Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Central Regional Talk

Collapse

Support The Site!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Moorhead123 View Post

    I guess that’s my point. I don’t understand how conferences/regions with 42-44 teams get same number of regional qualifiers as regions with 34 teams. Not sure how, or if anyone really cares, but that should be looked into by those in charge.
    They tried to equalize that type of inequity in football.

    Comment


    • Excluding Puerto Rico and reclassifying schools, the numbers are:

      South Central: 33 (17+16)
      Southeast: 35 (11+12+12)
      West: 36 (11+12+13)
      East: 37 (9+14+14)
      South: 37 (13+13+11)
      Midwest: 41 (12+12+16+1, though realistically Oakland City shouldn't be counted with their mostly non-D2 schedule)
      Central: 42 (12+14+16)
      Atlantic: 43 (11+12+18+2)

      In sports that a significant number of members don't sponsor, they actually adjust the regional bracket sizes. For instance, in baseball the West region has a 6-team bracket. Of course, as long as each region gets a spot in the round of 8, the size of the regional bracket doesn't mean that much. Men's soccer went to four regions this year, but when it had eight the Central region had only 9 schools total and a two-team regional bracket for a spot in the national quarterfinals, basically giving those teams a two-round bye.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by schnautza View Post

        I'm not sure the number of teams in the region matters as much as the number of conferences and quality teams. In most regions, there are 3 teams. That's 3 auto-bids.
        There are a few regions that seem to be stacked every year - Midwest, Central, West. Others seem to be pretty light with a couple dominant teams, like East, Southeast, Atlantic.
        Having 3 auto-bids gives 3 lower teams the chance to get in, if they can get hot at the right time. In the Midwest, it seems like there are always 3-4 teams that SHOULD have made it, while an autobid or two pushed somebody out. Doesn't really have anything to do with the number of teams in the region, but more to do with how many top-tier contenders are concentrated in one area. I'm not sure how they'd fix that unless they did away with the regionalization all together and went wit 64 bids at large across the country.
        So based on your logic you’d be fine with one region having 100 teams and another 10?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Inkblot View Post
          Excluding Puerto Rico and reclassifying schools, the numbers are:

          South Central: 33 (17+16)
          Southeast: 35 (11+12+12)
          West: 36 (11+12+13)
          East: 37 (9+14+14)
          South: 37 (13+13+11)
          Midwest: 41 (12+12+16+1, though realistically Oakland City shouldn't be counted with their mostly non-D2 schedule)
          Central: 42 (12+14+16)
          Atlantic: 43 (11+12+18+2)

          In sports that a significant number of members don't sponsor, they actually adjust the regional bracket sizes. For instance, in baseball the West region has a 6-team bracket. Of course, as long as each region gets a spot in the round of 8, the size of the regional bracket doesn't mean that much. Men's soccer went to four regions this year, but when it had eight the Central region had only 9 schools total and a two-team regional bracket for a spot in the national quarterfinals, basically giving those teams a two-round bye.
          Seems pretty logical to me that south central shouldn’t get 8 qualifying for a regional.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Moorhead123 View Post

            So based on your logic you’d be fine with one region having 100 teams and another 10?
            Not exactly the takeaway I was looking for. My point was that regionalization is pretty dumb if you are trying to get the best 64 teams in the country into the bracket, since many regions are stronger than others and may have up to 12 teams that should be considered top-64, while others may only have 4-5.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Moorhead123 View Post

              Seems pretty logical to me that south central shouldn’t get 8 qualifying for a regional.
              So how do you fix it? Easy to make a statement without making a pitch to make it better.

              Comment


              • They used to have the region alignment vary by sport to try to equalize things but somewhere along the line it was decided that the regions should be the same for all sports except football.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Thepeman View Post

                  So how do you fix it? Easy to make a statement without making a pitch to make it better.
                  That's the rub. If I'm counting right there are 23 conferences - there's no way to divide that into eight regions evenly. Plus the SC region with just two conferences has two of the largest in it - there's no combination that's going to be much better.

                  I know some will make the argument against regionalization, which is valid, but I'm not convinced there's any collection of people that could put together a "best 64" that looks much better than the current model.

                  Comment


                  • The NCAA should do it the same way for division 2 as they do for Div 1, for the most part.

                    select the best 64 and play on neutral floors.

                    group them together geographically in pods of 8 (this would differ slightly from Div 1 where a UCLA might travel to Nashville)

                    forget the conference thing - why group the GAC MIAA and NSIC together when their schools are probably 10 hours or more from another

                    as for the neutral court thing, we all see the huge advantage that gives a team, especially at this level. So instead, make sure all your member schools know that if they don’t make it, there’s a chance they’d be required to host. For example, a bunch of schools from Missouri Oklahoma and Arkansas who make it might have all went to Drury in Springfield this time.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Tech Boys View Post

                      The GAC plays a 22-game conference schedule, two games vs each of the other eleven.
                      Thank you. In the NSIC we play half the conference twice (14 games) and the other half of the conference once (8 games) for a 22 game schedule as well.

                      So in the case where they're playing everyone twice in the GAC, it would be an advantage to the GAC schools over the NSIC IF the NSIC school plays the bottom half of the conference more times than the top of the conference (assuming wins against both opponents) like Northern did this year. However, it would also appear to be an advantage to an NSIC school if they played and beat more teams from the top half of the conference in comparison to the GAC where they play everyone twice, no matter what.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by MisterWizard View Post
                        The NCAA should do it the same way for division 2 as they do for Div 1, for the most part.

                        select the best 64 and play on neutral floors.

                        group them together geographically in pods of 8 (this would differ slightly from Div 1 where a UCLA might travel to Nashville)

                        forget the conference thing - why group the GAC MIAA and NSIC together when their schools are probably 10 hours or more from another

                        as for the neutral court thing, we all see the huge advantage that gives a team, especially at this level. So instead, make sure all your member schools know that if they don’t make it, there’s a chance they’d be required to host. For example, a bunch of schools from Missouri Oklahoma and Arkansas who make it might have all went to Drury in Springfield this time.
                        The only problem I see with that would be the attendance would be abysmal without a host team or a dog in the fight. Division 1 draws no matter who is playing because it's March Madness and people are interested, but early round games in D2... I don't see it. Maybe there isn't that much value in that to anyone... I don't know. Outside of the host team's sessions, the attendance is hit or miss anyway, I guess.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Thepeman View Post

                          So how do you fix it? Easy to make a statement without making a pitch to make it better.
                          Probably not rocket science, but I certainly don’t know all the variables. Could copy d1 rules, or could have a realignment committee meet before each season and reallocate the regional bids. For example, and assuming the numbers above are correct you could drop three smaller regions to seven bids and increase three larger regions to 9 bids.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Randy View Post

                            I haven't bothered to read the selection criteria this year but I know in the past (and I doubt it's changed) winning a conference tournament is not listed. The wins and the opponents played matter but not the tournament championship. Head-to-head has always been listed as a tiebreaker but when the games were played was not. It doesn't matter if it's November or March.

                            The spreadsheet posted by schnautza shows that Northern has the better record, PI & regional record. The GAC school have the better OW%, OOW%, ranked record and RPI. My guess is the committee didn't think Northern had separated themselves from the GAC schools and used the tiebreaker.
                            Interesting that winning a conference tournament isn't listed as a criteria to seed teams. Not having it in there, I guess makes sense for Northern to get a 4 seed. It would seem to me that maybe the criteria should be looked and re-assessed. The conference tournament emulates how the Regional is played - so it would seem to me you would reward a team for playing great for 3 out of 4 days at the end of the year like the regional and national tournament are going to be. But here I am just sitting behind a computer so my input matters a lot I'm sure.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by schnautza View Post

                              Not exactly the takeaway I was looking for. My point was that regionalization is pretty dumb if you are trying to get the best 64 teams in the country into the bracket, since many regions are stronger than others and may have up to 12 teams that should be considered top-64, while others may only have 4-5.
                              Clearly the current system goal is not to get the top 64 teams in the country in. No question umd is top 64 in the country, for example. My theory is that the larger the region the more likely you will leave some team deserving on the outside looking in, while the smaller regions probably get a team or two in that should not be in. This is not always the case, obviously.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by #WolvesNation View Post

                                Interesting that winning a conference tournament isn't listed as a criteria to seed teams. Not having it in there, I guess makes sense for Northern to get a 4 seed. It would seem to me that maybe the criteria should be looked and re-assessed. The conference tournament emulates how the Regional is played - so it would seem to me you would reward a team for playing great for 3 out of 4 days at the end of the year like the regional and national tournament are going to be. But here I am just sitting behind a computer so my input matters a lot I'm sure.
                                Seems like d1 selection committee takes the respective conference tournaments into account when determining the field of 64??

                                Comment

                                Ad3

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X