MIAA Week 7 Chat

[Randy]

Re: MIAA Week 7 Chat

I'm not sure about this, when Kim was at UCM and he had the machine up and running I'd say it's very close. So far I'd say Kim had more postseason success (2 final fours and 1 natty) and Ben has had more regular season success, albeit in a league that did not have KA to challenge him. I'd also say Kim had to compete in an MIAA with much better coaches and talent for most of his tenure than Ben has had to compete with during his. As recruiters they're just different. Ben has done better finding high school talent and Kim is better at identifying transfers that fit what we wants to do and convincing them to play D2 ball. All being said, Ben is a phenomenal coach as is KA.

Just to clarify, 1 national championship and 2 other final 4's (3 final 4's in all).

[Predatory Primates]

Re: MIAA Week 7 Chat

I'm not sure about this, when Kim was at UCM and he had the machine up and running I'd say it's very close. So far I'd say Kim had more postseason success (2 final fours and 1 natty) and Ben has had more regular season success, albeit in a league that did not have KA to challenge him. I'd also say Kim had to compete in an MIAA with much better coaches and talent for most of his tenure than Ben has had to compete with during his. As recruiters they're just different. Ben has done better finding high school talent and Kim is better at identifying transfers that fit what we wants to do and convincing them to play D2 ball. All being said, Ben is a phenomenal coach as is KA.

KA definitely seems to be all about the transfers so far at Pitt.

[Kiss My Ass]

Re: MIAA Week 7 Chat

I'm not sure about this, when Kim was at UCM and he had the machine up and running I'd say it's very close. So far I'd say Kim had more postseason success (2 final fours and 1 natty) and Ben has had more regular season success, albeit in a league that did not have KA to challenge him. I'd also say Kim had to compete in an MIAA with much better coaches and talent for most of his tenure than Ben has had to compete with during his. As recruiters they're just different. Ben has done better finding high school talent and Kim is better at identifying transfers that fit what we wants to do and convincing them to play D2 ball. All being said, Ben is a phenomenal coach as is KA.

One or two year transfers worked for Kim Anderson. I just prefer Ben McCollum's approach of recruiting high school kids that are in your program for 4 or 5 years.

[Alfred33]

Re: MIAA Week 7 Chat

I'm not sure about this, when Kim was at UCM and he had the machine up and running I'd say it's very close. So far I'd say Kim had more postseason success (2 final fours and 1 natty) and Ben has had more regular season success, albeit in a league that did not have KA to challenge him. I'd also say Kim had to compete in an MIAA with much better coaches and talent for most of his tenure than Ben has had to compete with during his. As recruiters they're just different. Ben has done better finding high school talent and Kim is better at identifying transfers that fit what we wants to do and convincing them to play D2 ball. All being said, Ben is a phenomenal coach as is KA.

I agree with all of this. I like Kim Anderson and he had tremendous success at UCM. He had the same kind of consistency year to year as Ben is having. Northwest is on a heck of a run and Ben deserves a tremendous amount of credit. We're just now getting to the point of having the expectations year in and year out that you had at Central. Doesn't seem like that long ago that getting to a regional was a big deal for Northwest, and now we're on the verge of hosting our 3rd in a row. That's just crazy for me to think about. And you're absolutely right, they go about recruiting in a completely different way. I prefer Ben's way, because it allows us as fans to really get attached to players and their successes. Many times, the kids are here for 5 years by the time they're done and being a relatively small community, we get to know them a little off the court too. Just because I prefer it, doesn't mean it's the only way... obviously Joey has been a huge part of this team's success as a transfer, and Kim has more than proven that it can work. His problem at Mizzou was all the transfers were leaving instead of coming... it was rough. I feel like he'll get it going at Pitt. As far as X's and O's, I think it would be hard to say that one is better than the other at this point, based on what each has accomplished. I just know I love our coach and where our program is right now. Hopefully, he's not in a hurry to move on... but if he does eventually leave, I hope it's for the right job and not just a job.

[NWHoops]

Re: MIAA Week 7 Chat

I'm not sure about this, when Kim was at UCM and he had the machine up and running I'd say it's very close. So far I'd say Kim had more postseason success (2 final fours and 1 natty) and Ben has had more regular season success, albeit in a league that did not have KA to challenge him. I'd also say Kim had to compete in an MIAA with much better coaches and talent for most of his tenure than Ben has had to compete with during his. As recruiters they're just different. Ben has done better finding high school talent and Kim is better at identifying transfers that fit what we wants to do and convincing them to play D2 ball. All being said, Ben is a phenomenal coach as is KA.

The postseason success is a good debate. Natty's- tied at 1 (see more below). Kim has more final 4's but Ben had a run of 4 straight Sweet 16's so there has been some consistency there. Obviously Kim had a longer period of sustained success but I think Ben can get there with time. The only question is how long will he be here. Ultimately that is up to him. I think those mid-major schools have already been in contact in the past but I think he wants the right situation. Will that situation come along or will he sacrifice some of what he believes is the "right situation" to have an opportunity to make that leap? Time will tell.

Natty's- With a little injury luck, we could be looking at 2 Natty's for Ben and none for Kim. In 13-14 when UCM won it, the teams split the regular season. They met in the first Sweet 16 of NW's run and Starzl went down with a torn Achilles about 5 minutes into the game. NW still took UCM to OT in that game and Cooper back rimmed a 30 footer as the clock expired and UCM got the 1 point win. If Starzl stays healthy, I can easily see NW winning that game and going on to win the championship.

[Alfred33]

Re: MIAA Week 7 Chat

The postseason success is a good debate. Natty's- tied at 1 (see more below). Kim has more final 4's but Ben had a run of 4 straight Sweet 16's so there has been some consistency there. Obviously Kim had a longer period of sustained success but I think Ben can get there with time. The only question is how long will he be here. Ultimately that is up to him. I think those mid-major schools have already been in contact in the past but I think he wants the right situation. Will that situation come along or will he sacrifice some of what he believes is the "right situation" to have an opportunity to make that leap? Time will tell.

Natty's- With a little injury luck, we could be looking at 2 Natty's for Ben and none for Kim. In 13-14 when UCM won it, the teams split the regular season. They met in the first Sweet 16 of NW's run and Starzl went down with a torn Achilles about 5 minutes into the game. NW still took UCM to OT in that game and Cooper back rimmed a 30 footer as the clock expired and UCM got the 1 point win. If Starzl stays healthy, I can easily see NW winning that game and going on to win the championship.

Ifs and buts.... If Justin Pitts hadn't got hurt last year, then are talking Ben 3 and Kim 0? I'm just messing around, but I'm sure if we break things down that way, we can make anyone look better or worse then the actual results. There may be a year in there that Kim didn't make the final 4 or did, but didn't win the championship and had an injured player... If we're dealing with hypotheticals, maybe Kim would have won 2 or 3 with better luck. Or maybe not. But yes, losing Starzl that game did suck for us. Partly, because at the time, we didn't know if we'd get that close again. Things have definitely evolved here.

[Shanghai Mule]

Re: MIAA Week 7 Chat

One or two year transfers worked for Kim Anderson. I just prefer Ben McCollum's approach of recruiting high school kids that are in your program for 4 or 5 years.

When scouting and recruiting juco and other transfers you have about four years of history to look at (two years of high school + two years of college). When scouting high school you're just looking at two years of young history. It seems to me that it takes a lot more effort and skill to identify high potential recruitable high school talent.

[NWHoops]

Re: MIAA Week 7 Chat

Ifs and buts.... If Justin Pitts hadn't got hurt last year, then are talking Ben 3 and Kim 0? I'm just messing around, but I'm sure if we break things down that way, we can make anyone look better or worse then the actual results. There may be a year in there that Kim didn't make the final 4 or did, but didn't win the championship and had an injured player... If we're dealing with hypotheticals, maybe Kim would have won 2 or 3 with better luck. Or maybe not. But yes, losing Starzl that game did suck for us. Partly, because at the time, we didn't know if we'd get that close again. Things have definitely evolved here.

Oh absolutely, I'm sure UCM fans have some of those what ifs. However, I think losing in OT to the eventual national champion while losing arguably the second best player on the team in the middle of the game is different than saying if Pitts didn't get hurt then maybe we win 6 more games. Hence, I didn't include anything about last year. We got beat down by Mankato and the road was longer for the what ifs last year than it was in 13-14. There was no beat down in 13-14, just a heck of a game.

[Alfred33]

Re: MIAA Week 7 Chat

When scouting and recruiting juco and other transfers you have about four years of history to look at (two years of high school + two years of college). When scouting high school you're just looking at two years of young history. It seems to me that it takes a lot more effort and skill to identify high potential recruitable high school talent.

This is where I'm curious to see what kind of effect losing Coach Meyer to the women's team has, if any. It's basically a 2 person staff and the assistant (Zach Schneider) is in his first paid year.

[Kiss My Ass]

Re: MIAA Week 7 Chat

When scouting and recruiting juco and other transfers you have about four years of history to look at (two years of high school + two years of college). When scouting high school you're just looking at two years of young history. It seems to me that it takes a lot more effort and skill to identify high potential recruitable high school talent.

This is where I'm curious to see what kind of effect losing Coach Meyer to the women's team has, if any. It's basically a 2 person staff and the assistant (Zach Schneider) is in his first paid year.

That goes to the point that Shanghai Mule was making. Will coach Ben McCollum be able to keep it going without coach Meyer out there finding the talent.

[Btech#3]

Re: MIAA Week 7 Chat

I think building it with prmarily HS kids is the best way and then mixing in a transfer or two to address an immediate need is a good recipe (ie NWMS). My observation of Pitt State doing it with a ton of transfers looked kind of dysfunctional. I think both can work but it seems to me the margin for error is greater going the transfer route.

[Predatory Primates]

Re: MIAA Week 7 Chat

Some of the transfers at Pitt are 1 and done guys who already used up their d1 playing time. I think it would be better to have at least 2 years with a guy instead of just one.
Eg:Last year, Franklin had some of the issues I see with lazoya this year. This year it all clicked for Franklin.

[Shanghai Mule]

Re: MIAA Week 7 Chat

KA definitely seems to be all about the transfers so far at Pitt.

KA (in due course) will flush out the inherited high school players and then it will all be juco and transfers from other four year programs.

[Donkeydamus]

Re: MIAA Week 7 Chat

Moberly (MO) Junior College has always been a staging area for MU recruits trying to make the jump to Mizzou. With KA being a former MU player, he was able to tap into that pool of players and bring some of that talent to UCM. One of KA's assistant coaches at Pitt comes from Moberly, so the pipeline continues. Long story short, KA will focus on the jucos and hunt for D1 college transfers.

[Mule4ever]

Re: MIAA Week 7 Chat

Moberly (MO) Junior College has always been a staging area for MU recruits trying to make the jump to Mizzou. With KA being a former MU player, he was able to tap into that pool of players and bring some of that talent to UCM. One of KA's assistant coaches at Pitt comes from Moberly, so the pipeline continues. Long story short, KA will focus on the jucos and hunt for D1 college transfers.

And I'll give anyone two to one odds for a dollar that his teams will kick the crap out of coach K's.