PSAC WEST

[bballfan03]

I think about the only sensible thing they could do at this level is to merge regions. Go from 8 to 4, but do it geographically. You can then, in theory, open things up where you are seeding 1-16 within a region rather than 1-8 in a smaller pool. This could still allow fans to reasonably travel to the games if they chose to do so and it would open up the NCAA tournament some to avoid teams playing each other a 3rd and 4th time in the Round of 64 and Round of 32.

I would love to see them do an open seeded tournament 1-64. But that just will never happen at this level for a variety of reasons.

Regional strength around the country is cyclical. They all have ebbs and flows. Depth of good teams. Years where they are weaker. Etc. Despite none of the top teams winning a National Championship, I tend to generally think that the Atlantic is one of the tougher, deeper regions. Over the stretch of the last 5-7 years, IUP, WL, and Mercyhurst have all been "elite" during stretches. Some years they have been elite all in the same season. You generally have formidable challengers (East Stroudsburg, Fairmont State, etc.) in each of the PSAC and MEC as well who are normally really good and have the material to make a run. The CIAA champion is never a quiet "out" in the tournament either. And not to mention that they have put some really good teams into the dance. All that said, there is such diversity in styles that the top teams play in the Atlantic Region as well. At their best, IUP, Mercyhurst, and West Liberty all play different styles of basketball.

Given the setup, the challenge of the D2 Regional format generally results in a lot of good, sometimes great, teams getting knocked out of the tournament very early. The year IUP lost to Mercyhurst in the second round of the tournament, the Atlantic Regional's top 4 seeds were all ranked in the top 10. The 5 seed was in the top 15. Those teams shouldn't be playing in the 1st and 2nd round. But that's the nature of the beast I suppose.

I tell friends of mine who don't understand the D2 landscape that it's probably more challenging as a top seed to reach the Elite 8 in D2 than it is to reach the Final 4 in D1. The nature of playing rivals, teams you are familiar with regionally (and who are also familiar with you), and teams in your conference generally for a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th time in the season (often in a road environment) makes it a very, very tall order. People see a 29-2 record and assume they'll just win the Region. Losing in the 2nd round may not necessarily be an "upset."

I hate the format in that respect, but I guess it is what is.

I agree with your format... less regions, larger regions.. at least then the chances of playing a team 4x is diminished a little.

And for the reasons you listed as to why Atlantic Region is one of the stronger regions (which I agree) is why I hate this format. West Liberty, IUP, Hurst (the years they were up there).. should have all had a chance to be get to the Elite 8 without having to kick the crap out of one another to do so.

[IUP24]

I think that's as expected. With the exception of IUP's resurgence, attendance has been dropping as the older locals die off, local populations decline, and the students either aren't enrolling or would rather stream something for the 80th time. Unfortunately I don't see anything changing.

I attended a high school game for the first time in 25 years last night. My daughter wanted to go because she knows some of the kids on the team. At Edinboro, we got to know the players. Edinboro's star player at the time, Kenny Tate, was a cool guy who could dunk from the foul line with an afro. It was quite the visual. But we wanted to support him. When the athletes live with each other and don't engage with the rest of campus, it makes it easier to care less. The locals who support our teams are the same who still get a physical newspaper, watch the local news on TV, and probably attend the local high school's games.

I feel that. I always felt like while I was on campus, Joe Lombardi did a really good job at getting good people who assimilated very well with the student body. You would see them in line at the dining halls, walking to class, in the library, etc. And people generally knew who the basketball players were. But they were always good guys and easy to root for.

[Fightingscot82]

Re: PSAC WEST

Small sample size ... but not a great start for average home attendance

IUP - 823 (4 home games - way down from past years ... this weekend, in particular, drew horribly)

Gannon - 670 (2 home games)

Mercyhurst - 348 (2 home games)

California - 338 (3 home games)

Edinboro - 335 (3 home games)

Slippery Rock - 326 (2 home games)

UPJ - 325 (2 home games)

Seton Hill - 325 (3 home games)

Clarion - 226 (3 home games)

I think that's as expected. With the exception of IUP's resurgence, attendance has been dropping as the older locals die off, local populations decline, and the students either aren't enrolling or would rather stream something for the 80th time. Unfortunately I don't see anything changing.

I attended a high school game for the first time in 25 years last night. My daughter wanted to go because she knows some of the kids on the team. At Edinboro, we got to know the players. Edinboro's star player at the time, Kenny Tate, was a cool guy who could dunk from the foul line with an afro. It was quite the visual. But we wanted to support him. When the athletes live with each other and don't engage with the rest of campus, it makes it easier to care less. The locals who support our teams are the same who still get a physical newspaper, watch the local news on TV, and probably attend the local high school's games.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I think about the only sensible thing they could do at this level is to merge regions. Go from 8 to 4, but do it geographically. You can then, in theory, open things up where you are seeding 1-16 within a region rather than 1-8 in a smaller pool. This could still allow fans to reasonably travel to the games if they chose to do so and it would open up the NCAA tournament some to avoid teams playing each other a 3rd and 4th time in the Round of 64 and Round of 32.

I would love to see them do an open seeded tournament 1-64. But that just will never happen at this level for a variety of reasons.

Regional strength around the country is cyclical. They all have ebbs and flows. Depth of good teams. Years where they are weaker. Etc. Despite none of the top teams winning a National Championship, I tend to generally think that the Atlantic is one of the tougher, deeper regions. Over the stretch of the last 5-7 years, IUP, WL, and Mercyhurst have all been "elite" during stretches. Some years they have been elite all in the same season. You generally have formidable challengers (East Stroudsburg, Fairmont State, etc.) in each of the PSAC and MEC as well who are normally really good and have the material to make a run. The CIAA champion is never a quiet "out" in the tournament either. And not to mention that they have put some really good teams into the dance. All that said, there is such diversity in styles that the top teams play in the Atlantic Region as well. At their best, IUP, Mercyhurst, and West Liberty all play different styles of basketball.

Given the setup, the challenge of the D2 Regional format generally results in a lot of good, sometimes great, teams getting knocked out of the tournament very early. The year IUP lost to Mercyhurst in the second round of the tournament, the Atlantic Regional's top 4 seeds were all ranked in the top 10. The 5 seed was in the top 15. Those teams shouldn't be playing in the 1st and 2nd round. But that's the nature of the beast I suppose.

I tell friends of mine who don't understand the D2 landscape that it's probably more challenging as a top seed to reach the Elite 8 in D2 than it is to reach the Final 4 in D1. The nature of playing rivals, teams you are familiar with regionally (and who are also familiar with you), and teams in your conference generally for a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th time in the season (often in a road environment) makes it a very, very tall order. People see a 29-2 record and assume they'll just win the Region. Losing in the 2nd round may not necessarily be an "upset."

I hate the format in that respect, but I guess it is what is.

Crazy to think the year Mercyhurst went to the E8 and nearly beat NWMS that they split four games with IUP.

IUP won up there. Mercy won in the KCAC on a walk-off (that IUP totally butchered). IUP blew them out in the PSAC title game. Mercyhurst beat them up a week later in the tournament.

Those two would have split a 20-game series evenly that season. Crazy games.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

If you took all the favorites Wednesday night, you lost money (4 to 4 means you still pay the juice). The season is in the stretch run. Happy gambling, you degenerates.


Clarion at Seton Hill - Golden Eagles' star power forward Jayson Harris finally returned, and, naturally, Clarion snapped its long losing streak by hammering Pitt-Johnstown. Before they pop the champagne in Tippin, one has to consider that was UPJ's 10th straight loss and the Mountain Cats are now playing just 6-7 guys. This trip to Greensburg will likely make or break Clarion's season. The Golden Eagles are two games behind the Griffins for the final spot in the PSAC Tournament. If Clarion loses tomorrow, it could be lights out. Seton Hill is fresh off a near upset of California. The Griffins played incredibly on offense, scoring 93 points and nearly gave Vulcans' coach Danny Sancomb a heart attack. Seton Hill's usually-tough defense, however, was shredded. The Vulcans did whatever they wanted and put up 100 points in the McKenna Center. This is a tremendous matchup. Both teams, when healthy, are much better than people think. The Griffins won the first meeting by 7 points. Clarion's main weakness is it can't play a full 40 minutes. For 30 minutes, the Golden Eagles can hang with any team in the league. It's those extra 10 minutes that have ruined their season. Gambler beware. Seton Hill -2.5

Edinboro at Pitt-Johnstown - All heck has broken loose in Johnstown. The Mountain Cats have dropped a whopping 10 straight games. A star player bailed. Much has changed since this program made the NCAA Tournament a year ago. UPJ had at least been playing pretty competitively before Wednesday's blowout loss at Clarion. This funk likely will end after this season. UPJ is incredibly young -- and Bob Rukavina is trying his best to play less players than Joe Lombardi. Edinboro, on the other hand, is making strides this season. While the wins aren't there, the Fighting Scots are proving to be a tough out. The Dirty J has been a place where winning streaks have went to die for years, but this UPJ team doesn't have the magic of the past. They usually find a way to keep games close in Johnstown. Tomorrow could be similar. Scots -6.5

Slippery Rock at California - A rematch of perhaps the most shocking upset of the season thus far will take place in Angelo's Dome. The Vulcans will look to avenge the beating they received in Morrow Fieldhouse. California bounced back from its loss in Erie by barely escaping Greensburg. The Vulcans' offense was superb. Its defense was not good. The Rock is a strange bird. It can look great one night and very average the next. One thing to keep in mind is Ian Grady has been a thorn to Danny Sancomb the past couple years. He has a formula that works against the Vulcans. Cal has been a bit shaky the past two weeks -- and SRU has had a week to prepare. Can the Rock get a sweep? Doubtful ... but possible. Vulcans -6.5

Gannon at IUP - This one is real simple. IUP can't break the press. IUP has trouble inbounding the ball against the press. IUP has no depth. The depth IUP does have wears warm-up jackets all game. Damir Brooks could be one of the better forwards in the league but Joe won't play him. IUP has just three players who can score points. The end. Gannon -21.5

West Chester at East Stroudsburg - Damien Blair could throw a big wrench in to the East race with an upset tomorrow. His team is capable. The Rams, however, are a wild card. Which version will show up? The Warriors are 19-2, home and fresh off a bye. Logic says ESU wins. Logic isn't always right. This should be a good one. Warriors -6.5

Kutztown at Shippensburg - The Golden Bears are in the midst of a brutal 3-19 season. However, one of those wins came against Shippensburg. The Raiders are fresh off a pounding at Millersville. Tough year for both programs. Can Chris Fite get some payback tomorrow? Flip a coin. Home team gets a slight edge. Ship -1.5

Millersville at Bloomsburg - What's left of the Bloomsburg roster naturally pulled an upset and beat Mansfield the other night. This team is so up and down that it's nearly impossible to predict what will happen next. Bad news for the Huskies, however, is they aren't playing Mansfield tomorrow. Millersville is one of the hottest teams in the Region, and, as of now, the Marauders seem to be a lock for the NCAAs. The 'Ville is clearly favored, but watch the spread. These Huskies are tricky. Marauders -14.5

Shepherd at Mansfield - The Mounties are so close. One night they nearly knock off a heavyweight. The next they lose to Bloomsburg. Shepherd is beyond unpredictable. As of now, Mansfield is on pace for the final spot in the East. But, the margin for error is next to nothing. They better win this one at home. Mounties -2.5

[Ship69]

Favorites were .500 tonight. Sharp lines.

Millersville -8.5… That was uncomfortable for a long, long time lol

That was a carbon copy of the earlier Ship-Millersville game. Ship hung around until early in the second half and then got blown out. When many of us who follow Ship saw the makeup os this year's roster, we knew that to win many games this year's team would have to shoot extremely well. They haven't shot very well most nights, and they haven't won many games. I suspect you'll see a very different (and bigger) Ship team next season.

[IUPalum]

You have your years mixed up.

Joe lost at SH in that crazy game.

The game IUPAlum is referencing was a year or two later. IUP won the game but in the process Anthony Glover got two techs and ejected. Dante broke his wrist on a cheap shot foul. So, they went in to the PSAC Tournament sans both of them. Dante was done for the season and Glover had to sit out due to being ejected. IUP then lost in Round 2 of the PSACs and didn't make the tournament.

My fault, you're right. I was off a year or so.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I could be off by a year, but wasn't that the season they lost to Mercyhurst in the 2nd round? Or was that 2019? That stretch pre-pandemic sort of runs together for me.

Regardless, the team that lost to Seton Hill and missed the tournament (in my opinion) was pretty erratic as it was. Obviously Cobo was really good. But that was the time of not so great Dante. And they had plenty of ups and downs. That team had talent and material, but thinking back, I'm not sure they had the makeup needed to be a legitimate threat in the Regional.

You have your years mixed up.

Joe lost at SH in that crazy game.

The game IUPAlum is referencing was a year or two later. IUP won the game but in the process Anthony Glover got two techs and ejected. Dante broke his wrist on a cheap shot foul. So, they went in to the PSAC Tournament sans both of them. Dante was done for the season and Glover had to sit out due to being ejected. IUP then lost in Round 2 of the PSACs and didn't make the tournament.

[IUP24]

Oh yeah, the year IUP was gooned out of the tourney by Seton Hill.

I could be off by a year, but wasn't that the season they lost to Mercyhurst in the 2nd round? Or was that 2019? That stretch pre-pandemic sort of runs together for me.

Regardless, the team that lost to Seton Hill and missed the tournament (in my opinion) was pretty erratic as it was. Obviously Cobo was really good. But that was the time of not so great Dante. And they had plenty of ups and downs. That team had talent and material, but thinking back, I'm not sure they had the makeup needed to be a legitimate threat in the Regional.

[IUPalum]

I'm aware, having traveled with ESU to the Elite 8 in 2018...IUP Women were there too, were you? I still don't think the NCAA has an open-ended travel budget.

Oh yeah, the year IUP was gooned out of the tourney by Seton Hill.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Not saying you are wrong about number one, but it's abundantly clear how the NCAA views travel expenditures at this level. Consider that they changed the entire makeup of how they structure the D2 football playoffs to ensure that the highest number of games possible do not involve them paying for a flight to a game for a football team. When they changed that, the official press release talked about how they were excited about increasing the opportunities for visiting fans to see their teams play in person in the playoffs. What a crock.. How many more people would that actually bring at this level? 30-50 non-parents/friends/family members if that?

So in an effort to save money on travel, the NCAA could have, in theory, negatively impacted the competitive balance of Division 2 football playoffs. Meanwhile, they are totally okay with expanding the FBS playoffs to continue raking in the money there. But heaven forbid they pay for Assumption to fly to Indianapolis for a first round playoff game.

I guess my point is, I'm for what you said in number two. But how they view this level based on their own actions pertaining to number one is why that simply will never happen.

Correct. At the end of the day -- aside from all the rah-rah bull**** -- the NCAA is in the business of making money. Nothing in D2 makes money. They want to cut their losses as much as possible. Flying teams around the country to play in front of 3,000 paying customers (and not on TV) is a pure losing proposition.

As always, follow the dollar. You'll find your answers.

I know it hurts us loyal D2 people ... but, we're a very, very small community. In the big picture, D2 isn't that imporant to the decision-makers.

[IUP24]

Great use of sarcasm… plus you sound like a moron.

1) The NCAA covers tournament expenses
2) Having more flexibility in the early rounds of the tournament like Division III would be a very good idea to at least consider for Division II. Especially if it increases the competitive balance of the tournament.

Not saying you are wrong about number one, but it's abundantly clear how the NCAA views travel expenditures at this level. Consider that they changed the entire makeup of how they structure the D2 football playoffs to ensure that the highest number of games possible do not involve them paying for a flight to a game for a football team. When they changed that, the official press release talked about how they were excited about increasing the opportunities for visiting fans to see their teams play in person in the playoffs. What a crock.. How many more people would that actually bring at this level? 30-50 non-parents/friends/family members if that?

So in an effort to save money on travel, the NCAA could have, in theory, negatively impacted the competitive balance of Division 2 football playoffs. Meanwhile, they are totally okay with expanding the FBS playoffs to continue raking in the money there. But heaven forbid they pay for Assumption to fly to Indianapolis for a first round playoff game.

I guess my point is, I'm for what you said in number two. But how they view this level based on their own actions pertaining to number one is why that simply will never happen.

[WarriorVoice]

Great use of sarcasm… plus you sound like a moron.

1) The NCAA covers tournament expenses
2) Having more flexibility in the early rounds of the tournament like Division III would be a very good idea to at least consider for Division II. Especially if it increases the competitive balance of the tournament.

I'm aware, having traveled with ESU to the Elite 8 in 2018...IUP Women were there too, were you? I still don't think the NCAA has an open-ended travel budget.

[IUP24]

Not exactly a made-for-TV lineup tonight, but, the show goes on. There are a couple interesting games. As always,happy gambling, you degenerates.


Mansfield at Bloomsburg - What remained of this Bloomsburg team just about beat Shippensburg - despite getting lambasted on the glass. The Huskies showed some heart under tough circumstances. Regardless, Bloomsburg is riding a 5-game losing streak. Ironically, so is Mansfield. The Mounties followed up their spirited, 1-point loss to East Stroudsburg -- naturally with a loss to Bernie's freshmen team. Perhaps Mansfield was hungover a bit. Who knows. The Mounties won the first meeting this year, 85-84 (OT). That was a long time ago. The Huskies are decimated -- especially under the basket (a strong area for Mansfield). Round 1 was a thriller. Round 2 will not be. One streak ends tonight. Mansfield -11.5

Kutztown at Lock Haven - Few probably actually realize it, but Lock Haven is having a heck of a season. The Bald Eagles (14-6) remain solidly in not only the PSAC East race but also in the NCAA picture. It's been a long, long time since Lock Haven basketball was relevent in February. The Golden Bears (3-18) are clearly not in either race. However, despite the record, KU has all the sudden become a fairly tough out. In fact, back in early January, Kutztown put a massive scare into Lock Haven before ultimately falling, 78-72. Tonight shifts back to the cramped confines of Thomas Fieldhouse - one of the more awkward venues in the league for visitors. Both teams are playing well of late. The Bald Eagles just have too much -- and too much to lose. It won't be easy, however. The Bald Eagles eventually pull away. LH -9.5

West Chester at Shepherd - If you're planning to bet this game, do yourself a favor. Go to the ATM, get the cash out and just burn it. Save yourself the agony. No smart gambler would touch either of these teams. For instance, West Chester has a 13-8 record -- which could (should) easily be 17-4. Shepherd is 'up' to 9-11, but without question has the talent to be several games above the .500 mark. Which version of these two teams will show up on a given night? You're guess is as good as mine. The Rams from Shepherdstown lost the first meeting, 82-72. Logic would say Round 2 should be fairly similar. But, there is no logic with either team. Good luck. WCU -7.5

Shippensburg at Millersville - Raiders' fans on this board love Millersville head coach Casey Stitzel. Note: sarcasm. Tonight, they get a full 40 minutes of him -- in his house. These teams are headed in very different directions this season. The Marauders are clearly in the NCAA race. Shippensburg is prepping for next year. On paper, this shouldn't be much of a game. But, strange things happen in rivalries. The Raiders actually lead at halftime in the first meeting but got blitzed afterward -- losing 93-83. However, Ship's mid-year transfer (Donovan Hill) was brand new at that point -- and has come on fairly strong of late. Hill was shutout in the first game and grabbed just 3 rebounds. Much more up to speed now, he should have a much larger impact in the rematch. The Marauders are clearly the favorite, but this could be the 'don't be shocked' game of the night. Pucillo Gymnasium is a tough place to win. But, there could be an upset brewing. 'Ville -8.5

IUP at Mercyhurst - The second meeting between these two a year ago had a ton at stake. Not so much this year. Mercyhurst is a very uncharacteristic 11-12 entering tonight. IUP hasn't had (6) losses on Feb. 7 in probably 15 years. The hobbling Crimson Hawks, however, also have 14 wins -- and, somehow, remain in the postseason hunt. To cliche things up (coach speak, if you will) the records don't mean much in this affair. This is perhaps the best rivarly in the league the past decade. It may not seem like it, but IUP has owned the series over that time. The Lakers, however, got some huge wins in massive moments. The first game -- inside a rowdy KCAC -- saw a very tight, sloppy first half. IUP pulled away after the intermission. While the record shows a team slightly below .500, this Lakers team is far from a pushover -- especially in the MAC. Proof? Mercyhurst has lost (7) games by (6) points or less. No coach has done a consistently better job giving Joe Lombardi fits than Gary Manchel. Add in a little revenge on top of the rivalry factor and IUP will have its hands full. The Crimson Hawks have had a week to prepare for the matchup zone. They got blitzed in Erie a year ago in front of a thunderous crowd. Will it happen again? IUP -1.5

Pitt-Johnstown at Clarion - How big of an impact does the 6'9", 235 lb, Jayson Harris have on Clarion's success? He's missed the past 7 games. The Golden Eagles' record during that time: 0-7. Thankfully for the Tippin faithful, UPJ and its 9-game losing streak is on the way to town. Clarion won the first meeting by 10 points. Even without Harris (who had a huge game in the first meeting), the Golden Eagles are the deeper team -- and significantly bigger and more athletic. The Mountain Cats have a way of hanging around. They can drastically slow the pace and frustrate opponents. This should be a fairly entertaining matchup. One losing streak will end. One will not. Clarion -7.5

California at Seton Hill - Will the Erie hangover be worn off by the time the Vulcans enter the (sometimes) hostile McKenna Center tonight? The Griffins, odd to play against, can make headaches much worse. These two played a pretty tight game in the first meeting. California eventually pulled away at the end and won by 13 points. The Vulcans are cleary the better team, but we've seen some odd performances of late from Danny's bunch. Strange things happen in Greensburg. The claustrophobic, loud gym can take good teams out of sync. Take the Vulcans tonight, but this could be closer than most expect. California -10.5

Edinboro at Gannon - The positive for the Fighting Scots' trip to Erie tonight is they put up 96 points against Gannon last month. The negative, of course, is they gave up 117. Edinboro's offense seems to play its best in the fast-flowing pace. It was swallowed up by IUP's much slower pace. In front of what should be a good crowd, expect Edinboro to hang around a bit. Ganon is coming off a very emotional game and could have a little (not much) lag. The Knights will eventually tire them out and pull away. GU -18.5

Favorites were .500 tonight. Sharp lines.

Millersville -8.5… That was uncomfortable for a long, long time lol

[TheMadLibs]

Yes, D3 model is what I think is most plausible and shown to be successful with lesser costs. Plus if love to see some movement in closer regions. My point isn't that rivalries aren't fun (no sht they are), it's that we lose opportunities to play cross regional by nearby, and some really talented teams are out early out of the more competitive regions like the Atlantic. Even in a down year, while the bottom is BAD our top depth is higher imo.

Without looking deeper at Massey, Inkblot, etc, I could see a first round match up of something like Gannon, Ashland, Daemen and a fourth as a hell of a matchup. And those first two are closer than ESU, Millersville, Fayetteville all are to Erie.