PSAC WEST

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I considered that, too. I just ended up putting Seton Hill at the bottom of that mix. I've watched a few Rock games now and I think it could end up being a long season for them. They have a load of talent, HOWEVER, they look just like Gannon did the past few years ... very individual-based and lazy. I'm not saying I think they'll get run over - but, as of now, I don't see them having what it takes to pull out the close victories.

Wait until adversity hits a streetball team.

Gas

Fire

Boom


Grady has too many mouths to keep fed

[bballfan03]

I think Gannon, Seton Hill, and Slippery Rock might all be better than UPJ. UPJ had a good deal of trouble putting away Frostburg, which is not a very good squad this season. Of course we'll see before long.

I considered that, too. I just ended up putting Seton Hill at the bottom of that mix. I've watched a few Rock games now and I think it could end up being a long season for them. They have a load of talent, HOWEVER, they look just like Gannon did the past few years ... very individual-based and lazy. I'm not saying I think they'll get run over - but, as of now, I don't see them having what it takes to pull out the close victories.

[IUP24]

I loved Dixon
... Rght up until the day the Golden Panthers thought he hit his peak. Remember that group called all the shots back then behind the scenes.

He didn’t “peak.” But it was pretty well documented that he did not want Pitt to move to the ACC. The move didn’t sit well with him and his coaching style didn’t necessarily work well initially in that league. Him losing the NYC recruiting pool hurt him too.

[Columbuseer]

It's just not as simple as many make it out to be. There's so many reasons why things happen the way they do.

I don't really care about losing a game to Kentucky or Gonzaga on an aircraft carrier. I can talk about that experience 50 years later if I played in that game. And if I'm a West Liberty player, if I get to go down to Daytona, Florida with my teammates for a few days, and we drop a game or two, so be it. 35 years from now, I'll remember the experience I had with my teammates on a unique road trip playing D2 basketball. Those are all recruiting and branding opportunities.

Players and coaches would be lying if they say that they don't want to have in season challenges like that. It has NOTHING to do with bettering your postseason position. Saying you're playing a bunch of branch campuses is no way to build a collegiate basketball schedule because you think that's the path to 30 wins.

Good points. Also, playing a good team can show players how far they must improve while it is early in the season, which could pay dividends in March.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Thanks. I was wondering why I didn't see him when they played Lincoln.

When he's back and up to speed ... that offense will be a real joy to play.

[Ship69]

My west ranking prediction as of now...

1. Cal U
2. IUP (I realize they've been abysmal to this point, however, they've played some good teams... theres not many of those good teams in the PSAC West)
3. UPJ
4. Gannon
5. Seton Hill
6. Rock
7. Hurst (given what ive seen thus far i cant see them beating Cal .. and likely a few other sweeps)
8. Clarion
9. Edinboro

I think Gannon, Seton Hill, and Slippery Rock might all be better than UPJ. UPJ had a good deal of trouble putting away Frostburg, which is not a very good squad this season. Of course we'll see before long.

[Ship69]

Cal isn't full strength yet. Cam Polak is an elite shooter and hasn't played yet this year (wrist).

Thanks. I was wondering why I didn't see him when they played Lincoln.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

My west ranking prediction as of now...

1. Cal U
2. IUP (I realize they've been abysmal to this point, however, they've played some good teams... theres not many of those good teams in the PSAC West)
3. UPJ
4. Gannon
5. Seton Hill
6. Rock
7. Hurst (given what ive seen thus far i cant see them beating Cal .. and likely a few other sweeps)
8. Clarion
9. Edinboro

Cal isn't full strength yet. Cam Polak is an elite shooter and hasn't played yet this year (wrist).

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Jamie Dixon was a master at it with Pitt when he was coaching there.

He had the right mix of scheduling one neutral site game against a big time opponent (think the memorable Duke game in MSG). He always had a home and home with another traditionally strong program (they did that with Wisconsin and Auburn before in the Dixon era). And then he did well to schedule middle of the road teams from strong mid-major conferences. At the time, RPI was the big measurable. Those type of games were huge RPI boosts for Pitt as the season progressed. Typically those schools from those mid-major leagues posed enough of a challenge that his team had to actually play and compete, but they weren't necessarily games they were threatened with a loss. And because those schools were from better mid-major leagues, the top 1-2 would be ranked at some point, and the way in which all the RPIs were calculated back then, it would effectively boost Pitt's RPI as the teams that they played early on also saw their RPI number increase as they entered their conference season. Combined with the strength of the old Big East, Pitt ended every season with a top 5 RPI in the country.

He was a master at the schedule making game.

I loved Dixon
... Rght up until the day the Golden Panthers thought he hit his peak. Remember that group called all the shots back then behind the scenes.

[IUP24]

UPJ has it all figured out. They just make the half hour trip to IUP for two weekend tournaments. Four non-conference games 30 miles away. Then they play a fifth game at the KCAC against IUP ... and typically a sixth game at IUP in the conference tournament.

Jamie Dixon was a master at it with Pitt when he was coaching there.

He had the right mix of scheduling one neutral site game against a big time opponent (think the memorable Duke game in MSG). He always had a home and home with another traditionally strong program (they did that with Wisconsin and Auburn before in the Dixon era). And then he did well to schedule middle of the road teams from strong mid-major conferences. At the time, RPI was the big measurable. Those type of games were huge RPI boosts for Pitt as the season progressed. Typically those schools from those mid-major leagues posed enough of a challenge that his team had to actually play and compete, but they weren't necessarily games they were threatened with a loss. And because those schools were from better mid-major leagues, the top 1-2 would be ranked at some point, and the way in which all the RPIs were calculated back then, it would effectively boost Pitt's RPI as the teams that they played early on also saw their RPI number increase as they entered their conference season. Combined with the strength of the old Big East, Pitt ended every season with a top 5 RPI in the country.

He was a master at the schedule making game.

[IUP24]

Very good analysis and description of some of the complexities. WLU wants to play good teams, but as you said, two parties are involved. WLU is playing good teams in Daytona this year and they lost a non-conf game last year.

It's just not as simple as many make it out to be. There's so many reasons why things happen the way they do.

I don't really care about losing a game to Kentucky or Gonzaga on an aircraft carrier. I can talk about that experience 50 years later if I played in that game. And if I'm a West Liberty player, if I get to go down to Daytona, Florida with my teammates for a few days, and we drop a game or two, so be it. 35 years from now, I'll remember the experience I had with my teammates on a unique road trip playing D2 basketball. Those are all recruiting and branding opportunities.

Players and coaches would be lying if they say that they don't want to have in season challenges like that. It has NOTHING to do with bettering your postseason position. Saying you're playing a bunch of branch campuses is no way to build a collegiate basketball schedule because you think that's the path to 30 wins.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Very good analysis and description of some of the complexities.WLU wants to play good teams, but as you said, two parties are involved. WLU is playing good teams in Daytona this year and they lost a non-conf game last year.

UPJ has it all figured out. They just make the half hour trip to IUP for two weekend tournaments. Four non-conference games 30 miles away. Then they play a fifth game at the KCAC against IUP ... and typically a sixth game at IUP in the conference tournament.

[Columbuseer]

You are missing the point entirely. You simply just believe that teams, your team in particular, should just schedule games that they will never lose.

It takes two to make something happen, regardless of what any program's desires are for building a schedule. There are bad teams willing to play teams that will obliterate them simply to get a payday; consequently, those same good teams may not be looking for a "test," they just may be looking for an easy W on the schedule. But you need two teams to make that work. If you aren't in a location at this level where you can easily manage travel, lodging, etc., it may be tougher to schedule the way you want to schedule. So you have to give and take some. There's not a perfect science to it.

Programs who are getting into the upper tier may be looking for marquee games to help grow their brand, or attract recruits looking to play the best programs. Players want to play in big games and on big stages. And sure, your response will be putting yourself in a position to win 30 games annually will allow those players to play on a big stage in the tournament, but the other types of games are attractive to recruits too. Do you honestly think that at the D1 level it's not a benefit in recruiting to say you'll play in the Maui Invitational, or a tip-off game on an aircraft carrier against a blue-blood? Stuff like that excites players and fans alike. You take the potential for a loss, sure. But those are good marketing and recruiting chips for your program.

Middle of the pack teams are going to have more difficulty getting games against other middle of the pack teams who are their equal, as strange as that sounds. To your logic, why would you schedule a team who can beat you? That's why you don't see Illinois and Vanderbilt, or Northwestern and UVA, scheduling non-conference games against one another in football. So those types of teams get stuck playing branch campuses or West Liberty on the road.

There's no science to it. And there's no guarantee it works out the way you want it to. It's just not as simple as you claim it is. Any coach may have his master plan for how he constructs his non-conference slate, but perhaps the real world doesn't allow him to schedule anything close to what he desires.

Very good analysis and description of some of the complexities.WLU wants to play good teams, but as you said, two parties are involved. WLU is playing good teams in Daytona this year and they lost a non-conf game last year.

[bballfan03]

My west ranking prediction as of now...

1. Cal U
2. IUP (I realize they've been abysmal to this point, however, they've played some good teams... theres not many of those good teams in the PSAC West)
3. UPJ
4. Gannon
5. Seton Hill
6. Rock
7. Hurst (given what ive seen thus far i cant see them beating Cal .. and likely a few other sweeps)
8. Clarion
9. Edinboro

[IUP24]

Clearly every program is different. "Sure" win to a 30 win team is quite different than that of a 10 win one. Thought everyone would realize that... guess not. Same with the definition of a tomato can. A tomato can to a 30 win team is quite different than one for a middle of the pack program. If you are a middle of the pack program, a tomato can looks a lot like a 10 win program...af you are a 30 win program, a tomato can includes the 10 win team, but can also include 15, 16 or even 18 win programs. The definition changes year to year and program to program.

You are missing the point entirely. You simply just believe that teams, your team in particular, should just schedule games that they will never lose.

It takes two to make something happen, regardless of what any program's desires are for building a schedule. There are bad teams willing to play teams that will obliterate them simply to get a payday; consequently, those same good teams may not be looking for a "test," they just may be looking for an easy W on the schedule. But you need two teams to make that work. If you aren't in a location at this level where you can easily manage travel, lodging, etc., it may be tougher to schedule the way you want to schedule. So you have to give and take some. There's not a perfect science to it.

Programs who are getting into the upper tier may be looking for marquee games to help grow their brand, or attract recruits looking to play the best programs. Players want to play in big games and on big stages. And sure, your response will be putting yourself in a position to win 30 games annually will allow those players to play on a big stage in the tournament, but the other types of games are attractive to recruits too. Do you honestly think that at the D1 level it's not a benefit in recruiting to say you'll play in the Maui Invitational, or a tip-off game on an aircraft carrier against a blue-blood? Stuff like that excites players and fans alike. You take the potential for a loss, sure. But those are good marketing and recruiting chips for your program.

Middle of the pack teams are going to have more difficulty getting games against other middle of the pack teams who are their equal, as strange as that sounds. To your logic, why would you schedule a team who can beat you? That's why you don't see Illinois and Vanderbilt, or Northwestern and UVA, scheduling non-conference games against one another in football. So those types of teams get stuck playing branch campuses or West Liberty on the road.

There's no science to it. And there's no guarantee it works out the way you want it to. It's just not as simple as you claim it is. Any coach may have his master plan for how he constructs his non-conference slate, but perhaps the real world doesn't allow him to schedule anything close to what he desires.