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  • Originally posted by Taxman View Post

    How many people realize the foul ended up in the books on Lambert instead of Martin?
    True

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Taxman View Post

      How many people realize the foul ended up in the books on Lambert instead of Martin?
      Yes

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Taxman View Post

        How many people realize the foul ended up in the books on Lambert instead of Martin?
        Good point... I had forgotten that was the announcement. Either way, I don’t feel he necessarily did anything dirty on that play as was suggested. Now I want to go back and see if I can see what Lambert did! Lol

        Comment


        • How did that happen? I just thought it was on Martin and only realized it was not put in the official book that way due to the broadcast calling Martin's next foul as his first.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Alfred33 View Post

            Good point... I had forgotten that was the announcement. Either way, I don’t feel he necessarily did anything dirty on that play as was suggested. Now I want to go back and see if I can see what Lambert did! Lol
            I guess Lambert did kind of body into Hawkins while he and Martin were tied up and helped cause the fall. Cam is so big, I didn’t even see Lambert the first couple of times I watched it.

            Comment


            • Southern will beat NW once Boschee figures out playing away from Martin is exactly how to get that accomplished. I'd be pretty miffed if I was the next 5 dudes for Southern. They are really good and being overshadowed by a bully ball artist that still sees the floor while being a complete zero on defense. Is it just v. NW that he doesn't play a lick of defense? I'd like someone to run the analytics on what Martin's defensive assignment has scored each possession v. what he has scored. I bet you'd be shocked by what it is. He has definitely given up more than he has scored v. NW and that is in spite of Boschee attempting to hide him on that end of the court.

              The 2 times Dreamer was pushed over were textbook player control fouls. Defender had established LGP, offensive player initiated and created excessive contact with his shoulder directly into the defender's chest which displaced the defender from his LGP, creating an advantage for the offensive player and disadvantage for the defensive player. You can get away with that contact in the fall.

              Seems like the MIAA has had the same clowns showing up at the Muni since 2003? The one ref shown in the clip at :35 is notorious for changing how he calls the game as the game goes on. All that does is lead to inconsistent ****ty officiating and the players, coaches, and fans all pissed off. You'd think consistency would be the strength of experienced referees. Consistently inconsistent doesn't count.

              In spite of all of that, what an incredible game from the true frosh Dreamer. Ben doesn't recruit or play soft dudes.

              Trevor Hudgins. Just an incredible basketball player for any level.

              I hope everyone realizes and enjoys just how high of a level of ball NW is playing. Basketball porn.
              Last edited by Taxman; 03-09-2020, 05:40 PM.

              Comment


              • I think there are several low to mid-major D1 programs that would want no part of NWMSU or MSSU.

                Comment


                • Just for fun, here's a D3-style bracket. I tried to have the top 2 in each region be pod hosts, but in two cases I had to switch from the 2 to the 3 due to geography. I tried to avoid having teams from the same conference in a pod, but where I couldn't avoid it, I made sure they at least wouldn't meet in the first round. The only flights needed under the 600-mile rule would be the two GNAC teams and Michigan Tech. This field includes Minnesota–Duluth, Grand Valley State, and West Alabama rather than Colorado Mines, Dallas Baptist, and Belmont Abbey.

                  TOP LEFT QUADRANT

                  1 Lincoln Memorial
                  2 Alabama–Huntsville
                  3 Bellarmine
                  4 Winston–Salem State

                  1 Valdosta State
                  2 Nova Southeastern
                  3 Lander
                  4 Southern Wesleyan

                  1 St. Thomas Aquinas
                  2 St. Anselm
                  3 Mercyhurst
                  4 Dominican (NY)

                  1 West Liberty
                  2 UNC Pembroke
                  3 Le Moyne
                  4 Ferris State

                  BOTTOM LEFT QUADRANT

                  1 Florida Southern
                  2 Michigan Tech
                  3 Palm Beach Atlantic
                  4 Miles

                  1 Queens (NC)
                  2 Jefferson
                  3 Augusta
                  4 Embry–Riddle (FL)

                  1 St. Edward's
                  2 Southern Nazarene
                  3 Texas A&M Kingsville
                  4 Oklahoma Baptist

                  1 West Texas A&M
                  2 Seattle Pacific
                  3 Rogers State
                  4 Colorado Mesa

                  TOP RIGHT QUADRANT

                  1 UC San Diego
                  2 Chico State
                  3 Point Loma Nazarene
                  4 Western Washington

                  1 Southeastern Oklahoma State
                  2 UMSL
                  3 Angelo State
                  4 West Alabama

                  1 Azusa Pacific
                  2 Cal Poly Pomona
                  3 Dixie State
                  4 Cal State San Bernardino

                  1 Bridgeport
                  2 Shippensburg
                  3 Stonehill
                  4 Walsh

                  BOTTOM RIGHT QUADRANT

                  1 Northwest Missouri State
                  2 Northern State
                  3 Southern Indiana
                  4 Minnesota–Duluth

                  1 Truman
                  2 Missouri Southern
                  3 Henderson State
                  4 Grand Valley State

                  1 Indianapolis
                  2 Charleston (WV)
                  3 Lee
                  4 Daemen

                  1 Indiana (PA)
                  2 Fairmont State
                  3 Catawba
                  4 Virginia State

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by NWFanatic View Post
                    I think there are several low to mid-major D1 programs that would want no part of NWMSU or MSSU.
                    Maybe none of the Bearcats, but I bet they’d take Martin :)

                    Comment


                    • This post is by no means intended to say Martin is a better defender than Hawkins. However, let’s compare the known defensive stats of these two since Hawkins was the MIAA defensive player of the year and some comments here are that Cam Martin is a bad defender.

                      We really don’t know who guards whom and when and how offensive players did against anyone. So we can’t say objectively who gives up fewer points.

                      Here’s what we know or would probably agree with:

                      Hawkins is a 6’7 220 pound forward who moves well.
                      Martin is a 6’9 240 pound post who isn’t as quick.

                      Hawkins averages a defensive rebound for every 6.4 minutes played.
                      Martin gets defensive boards more often, once every 4.2 minutes (about 50% better).

                      Hawkins blocks a shot once every 44.3 minutes played.
                      Martin blocks a shot every 19.5 minutes.

                      Hawkins gets a steal every 16.3 minutes played (impressive, he’s the defensive poy).
                      Martin gets a steal every 48.2 minutes played (he mostly stays between his man and the basket).

                      Subjective to my opinion:
                      Hawkins’ ball-hawk defense creates turnovers and missed shots.
                      Martin’s presence leads to altered shots near the goal.

                      This is just a defensive comparison.

                      Both probably work hard on offense, but I’d also offer my opinion that Cam is doing what he can defensively after working pretty dang hard on every offensive possession, where he both dishes it out and gets leaned on and hacked all game long. Hawkins is also active on “O” but Northwest runs a pretty deliberate half court offense probably offering its players a bit more of a chance to catch their breath before heading back down to defend.

                      And one final point. When getting one to two offensive fouls per game called on you, you have to be a little more cautious on defense or you find yourself on the bench.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Purple Mav Man View Post

                        Maybe none of the Bearcats, but I bet they’d take Martin :)
                        I meant playing either of those 2 teams

                        Comment


                        • Cam Martin vs. Parker Fox has the potential to make this message board explode. It will be a matchup of two very talented, but very different big men. However, I wonder how much they will actually be matched up on each other. I could see Northern trying to put King or Belka on Martin as much as possible and having Parker help. Fox will surely guard Martin at times, but I think they will try to spread out the fouls and beating that Martin dishes out.

                          On the other side it seems that Mo Southern tries to hide Martin at times. I’m not sure who he would guard in that case, probably Kallman which could lead to a big game if he is hitting shots. I’m sure Martin will guard Fox at times as well and I like that matchup for the Wolves. I think Fox has a quickness advantage there.

                          NSU’s Achilles this year has been rebounding. If they don’t tighten that up Martin could go for 50 pts and 25 rebs. I liked some of the comments from Mo West when they beat Southern that he is one man, and he can’t beat you alone. If the Wolves can make the other 4 Southern players stand and watch Martin I like their chances. I think it has a chance to be a phenomenal game.

                          My one fear is a common one in any game Cam Martin is involved in: the way the game is officiated could decide things. D2 officials can sometimes struggle, but as long as the game is called consistently it should be a great game to watch.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Thunder View Post
                            Cam Martin vs. Parker Fox has the potential to make this message board explode. It will be a matchup of two very talented, but very different big men. However, I wonder how much they will actually be matched up on each other. I could see Northern trying to put King or Belka on Martin as much as possible and having Parker help. Fox will surely guard Martin at times, but I think they will try to spread out the fouls and beating that Martin dishes out.

                            On the other side it seems that Mo Southern tries to hide Martin at times. I’m not sure who he would guard in that case, probably Kallman which could lead to a big game if he is hitting shots. I’m sure Martin will guard Fox at times as well and I like that matchup for the Wolves. I think Fox has a quickness advantage there.

                            NSU’s Achilles this year has been rebounding. If they don’t tighten that up Martin could go for 50 pts and 25 rebs. I liked some of the comments from Mo West when they beat Southern that he is one man, and he can’t beat you alone. If the Wolves can make the other 4 Southern players stand and watch Martin I like their chances. I think it has a chance to be a phenomenal game.

                            My one fear is a common one in any game Cam Martin is involved in: the way the game is officiated could decide things. D2 officials can sometimes struggle, but as long as the game is called consistently it should be a great game to watch.
                            I'm guessing MSSU will put Martin on your weakest outside shooter. That way he can sag into the middle and rebound and alter/block shots at the rim.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Thepeman View Post

                              I'm guessing MSSU will put Martin on your weakest outside shooter. That way he can sag into the middle and rebound and alter/block shots at the rim.
                              That’s one of the tough things playing northern. They can put 4 shooters on the floor around fox. Chapman probably weakest outside shooter. Fox wants to block everything he can in the paint. He may get away with a few goaltends as well.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by MisterWizard View Post
                                This post is by no means intended to say Martin is a better defender than Hawkins. However, let’s compare the known defensive stats of these two since Hawkins was the MIAA defensive player of the year and some comments here are that Cam Martin is a bad defender.

                                We really don’t know who guards whom and when and how offensive players did against anyone. So we can’t say objectively who gives up fewer points.

                                Here’s what we know or would probably agree with:

                                Hawkins is a 6’7 220 pound forward who moves well.
                                Martin is a 6’9 240 pound post who isn’t as quick.

                                Hawkins averages a defensive rebound for every 6.4 minutes played.
                                Martin gets defensive boards more often, once every 4.2 minutes (about 50% better).

                                Hawkins blocks a shot once every 44.3 minutes played.
                                Martin blocks a shot every 19.5 minutes.

                                Hawkins gets a steal every 16.3 minutes played (impressive, he’s the defensive poy).
                                Martin gets a steal every 48.2 minutes played (he mostly stays between his man and the basket).

                                Subjective to my opinion:
                                Hawkins’ ball-hawk defense creates turnovers and missed shots.
                                Martin’s presence leads to altered shots near the goal.

                                This is just a defensive comparison.

                                Both probably work hard on offense, but I’d also offer my opinion that Cam is doing what he can defensively after working pretty dang hard on every offensive possession, where he both dishes it out and gets leaned on and hacked all game long. Hawkins is also active on “O” but Northwest runs a pretty deliberate half court offense probably offering its players a bit more of a chance to catch their breath before heading back down to defend.

                                And one final point. When getting one to two offensive fouls per game called on you, you have to be a little more cautious on defense or you find yourself on the bench.
                                I don’t disagree with this. Martin’s weakness is moving laterally and when he guards a Dreamer or a Waters that can shoot, they go right around him if he closes out. Diego isn’t as consistent a shooter, so it seems to be the matchup Boschee likes, because Martin can sag off. Diego obviously can still blow by Cam, but he missed 2 or 3 buckets at the rim Sunday just due to his presence. Personally, I’d like to see NW exploit that matchup more because Diego could draw some fouls and is a really good passer If the help comes. Regardless, Martin does what they ask him to do. Against a true post player, Martin probably holds his own and then some. We just don’t have any of those.

                                I found it humorous in the game in Maryville, that while Martin was guarding 6’ Benard, the Cats were similarly trying to protect Hawkins. The now 2 time defensive player of the year spent a lot of time matched up against 5’10” Parker Jennings.
                                Last edited by Alfred33; 03-09-2020, 10:15 PM.

                                Comment

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