PSAC WEST

[gman16506]

I'd guess within the next week.

I can give you a sneakpeak:


1. Gannon


Everybody else.

Even with Gannon losing three starters via portal and graduation, is it still this clear cut? Bazzoli recruits well but you never know with new faces.

[Ship69]

Even with Gannon losing three starters via portal and graduation, is it still this clear cut? Bazzoli recruits well but you never know with new faces.

Thing is, most of the other teams generally have to add some new faces as well, and most don't have the resources Gannon is devoting to BB.

[gman16506]

Thing is, most of the other teams generally have to add some new faces as well, and most don't have the resources Gannon is devoting to BB.

Just wondering if you have some links or data which would validate the resource claim about Gannon versus other PSAC schools? I have heard this often and have no idea if it is true or not, but would really be interested in some hard numbers. Frankly, I have heard this over the years and those "resources" didn't help one bit during the Kelvin Jefferson era or put the John Reilly teams over the top. Personally, I think the recent run has to do with the quality of the head coaches running the basketball programs in Bazzoli and Wright (not forgetting Fee).

Not trying to start some long-winded internet battle but would just like to know the funding difference between Gannon and some other schools like IUP, California, West Chester, etc. Is it in coaching salaries solely or in facilities or how do you measure "resources" in general? Certainly, no one in the PSAC comes close to IUP when you look at the recruiting advantage afforded their Division One level arena as an example. Or is it simply a matter of limited asset allocation as Gannon's football program certainly is the bottom of the league? Hence, is allocation of limited athletic budgets driving the recent basketball success for both the men's and women's programs?

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Just wondering if you have some links or data which would validate the resource claim about Gannon versus other PSAC schools? I have heard this often and have no idea if it is true or not, but would really be interested in some hard numbers. Frankly, I have heard this over the years and those "resources" didn't help one bit during the Kelvin Jefferson era or put the John Reilly teams over the top. Personally, I think the recent run has to do with the quality of the head coaches running the basketball programs in Bazzoli and Wright (not forgetting Fee).

Not trying to start some long-winded internet battle but would just like to know the funding difference between Gannon and some other schools like IUP, California, West Chester, etc. Is it in coaching salaries solely or in facilities or how do you measure "resources" in general? Certainly, no one in the PSAC comes close to IUP when you look at the recruiting advantage afforded their Division One like arena as an example.

Basketball "resources" separate the haves from the have nots.

In theory, you can only have (10) full scholarship equivalencies. You can give 10 free rides, 20 half rides, etc.

The catch is you need the money to give out the 10.

In the PSAC, the PASSHE schools have to raise their own scholarship money. The school doesn't provide any athletic scholarship money. They need big donors or a lot of carwashes.

So, IUP can be giving out 10 free rides where Clarion may have the total piggy bank of 3.5 equivalencies to spread over the whole roster.

So, the teams with money have a massive advantage over the teams without it.

When it's apples to apples, then it comes down to who recruits and coaches better.

I say 'in theory' about the cap of 10 because there are ways to get more -- academic money doesn't count toward the 10 (as one example).

In the current case, Bazolli has just kicked everybody's a$$ in all categories.

[Ship69]

Basketball "resources" separate the haves from the have nots.

In theory, you can only have (10) full scholarship equivalencies. You can give 10 free rides, 20 half rides, etc.

The catch is you need the money to give out the 10.

In the PSAC, the PASSHE schools have to raise their own scholarship money. The school doesn't provide any athletic scholarship money. They need big donors or a lot of carwashes.

So, IUP can be giving out 10 free rides where Clarion may have the total piggy bank of 3.5 equivalencies to spread over the whole roster.

So, the teams with money have a massive advantage over the teams without it.

When it's apples to apples, then it comes down to who recruits and coaches better.

I say 'in theory' about the cap of 10 because there are ways to get more -- academic money doesn't count toward the 10 (as one example).

In the current case, Bazolli has just kicked everybody's a$$ in all categories.

And private schools are funded directly by tuition and donations without state aid, which means most of them developed effective fundraising operations over the years and are usually better endowed than public institutions. State schools used to have a much greater share of their budgets coming from state funds, so fundraising didn't tend to be as great a concern, plus there was a lot of sentiment that they didn't need big donations since they got state funding anyway. That has changed over the years at the PASSHE school at state funding has declined from 70-some percent of the budget to 25 percent or less over the years. State schools have belatedly gotten onto the fundraising bandwagon, but they're behind the eight-ball in many cases. Gannon is smaller than Shippensburg, but has about twice as large an endowment. Private schools also start with a higher sticker price, but can usually play around with tuition rates to a greater extent than the publics. They also tend to be smaller and more intimate places, often resulting in greater institutional loyalty. That can be true even in larger instances. Northwestern is the smallest school in the Big Ten, but is second only to Michigan in endowment. While Penn State scrambles to dig up funding for a $700 million stadium renovation, Northwestern's new stadium was funded entirely by private donation.

If the figures I see for Gannon's annual institutional financial aid (about $47 million) are correct, I'd say that's probably about 2-3 times what's going out at Shippensburg. Some of the larger state schools probably stack up more favorably.

[Fightingscot82]

And private schools are funded directly by tuition and donations without state aid, which means most of them developed effective fundraising operations over the years and are usually better endowed than public institutions. State schools used to have a much greater share of their budgets coming from state funds, so fundraising didn't tend to be as great a concern, plus there was a lot of sentiment that they didn't need big donations since they got state funding anyway. That has changed over the years at the PASSHE school at state funding has declined from 70-some percent of the budget to 25 percent or less over the years. State schools have belatedly gotten onto the fundraising bandwagon, but they're behind the eight-ball in many cases. Gannon is smaller than Shippensburg, but has about twice as large an endowment. Private schools also start with a higher sticker price, but can usually play around with tuition rates to a greater extent than the publics. They also tend to be smaller and more intimate places, often resulting in greater institutional loyalty. That can be true even in larger instances. Northwestern is the smallest school in the Big Ten, but is second only to Michigan in endowment. While Penn State scrambles to dig up funding for a $700 million stadium renovation, Northwestern's new stadium was funded entirely by private donation.

If the figures I see for Gannon's annual institutional financial aid (about $47 million) are correct, I'd say that's probably about 2-3 times what's going out at Shippensburg. Some of the larger state schools probably stack up more favorably.

Gannon's not fundraising its scholarships. They're discounting them. Private school tuition models are like a car dealership - knocking some off for one person is made up by one sucker paying full sticker price. So Gannon made a strategic decision to prioritize men's basketball and found wiggle room in their budget to plan for discounts up to whatever they are awarding.

[gman16506]

And private schools are funded directly by tuition and donations without state aid, which means most of them developed effective fundraising operations over the years and are usually better endowed than public institutions. State schools used to have a much greater share of their budgets coming from state funds, so fundraising didn't tend to be as great a concern, plus there was a lot of sentiment that they didn't need big donations since they got state funding anyway. That has changed over the years at the PASSHE school at state funding has declined from 70-some percent of the budget to 25 percent or less over the years. State schools have belatedly gotten onto the fundraising bandwagon, but they're behind the eight-ball in many cases. Gannon is smaller than Shippensburg, but has about twice as large an endowment. Private schools also start with a higher sticker price, but can usually play around with tuition rates to a greater extent than the publics. They also tend to be smaller and more intimate places, often resulting in greater institutional loyalty. That can be true even in larger instances. Northwestern is the smallest school in the Big Ten, but is second only to Michigan in endowment. While Penn State scrambles to dig up funding for a $700 million stadium renovation, Northwestern's new stadium was funded entirely by private donation.

If the figures I see for Gannon's annual institutional financial aid (about $47 million) are correct, I'd say that's probably about 2-3 times what's going out at Shippensburg. Some of the larger state schools probably stack up more favorably.

Many thanks for the interesting observations as they make perfect sense. Indeed, many years ago I served as Chairman of the Gannon University Annual Fund Drive and we called on all the major businesses as well as spheres of influence around the community. One of the advantages of Gannon's location is the "urban" environment of Erie which presents donation opportunities maybe not available to most of the other PSAC universities. Another factor is a cultural element of the Erie area which I did not understand when I first enrolled at Gannon. And that is the strong connection between Erie Cathedral Prep and Gannon although it might have faded a bit over the years. And that rite of passage often put Gannon in a great position with business and community leaders for at least an open door to listen to the pitch.

And thanks for the reminder about tuition discounting as I had forgotten about that practice in attracting students.

[gman16506]

Gannon's not fundraising its scholarships. They're discounting them. Private school tuition models are like a car dealership - knocking some off for one person is made up by one sucker paying full sticker price. So Gannon made a strategic decision to prioritize men's basketball and found wiggle room in their budget to plan for discounts up to whatever they are awarding.

As I mentioned in another post, I had completely forgotten about the discounting of tuition and appreciate the response.

[Fightingscot82]

As I mentioned in another post, I had completely forgotten about the discounting of tuition and appreciate the response.

This is why you'll see private schools offering scholarships with branded names and even amounts ($ or %) with automatic qualifiers and no end in sight. Gannon doesn't publish their benchmarks online but here is their structure: https://www.gannon.edu/tuition-and-f...ps-and-awards/

[Ship69]

This is why you'll see private schools offering scholarships with branded names and even amounts ($ or %) with automatic qualifiers and no end in sight. Gannon doesn't publish their benchmarks online but here is their structure: https://www.gannon.edu/tuition-and-f...ps-and-awards/

Some of the private schools are pretty clever about the way they do things. While there are some restrictions on the state schools, we could pick up a few lessons from them. What is really sad is the relatively small percentage of alums who donate anything back to their schools. I'm betting it's probably well under 10 percent for all the PSAC schools. It's also disheartening that some of the PSAC graduates in our legislature have done little to benefit their alma maters.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Some of the private schools are pretty clever about the way they do things. While there are some restrictions on the state schools, we could pick up a few lessons from them. What is really sad is the relatively small percentage of alums who donate anything back to their schools. I'm betting it's probably well under 10 percent for all the PSAC schools. It's also disheartening that some of the PSAC graduates in our legislature have done little to benefit their alma maters.

If you don't ask, you rarely get.

I used to get called on a dang near spam-call level. I haven't been called for money in probably 5-6 years.

I still donate because I want to help our programs, but those who take the initiative without being asked are pretty rare birds.

[Ship69]

If you don't ask, you rarely get.

I used to get called on a dang near spam-call level. I haven't been called for money in probably 5-6 years.

I still donate because I want to help our programs, but those who take the initiative without being asked are pretty rare birds.

That is a problem, and many of our PASSHE schools were slow on the uptake over the years. Part of the problem is that they probably have lost track of where a good many of the alumni live, so they can't ask they if they have no idea where they are. One thing I noticed over the years is that Northwestern made much more of an attempt to keep track of me for many years than Ship did. There's a reason NU has an endowment of more than $10 billion. Ship has gotten better in recent years, and if they have your contact information you will receive fundraising calls from them. They usually have students do it in the fall.

[Fightingscot82]

Some of the private schools are pretty clever about the way they do things. While there are some restrictions on the state schools, we could pick up a few lessons from them. What is really sad is the relatively small percentage of alums who donate anything back to their schools. I'm betting it's probably well under 10 percent for all the PSAC schools. It's also disheartening that some of the PSAC graduates in our legislature have done little to benefit their alma maters.

There's no sense of obligation. We're several generations removed from any sort of collective sacrifice for the common good. We've now shifted from "I don't want someone to have it as tough as I had it" to now "Well I didn't get a scholarship when I attended and I'm still paying off my loans, why should I help somebody else?" My wife and I left a church that had been taken over by Millennials and Gen Z. The collections from members stopped focusing on supporting the less fortunate in the community and more on proliferating the church as a business. When we explained why we left, they basically shrugged. Its an example of how things have changed. If you see articles posted online about loan forgiveness or special tuition programs, there will undoubtedly be comments about how that's not fair because those weren't options for that person.

The sales pitch isn't great either. More often the ask is for a generic fund that the average donor lacks an understanding of how its used. I know that if I give Edinboro football $1,000 its spent on the football program. Either scholarships or equipment or travel costs or even the end of the year banquet, its still spent on football. If I give to the Edinboro Athletics General Fund, how is that spent? Small upgrades to the facilities? A pizza party for staff? I just don't know.

I'm fortunate that I work for the state and I can have a monthly donation taken out of my paycheck pre-tax and sent to the Edinboro University Foundation. I then contact the executive director and inform him that I want my donation to directly support Edinboro football. But before I had set up a monthly charge to my credit card directly to Edinboro supporting football. But then again, I've done the work and I understand how the money is used.

[Fightingscot82]

That is a problem, and many of our PASSHE schools were slow on the uptake over the years. Part of the problem is that they probably have lost track of where a good many of the alumni live, so they can't ask they if they have no idea where they are. One thing I noticed over the years is that Northwestern made much more of an attempt to keep track of me for many years than Ship did. There's a reason NU has an endowment of more than $10 billion. Ship has gotten better in recent years, and if they have your contact information you will receive fundraising calls from them. They usually have students do it in the fall.

Historically, the cost was so low that there was never really a need to ask for money. We also had an alumni base that was almost exclusively working in modest income fields like education and social services. But fundraising standards are based on private schools that historically produced higher earning alumni in higher earning careers where the alumni also had a deep, personal often faith-based connection to that school. Most PASSHE schools didn't do any sort of alumni annual fund until the 1980s. Edinboro missed the boat - Sun Oil (SUNOCO) and the Pew family are Edinboro people. Unfortunately a lot of their fortune went into Grove City College.

But now with staffing struggling, they're more often focused on the big gifts at $10-25k instead of stringing together a culture of people giving regularly that adds up to the same amount. Everyone giving $100 (all at once or $10/mo) adds up to a lot more than the handful of alumni who give at the $10k/year or one-off gift level.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Historically, the cost was so low that there was never really a need to ask for money. We also had an alumni base that was almost exclusively working in modest income fields like education and social services. But fundraising standards are based on private schools that historically produced higher earning alumni in higher earning careers where the alumni also had a deep, personal often faith-based connection to that school. Most PASSHE schools didn't do any sort of alumni annual fund until the 1980s. Edinboro missed the boat - Sun Oil (SUNOCO) and the Pew family are Edinboro people. Unfortunately a lot of their fortune went into Grove City College.

But now with staffing struggling, they're more often focused on the big gifts at $10-25k instead of stringing together a culture of people giving regularly that adds up to the same amount. Everyone giving $100 (all at once or $10/mo) adds up to a lot more than the handful of alumni who give at the $10k/year or one-off gift level.

Basketball is obviously much easier to fund. You could build the whole roster with a big donor (or a handful of them).

I've always said if you're going to be a coach at a state school in our league, you best be a good salesman. If you don't raise the coin, you aren't likely to win much.