.

At this level (any level anymore) .. the high school recruit is a financial risk. It used to be there was the fear they'd leave if they got redshirted. Now, the fear is they leave if they start as a true freshman (Yahel Hill, etc.).

I don't like the one-and-done transfer. Every decade you'll get a Shawn Dyer. But, for the most part that path is no good. I tend to prefer the Anthony Glover types ... transfers coming down with 2-3 years eligibility. They've already 'played up' a year so that's hopefully out of their system, etc.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Yep. The days of coaches hitting the road and sitting in gyms is long gone. Here, I know Joe doesn't even leave campus to recruit. His assistants may make a trip or two, but once they identify who they want the players are brought in for a visit with him. I think he's a master at working connections.

Many coaches have told me they don't even watch high school tape. The competition is often too poor. All they want to see is summer stuff when players are playing against other top players and are surrounded by other strong players.

D2 is so different from one end to the other. At IUP, West Liberty, etc., each recruit is hand-picked. They are fully-funded. Those spots are hard to get. At the other end ... the Clarion's of the world ... they struggle to fill out a somewhat competitive roster. They have to build a team out of 2-3 scholarship equivalencies. Not easy to do. It's almost like low Class A baseball ... they may have a couple players but the rest are just roster-filler.

Hate to say it, but coaches have become lazy in this technology driven age. They want to be spoon fed a short list of potential players that they should take a look at.

In many ways, the people who have been left the farthest behind by the social media revolution are coaches. Clearly coaches are not doing a lot of "old school" recruiting (going to games, visiting player at schools, etc) and most are not utilizing social media and the internet in an effective way. Sooooooo...In step these "third parties" that are in the gyms and at or even sponsoring AAU tourneys watching players and doing "evaluations" which they provide...for a fee...to selected programs. I read one of the on-line flyers for a NY2LASPORTS AAU tourney that mentioned that "coaches" could get a "player profile/evaluation package" for $175.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Sure...But try to get recruited without one! Unless you are a big name blue chip prospect, you are not going to get looked at unless you have a highlight tape. And at the DII level were recruiting budgets are often very tight, they are often the deciding factor in who to go and see and who not to.

As for investigating this, the problem is until you get to the P5 level were the FBI would have an interest, this is not a sexy crime that is going to generate local PD/County Sheriff/state-wide Agency interest. In the big scheme of crime, the recruiting game is considered small potatoes...even though it is a multi million (billion?) dollar enterprise.

Yep. The days of coaches hitting the road and sitting in gyms is long gone. Here, I know Joe doesn't even leave campus to recruit. His assistants may make a trip or two, but once they identify who they want the players are brought in for a visit with him. I think he's a master at working connections.

Many coaches have told me they don't even watch high school tape. The competition is often too poor. All they want to see is summer stuff when players are playing against other top players and are surrounded by other strong players.

D2 is so different from one end to the other. At IUP, West Liberty, etc., each recruit is hand-picked. They are fully-funded. Those spots are hard to get. At the other end ... the Clarion's of the world ... they struggle to fill out a somewhat competitive roster. They have to build a team out of 2-3 scholarship equivalencies. Not easy to do. It's almost like low Class A baseball ... they may have a couple players but the rest are just roster-filler.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Imho because there are no lowlights. No one misses a three. No one takes plays off. Very little info on their open court defense. Everyone is all world. Without entire game it is fairly useless.

Also for d1 take photos of the athletes parking lot and look at the hi end new suvs. Determine who has the title- probably Uncle Buck. That would also be a starting point although after the fact.

Sure...But try to get recruited without one! Unless you are a big name blue chip prospect, you are not going to get looked at unless you have a highlight tape. And at the DII level were recruiting budgets are often very tight, they are often the deciding factor in who to go and see and who not to.

As for investigating this, the problem is until you get to the P5 level were the FBI would have an interest, this is not a sexy crime that is going to generate local PD/County Sheriff/state-wide Agency interest. In the big scheme of crime, the recruiting game is considered small potatoes...even though it is a multi million (billion?) dollar enterprise.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Not much of an offer list!

He seems to have a pretty good HS pedigree.

[Sportsnut]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Not much of an offer list!