PSAC WEST

[Ship69]

I do like Shepherd to be a major thorn in the East. I think they are getting overlooked a bit.

I'd be nervous putting coin on West Chester. I've seen them look incredible one night and pretty blah the next. But, they do have a nice roster this year.

I'd pick ESU as the favorite. They got derailed last year with injuries.

If Ship gets some positive output underneath, I think Fite could be dangerous. Those guards are going to cause a lot of problems.

Both divisions should be pretty entertaining.

West Chester always seems to be the enigma of the East. Damien always gets some talent in there and they can look impressive, especially at home. Yet sub-.500 Ship teams have beaten them the past two seasons at Ship. Ship will definitely need their trio of sophomore and junior forwards from last year to step up their games. Haven't seen the community college transfer play yet, so I don't know what they're getting there. Frank, Dickson, and Smith are obviously a nice returning trio. Sounds like they got two good freshmen, although you can't count on freshmen for much. Wilson always brings in a bunch of physical studs at ESU. How well they mesh in his pattern of heavy substitution is usually the key.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Always find your looks into the West as a long-time observer to be interesting. I would think Gannon and IUP are definitely the top two with all the losses at Cal. The East should be a multiple-team battle. Apparently the voters feel West Chester and ESU have made the best additions. Millersville has a ton of new faces. The West has been winning for a while. I think it's primarily that the top two-three teams in the West seem to have been a cut above recently.

I do like Shepherd to be a major thorn in the East. I think they are getting overlooked a bit.

I'd be nervous putting coin on West Chester. I've seen them look incredible one night and pretty blah the next. But, they do have a nice roster this year.

I'd pick ESU as the favorite. They got derailed last year with injuries.

If Ship gets some positive output underneath, I think Fite could be dangerous. Those guards are going to cause a lot of problems.

Both divisions should be pretty entertaining.

[Ship69]

Well, if I've learned one thing in all these decades of watching PSAC West Men's Basketball ... it's that the preseason poll is rarely correct. In particular, all heck tends to break loose beyond the top couple.


The West is a gauntlet. The National Champion a year ago didn't win the conference, and the third place team (IUP) from the West made the Sweet 16. The West is also on quite a run of conference titles. It's been some time since the East has won it.


That said, ... some comments:


Official release:

Western Division (Number of first-place votes)
1. Gannon (8)
2. IUP
3. California (1)
4. Slippery Rock
5. Seton Hill
6. Pitt-Johnstown
7. Edinboro
8. Clarion
9. Lock Haven


Thoughts (and my rearrangement):

1. Gannon - The Knights stay there until somebody removes them. Cal's in a major rebuild year and Joe's lost 10 straight to them. GU lost some serious star power but also returns a lot of players.

2. IUP - Different roster make-up for Joe. This is a much bigger and more physical team (built very similar to his teams 15 years ago). It's much deeper (although he'll weed it down to 6.5 by January). The Hawks should be a pretty tough out.

3. California - Danny lost all (5) starters, and his best returning player will still be playing football for the Vulcans for another month (or more). But, Danny reloads quickly. It just may take some time this season. Make no mistake, Cal lost some serious dudes to the Portal.

Here's where things get whacky (and become a guessing game):

4. Pitt-Johnston - The Teflon Don returns to wreck havoc under the basket. There's a new HC in Johnstown (although he's been there for a very long time). The Mountain Cats return a lot.

5. Slippery Rock - They'll be big and physical (as usual). Some nights they'll play great. Some nights they won't. SRU typically starts fast but fades. I don't see this as a team competing for the West title, but they'll get some big wins here and there.

6. Edinboro - Nice combo of guards and post players. As usual, they'll get a couple surprise wins inside McComb but take some surprise losses, too.

7. Lock Haven - The Bald Eagles are typically a team that can bite you if you aren't ready.

8. Clarion - This is essentially a whole new roster.

9. Seton Hill - The Griffins were gutted after last season. They have a good coach and will improve, but it's going to take time. Very young.

Always find your looks into the West as a long-time observer to be interesting. I would think Gannon and IUP are definitely the top two with all the losses at Cal. The East should be a multiple-team battle. Apparently the voters feel West Chester and ESU have made the best additions. Millersville has a ton of new faces. The West has been winning for a while. I think it's primarily that the top two-three teams in the West seem to have been a cut above recently.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Well, if I've learned one thing in all these decades of watching PSAC West Men's Basketball ... it's that the preseason poll is rarely correct. In particular, all heck tends to break loose beyond the top couple.


The West is a gauntlet. The National Champion a year ago didn't win the conference, and the third place team (IUP) from the West made the Sweet 16. The West is also on quite a run of conference titles. It's been some time since the East has won it.


That said, ... some comments:


Official release:

Western Division (Number of first-place votes)
1. Gannon (8)
2. IUP
3. California (1)
4. Slippery Rock
5. Seton Hill
6. Pitt-Johnstown
7. Edinboro
8. Clarion
9. Lock Haven


Thoughts (and my rearrangement):

1. Gannon - The Knights stay there until somebody removes them. Cal's in a major rebuild year and Joe's lost 10 straight to them. GU lost some serious star power but also returns a lot of players.

2. IUP - Different roster make-up for Joe. This is a much bigger and more physical team (built very similar to his teams 15 years ago). It's much deeper (although he'll weed it down to 6.5 by January). The Hawks should be a pretty tough out.

3. California - Danny lost all (5) starters, and his best returning player will still be playing football for the Vulcans for another month (or more). But, Danny reloads quickly. It just may take some time this season. Make no mistake, Cal lost some serious dudes to the Portal.

Here's where things get whacky (and become a guessing game):

4. Pitt-Johnston - The Teflon Don returns to wreck havoc under the basket. There's a new HC in Johnstown (although he's been there for a very long time). The Mountain Cats return a lot.

5. Slippery Rock - They'll be big and physical (as usual). Some nights they'll play great. Some nights they won't. SRU typically starts fast but fades. I don't see this as a team competing for the West title, but they'll get some big wins here and there.

6. Edinboro - Nice combo of guards and post players. As usual, they'll get a couple surprise wins inside McComb but take some surprise losses, too.

7. Lock Haven - The Bald Eagles are typically a team that can bite you if you aren't ready.

8. Clarion - This is essentially a whole new roster.

9. Seton Hill - The Griffins were gutted after last season. They have a good coach and will improve, but it's going to take time. Very young.

[Fightingscot82]

Basketball is obviously much easier to fund. You could build the whole roster with a big donor (or a handful of them).

I've always said if you're going to be a coach at a state school in our league, you best be a good salesman. If you don't raise the coin, you aren't likely to win much.

I'd also argue you can be a lot more competitive with less money than in football, although maybe the PSAC isn't the best example of that. Recruiting in basketball is tough because you're also recruiting the family and the AAU coach or whomever is advising the player. Men's basketball is also far more susceptible to idiot advice being whispered into somebody's ear.

[Ship69]

Basketball is obviously much easier to fund. You could build the whole roster with a big donor (or a handful of them).

I've always said if you're going to be a coach at a state school in our league, you best be a good salesman. If you don't raise the coin, you aren't likely to win much.

Basketball can be easier to build, but hard to maintain. Fite has done a great job of keeping most of our key players at Ship (I didn't really expect to have four years of Frank), but with the new order of things I don't know how long that will last. Most of us agree we wouldn't have gotten four years out of Dustin Sleva these days, and you have to wonder about players such as Jake Biss, Carlos Carter, etc. There are a lot of new things under the sun.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Historically, the cost was so low that there was never really a need to ask for money. We also had an alumni base that was almost exclusively working in modest income fields like education and social services. But fundraising standards are based on private schools that historically produced higher earning alumni in higher earning careers where the alumni also had a deep, personal often faith-based connection to that school. Most PASSHE schools didn't do any sort of alumni annual fund until the 1980s. Edinboro missed the boat - Sun Oil (SUNOCO) and the Pew family are Edinboro people. Unfortunately a lot of their fortune went into Grove City College.

But now with staffing struggling, they're more often focused on the big gifts at $10-25k instead of stringing together a culture of people giving regularly that adds up to the same amount. Everyone giving $100 (all at once or $10/mo) adds up to a lot more than the handful of alumni who give at the $10k/year or one-off gift level.

Basketball is obviously much easier to fund. You could build the whole roster with a big donor (or a handful of them).

I've always said if you're going to be a coach at a state school in our league, you best be a good salesman. If you don't raise the coin, you aren't likely to win much.

[Fightingscot82]

That is a problem, and many of our PASSHE schools were slow on the uptake over the years. Part of the problem is that they probably have lost track of where a good many of the alumni live, so they can't ask they if they have no idea where they are. One thing I noticed over the years is that Northwestern made much more of an attempt to keep track of me for many years than Ship did. There's a reason NU has an endowment of more than $10 billion. Ship has gotten better in recent years, and if they have your contact information you will receive fundraising calls from them. They usually have students do it in the fall.

Historically, the cost was so low that there was never really a need to ask for money. We also had an alumni base that was almost exclusively working in modest income fields like education and social services. But fundraising standards are based on private schools that historically produced higher earning alumni in higher earning careers where the alumni also had a deep, personal often faith-based connection to that school. Most PASSHE schools didn't do any sort of alumni annual fund until the 1980s. Edinboro missed the boat - Sun Oil (SUNOCO) and the Pew family are Edinboro people. Unfortunately a lot of their fortune went into Grove City College.

But now with staffing struggling, they're more often focused on the big gifts at $10-25k instead of stringing together a culture of people giving regularly that adds up to the same amount. Everyone giving $100 (all at once or $10/mo) adds up to a lot more than the handful of alumni who give at the $10k/year or one-off gift level.

[Fightingscot82]

Some of the private schools are pretty clever about the way they do things. While there are some restrictions on the state schools, we could pick up a few lessons from them. What is really sad is the relatively small percentage of alums who donate anything back to their schools. I'm betting it's probably well under 10 percent for all the PSAC schools. It's also disheartening that some of the PSAC graduates in our legislature have done little to benefit their alma maters.

There's no sense of obligation. We're several generations removed from any sort of collective sacrifice for the common good. We've now shifted from "I don't want someone to have it as tough as I had it" to now "Well I didn't get a scholarship when I attended and I'm still paying off my loans, why should I help somebody else?" My wife and I left a church that had been taken over by Millennials and Gen Z. The collections from members stopped focusing on supporting the less fortunate in the community and more on proliferating the church as a business. When we explained why we left, they basically shrugged. Its an example of how things have changed. If you see articles posted online about loan forgiveness or special tuition programs, there will undoubtedly be comments about how that's not fair because those weren't options for that person.

The sales pitch isn't great either. More often the ask is for a generic fund that the average donor lacks an understanding of how its used. I know that if I give Edinboro football $1,000 its spent on the football program. Either scholarships or equipment or travel costs or even the end of the year banquet, its still spent on football. If I give to the Edinboro Athletics General Fund, how is that spent? Small upgrades to the facilities? A pizza party for staff? I just don't know.

I'm fortunate that I work for the state and I can have a monthly donation taken out of my paycheck pre-tax and sent to the Edinboro University Foundation. I then contact the executive director and inform him that I want my donation to directly support Edinboro football. But before I had set up a monthly charge to my credit card directly to Edinboro supporting football. But then again, I've done the work and I understand how the money is used.

[Ship69]

If you don't ask, you rarely get.

I used to get called on a dang near spam-call level. I haven't been called for money in probably 5-6 years.

I still donate because I want to help our programs, but those who take the initiative without being asked are pretty rare birds.

That is a problem, and many of our PASSHE schools were slow on the uptake over the years. Part of the problem is that they probably have lost track of where a good many of the alumni live, so they can't ask they if they have no idea where they are. One thing I noticed over the years is that Northwestern made much more of an attempt to keep track of me for many years than Ship did. There's a reason NU has an endowment of more than $10 billion. Ship has gotten better in recent years, and if they have your contact information you will receive fundraising calls from them. They usually have students do it in the fall.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Some of the private schools are pretty clever about the way they do things. While there are some restrictions on the state schools, we could pick up a few lessons from them. What is really sad is the relatively small percentage of alums who donate anything back to their schools. I'm betting it's probably well under 10 percent for all the PSAC schools. It's also disheartening that some of the PSAC graduates in our legislature have done little to benefit their alma maters.

If you don't ask, you rarely get.

I used to get called on a dang near spam-call level. I haven't been called for money in probably 5-6 years.

I still donate because I want to help our programs, but those who take the initiative without being asked are pretty rare birds.

[Ship69]

This is why you'll see private schools offering scholarships with branded names and even amounts ($ or %) with automatic qualifiers and no end in sight. Gannon doesn't publish their benchmarks online but here is their structure: https://www.gannon.edu/tuition-and-f...ps-and-awards/

Some of the private schools are pretty clever about the way they do things. While there are some restrictions on the state schools, we could pick up a few lessons from them. What is really sad is the relatively small percentage of alums who donate anything back to their schools. I'm betting it's probably well under 10 percent for all the PSAC schools. It's also disheartening that some of the PSAC graduates in our legislature have done little to benefit their alma maters.

[Fightingscot82]

As I mentioned in another post, I had completely forgotten about the discounting of tuition and appreciate the response.

This is why you'll see private schools offering scholarships with branded names and even amounts ($ or %) with automatic qualifiers and no end in sight. Gannon doesn't publish their benchmarks online but here is their structure: https://www.gannon.edu/tuition-and-f...ps-and-awards/

[gman16506]

Gannon's not fundraising its scholarships. They're discounting them. Private school tuition models are like a car dealership - knocking some off for one person is made up by one sucker paying full sticker price. So Gannon made a strategic decision to prioritize men's basketball and found wiggle room in their budget to plan for discounts up to whatever they are awarding.

As I mentioned in another post, I had completely forgotten about the discounting of tuition and appreciate the response.

[gman16506]

And private schools are funded directly by tuition and donations without state aid, which means most of them developed effective fundraising operations over the years and are usually better endowed than public institutions. State schools used to have a much greater share of their budgets coming from state funds, so fundraising didn't tend to be as great a concern, plus there was a lot of sentiment that they didn't need big donations since they got state funding anyway. That has changed over the years at the PASSHE school at state funding has declined from 70-some percent of the budget to 25 percent or less over the years. State schools have belatedly gotten onto the fundraising bandwagon, but they're behind the eight-ball in many cases. Gannon is smaller than Shippensburg, but has about twice as large an endowment. Private schools also start with a higher sticker price, but can usually play around with tuition rates to a greater extent than the publics. They also tend to be smaller and more intimate places, often resulting in greater institutional loyalty. That can be true even in larger instances. Northwestern is the smallest school in the Big Ten, but is second only to Michigan in endowment. While Penn State scrambles to dig up funding for a $700 million stadium renovation, Northwestern's new stadium was funded entirely by private donation.

If the figures I see for Gannon's annual institutional financial aid (about $47 million) are correct, I'd say that's probably about 2-3 times what's going out at Shippensburg. Some of the larger state schools probably stack up more favorably.

Many thanks for the interesting observations as they make perfect sense. Indeed, many years ago I served as Chairman of the Gannon University Annual Fund Drive and we called on all the major businesses as well as spheres of influence around the community. One of the advantages of Gannon's location is the "urban" environment of Erie which presents donation opportunities maybe not available to most of the other PSAC universities. Another factor is a cultural element of the Erie area which I did not understand when I first enrolled at Gannon. And that is the strong connection between Erie Cathedral Prep and Gannon although it might have faded a bit over the years. And that rite of passage often put Gannon in a great position with business and community leaders for at least an open door to listen to the pitch.

And thanks for the reminder about tuition discounting as I had forgotten about that practice in attracting students.