PSAC WEST

[IUPalum]

bit of a stretch lol baiting intends instigating.. i.e. - saying to a player "come at me"... you didn't do a physical action, but you incited any forthcoming physical action that occurs because you instigated it. And I wouldn't put it past a PSAC Official to have said that baiting would include the time as they don't know how how to interpret most rules (like players standing near/on the court when a team is on offense or a bench player touching an on court player, etc).

A bit of a stretch???

ART. 1 . . . Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as:

[bballfan03]

I personally do not think that KJ helped his cause with the Edinboro player incident as this is certainly a bad reflection on both the program and the school. Cannot imagine that the school administration is any too fond of the bad publicity this may have generated. Further, I would be interested as to whether his initial contract term is up this year; if it is then it is a perfect time to go in a different direction. If Coach Jefferson's contract is not up for renewal this year, then the question becomes what is the cost of any potential buyout. With that said, I do not know if coach's' contracts at this level have a buyout clause or whether can they be fired for underperformance with no penalty to the school.

So I did a very quick stat check (not thorough or accurate by any means)... but I was looking at the technicals that came under Coach Reilly and under KJ. It appears Reilly had 2 techs against him in his time and in KJs 4 years he's at 5. The players, under each coach, again by skimming through total season statistics quickly... it looks like there were about 6 under Reilly... KJs players are at 9.

[bballfan03]

My view regarding blowouts: Keep playing and keep scoring ... but it best be with your walk-ons and deep bench guys. If you are going to leave your rotation guys in the game ... you best not be taking a shot in those circumstances. If it's the five walk-ons vs the five walk-ons ... so be it. Have fun. They practice all year for those couple minutes.


The wildest I've seen this year was the end of the IUP vs Clarion game. Both teams emptied their deep benches. Once both empty, it's essentially a JV game for the final couple minutes. The funny part was Clarion's deep bench players are all about 5'8" or 5'9". IUP's deep bench guys are 6"8", 6'10" and 6'7". So, IUP had a guard and four really big dudes playing against what looked like an intramural team. It was an entertaining couple minutes.

I concur. I was never a fan when Coach Reilly would leave his starters in until about 30 secs left in a 20+ game. He said he did early in season because the starters were still developing chemistry and he was getting rotations set... which in the beginning of the year - i still don't like it, but I understand it. However, it happened in February, too. Not figuring things out at that point lol

But, yeah, regardless of the score - when the scrubs are in - let them play! That's the only time they're going to get. Even more especially when it's a local product walk-on. Home gyms go nuts when a local kid hits their first (usually only) shot of the season.

[gman16506]

I hope this is KJs last year. He's shown absolutely nothing as to his ability to be a head college coach. Maybe he's just more suited to be an assistant at a D1 school. One of his better season's was with all of Coach Reilly's leftovers and they've not progressed at all in his 4 years. For all the garbage years Coach Reilly had - he didn't have 4 straight garbage years at any point. Usually 1-2 off and then back near the top of the PSAC. I'm pretty sure Gannon has finished no better than 5th in any of the 4 years - and this year they're contending for the worst of the worst.

I personally do not think that KJ helped his cause with the Edinboro player incident as this is certainly a bad reflection on both the program and the school. Cannot imagine that the school administration is any too fond of the bad publicity this may have generated. Further, I would be interested as to whether his initial contract term is up this year; if it is then it is a perfect time to go in a different direction. If Coach Jefferson's contract is not up for renewal this year, then the question becomes what is the cost of any potential buyout. With that said, I do not know if coach's' contracts at this level have a buyout clause or whether can they be fired for underperformance with no penalty to the school.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

i'm really not one for unwritten rules... you play the game by the stated rules and if someone has an issue with it - that's on them. One I saw in a D1 game the other night... team was up by near 30.. scrubs got in for last minute. There was a 2 second shot clock difference from game time.. at shot clock end (with 3 seconds on game clock) scrub shot a 3. Missed it, but an opposing player shoved the scrub and it started a little squabble. After the game the other coach defended his player by saying "you're up by 30... it's just disrespectful". Now I will agree it was not classy, but being classy isn't a rule specifically. That may have been the only shot that kid got all season and with the way the fans were up on their feet - the house would have came down had he made it. It was not classy, but it wasn't against the rules. Unwritten rules, yes... but if they're not in writing - no consequence is enforceable.

My view regarding blowouts: Keep playing and keep scoring ... but it best be with your walk-ons and deep bench guys. If you are going to leave your rotation guys in the game ... you best not be taking a shot in those circumstances. If it's the five walk-ons vs the five walk-ons ... so be it. Have fun. They practice all year for those couple minutes.


The wildest I've seen this year was the end of the IUP vs Clarion game. Both teams emptied their deep benches. Once both empty, it's essentially a JV game for the final couple minutes. The funny part was Clarion's deep bench players are all about 5'8" or 5'9". IUP's deep bench guys are 6"8", 6'10" and 6'7". So, IUP had a guard and four really big dudes playing against what looked like an intramural team. It was an entertaining couple minutes.

[bballfan03]

Do you think these last few weeks are the final ride for KJ at GU?

Clarion could also open up, although I think they may give him one more year. Cleary is having another rough year at Edinboro but I don't get the sense he has much pressure to win.

The quick fix for both is sitting down at Point Park.

I don't see any other jobs opening in the West unless Rukavina retires or Danny goes back to the MEC.

I hope this is KJs last year. He's shown absolutely nothing as to his ability to be a head college coach. Maybe he's just more suited to be an assistant at a D1 school. One of his better season's was with all of Coach Reilly's leftovers and they've not progressed at all in his 4 years. For all the garbage years Coach Reilly had - he didn't have 4 straight garbage years at any point. Usually 1-2 off and then back near the top of the PSAC. I'm pretty sure Gannon has finished no better than 5th in any of the 4 years - and this year they're contending for the worst of the worst.

[bballfan03]

The somewhat odd item with this Gannon team is they are 2-19 -- yet their bench talks junk for 40 minutes a game. Get what I'm saying here?

It's like the Pittsburgh Pirates dugout talking smack.

To be fair, it's largely been the tracksuit army involved in much of this -- not the dressed players. It finally exploded with the Edinboro incident. Nobody wants to hear the lawn ornaments talking.

I will give it to KJ that his team is still fighting. They haven't tanked, effort-wise.

this i do tremendously agree with! I give it to the team for still fighting for a lost season and I like that the bench players are encouraging and supporting. But i do 100% agree that the non-players talk a lot... 1) for a team that is going to go down as the worst team in school history and 2) for being people that don't ever touch the court. Cowardice... talking when you can't step on the court to try to let your skill or lack there of back it up.

[bballfan03]

Never agreed with this being an "unwritten rule" within the game of baseball. If it's a 2-0 game and you are trying to manufacturer a base runner, that's part of the game. A bunt is a ball in play. The catcher, pitcher, 3rd baseman, and 1st baseman are all allowed to play their positions and field that ball accordingly. Somebody bunting is giving you an out. Situationally, if you're a corner infielder, you need to recognize batter, situation, etc., and position yourself accordingly to take away the opportunity for a player to bunt. I never agreed with the premise of not bunting late in the game to not break up a no-hitter.

i'm really not one for unwritten rules... you play the game by the stated rules and if someone has an issue with it - that's on them. One I saw in a D1 game the other night... team was up by near 30.. scrubs got in for last minute. There was a 2 second shot clock difference from game time.. at shot clock end (with 3 seconds on game clock) scrub shot a 3. Missed it, but an opposing player shoved the scrub and it started a little squabble. After the game the other coach defended his player by saying "you're up by 30... it's just disrespectful". Now I will agree it was not classy, but being classy isn't a rule specifically. That may have been the only shot that kid got all season and with the way the fans were up on their feet - the house would have came down had he made it. It was not classy, but it wasn't against the rules. Unwritten rules, yes... but if they're not in writing - no consequence is enforceable.

[bballfan03]

https://abetterofficial.com/rules/10-5/

10-5 Art1-d

The team is disrespectfully addressing and baiting the other team when they count down. They are baiting them to rush shots! I've had a PSAC official tell me that is the rule but isn't always addressed.

bit of a stretch lol baiting intends instigating.. i.e. - saying to a player "come at me"... you didn't do a physical action, but you incited any forthcoming physical action that occurs because you instigated it. And I wouldn't put it past a PSAC Official to have said that baiting would include the time as they don't know how how to interpret most rules (like players standing near/on the court when a team is on offense or a bench player touching an on court player, etc).

[Scrub]

Never agreed with this being an "unwritten rule" within the game of baseball. If it's a 2-0 game and you are trying to manufacturer a base runner, that's part of the game. A bunt is a ball in play. The catcher, pitcher, 3rd baseman, and 1st baseman are all allowed to play their positions and field that ball accordingly. Somebody bunting is giving you an out. Situationally, if you're a corner infielder, you need to recognize batter, situation, etc., and position yourself accordingly to take away the opportunity for a player to bunt. I never agreed with the premise of not bunting late in the game to not break up a no-hitter.

Probably depends on the score. If it's a 1-0 or 2-0 game, then, yes, you should be able to try to get a baserunner any way you can. That baserunner might make a difference in the out come. I'm with you on that.

But if it's an 8-0 game and that baserunner isn't likely the difference in the game's outcome, then swing the bat and try to challenge the pitcher who has his best stuff that day.

I think that's the thinking behind the "unwritten rule"

[IUPbigINDIANS]

It falls under the category of "bush league" and in the unwritten rules category. I played baseball. This is no different than the dugout or a baserunner yelling "I got it!" on a fly ball that's falling into no man's land and three players are converging into the general area to make a play on the ball.

The somewhat odd item with this Gannon team is they are 2-19 -- yet their bench talks junk for 40 minutes a game. Get what I'm saying here?

It's like the Pittsburgh Pirates dugout talking smack.

To be fair, it's largely been the tracksuit army involved in much of this -- not the dressed players. It finally exploded with the Edinboro incident. Nobody wants to hear the lawn ornaments talking.

I will give it to KJ that his team is still fighting. They haven't tanked, effort-wise.

[IUP24]

Even if it's not stated in the official rules, every sport has unwritten rules (i.e., don't bunt for a base hit in the 8th inning of a no-hitter) that dictate whether or not you're displaying good sportsmanship. So even if it's not against the rules, it's terrible sportsmanship which says a lot about the program within which it occurs. There's a fine line between gamesmanship and bad sportsmanship, but this seems like a fairly obvious violation of sportsmanship IMHO.

And, yes, if the bench is standing during an opponent's offensive set, the ref should sit them down. MEC refs do it all the time--not sure why the PSAC refs let it go on.

Never agreed with this being an "unwritten rule" within the game of baseball. If it's a 2-0 game and you are trying to manufacturer a base runner, that's part of the game. A bunt is a ball in play. The catcher, pitcher, 3rd baseman, and 1st baseman are all allowed to play their positions and field that ball accordingly. Somebody bunting is giving you an out. Situationally, if you're a corner infielder, you need to recognize batter, situation, etc., and position yourself accordingly to take away the opportunity for a player to bunt. I never agreed with the premise of not bunting late in the game to not break up a no-hitter.

[IUP24]

And again find the rules that state so. And again I've seen many, many college benches do it with nothing said.

I didn't play college ball. But played HS and our players ALWAYS did it end of quarters, halves, games. There'd be 10 seconds left and everyone started at 5, 4.. etc. Never once warned or anything. I'd think if it was a violation, it would definitely be enforced at the HS level.

It falls under the category of "bush league" and in the unwritten rules category. I played baseball. This is no different than the dugout or a baserunner yelling "I got it!" on a fly ball that's falling into no man's land and three players are converging into the general area to make a play on the ball.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

https://abetterofficial.com/rules/10-5/

10-5 Art1-d

The team is disrespectfully addressing and baiting the other team when they count down. They are baiting them to rush shots! I've had a PSAC official tell me that is the rule but isn't always addressed.

Do you think these last few weeks are the final ride for KJ at GU?

Clarion could also open up, although I think they may give him one more year. Cleary is having another rough year at Edinboro but I don't get the sense he has much pressure to win.

The quick fix for both is sitting down at Point Park.

I don't see any other jobs opening in the West unless Rukavina retires or Danny goes back to the MEC.

[IUPalum]

Okay now... find where any rules state the bench can't count down the shot clock hahahaha I've seen countless teams do this in college basketball. Bench players should not be standing near the court when a team is on offense.. 100% agree there and that should be on the coaches and referees to control.. but the bench players not counting down the shot clock?? So they can't chant defense either?

https://abetterofficial.com/rules/10-5/

10-5 Art1-d

The team is disrespectfully addressing and baiting the other team when they count down. They are baiting them to rush shots! I've had a PSAC official tell me that is the rule but isn't always addressed.