G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

[BlueBlood]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

Looks like the G-MAC is going to be a nice little lacrosse conference. And yes, I realize that there are only 66 D2 men's lacrosse schools and that this artificially inflates the rankings. Still, the below rankings are good to see.

[BlueBlood]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

Lady Jackets and Malone men win indoor track championships.

Both contests were EXTREMELY tight at the top:
Women's - Cedarville, Ursuline and Malone
Men's- Malone and Cedarville

Malone's addition really changed the dynamics of this meet quite a bit, as did a couple schools taking their first shot at the indoor season. Be ready for more changes next year, as Hillsdale and Findlay are traditionally stronger teams than Malone (for both Men's and Women's).

[UFSwimDad]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

Lady Jackets and Malone men win indoor track championships.

Both contests were EXTREMELY tight at the top:
Women's - Cedarville, Ursuline and Malone
Men's- Malone and Cedarville

Malone's addition really changed the dynamics of this meet quite a bit, as did a couple schools taking their first shot at the indoor season. Be ready for more changes next year, as Hillsdale and Findlay are traditionally stronger teams than Malone (for both Men's and Women's).

Witnessed my first ever indoor track meet at UF yesterday. The UF woman's throwers are real good! Very interesting event!

[BlueBlood]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

Witnessed my first ever indoor track meet at UF yesterday. The UF woman's throwers are real good! Very interesting event!

The throws, and other specialized events (high jump, pole vault) will probably change dramatically next year.

CU and Malone seem to have a similar formula that concentrates on middle distances and higher - with the same athletes running XC, and Indoor and Outdoor Track. Obviously, you get a big bang for your buck (literally) by doing that. Trevecca actually does the same thing, just with lesser results. Ursuline (obviously on the women's side only) seems to concentrate on the jumps and sprints (same athletes doing both). They seem to have formula that concentrates on what the others do not - and it has worked. On the women's side, KWC has the best throwers (again, concentrating on what other do not) - they went largely uncontested this year. On the men's side, you see a decent number of AB and KWC football players - again, the school benefitting from the athlete doing a second sport (or third if you count Indoor and Outdoor as two).

All that to say, none of the current schools is a classic across-the-board track and field team. Even with CU and UC women being nationally ranked, they still have noticeable holes - which, as mentioned above, happen to be opposites of each other. Most schools have found a way to use versatile athletes and don't have a strong (scholarship?) athlete that focuses solely on one specialized event (the pole vault, or the throws, or the high jump). That will change next year.

[UFSwimDad]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

Messing around on a late Monday afternoon I ran across this article for and year ago

http://footballscoop.com/news/a-conf...ga-conference/

This would seem to knock out almost all the NAIA schools that could possibly want to jump to the GMAC. Of course if a school is determined to do D2 then I doubt this will stop them. Add this to the lack of info on if any of the NAIA schools are even trying to jump up, one could conclude that expansion south may be dead. Obviously I am speculating here as there could very well be discussions going on that have been kept in house.

With the closing of St Joe, I am very curious about Bellermine and UINDY. Another poster mentioned that both schools are now the eastern most schools and a move to GMAC would make sense with a group of five schools fairly close together (UINDY, BU, KWC, TVN, and the stretch school, OD) would those two schools satisfy TVN?

As much as I hate to say it, TVN may be left behind. All these OH schools prob spell doom for them at some point if the league cannot turn a couple of the NAIA schools.

I cannot see Tiffin not joining next season. All indications are there. Will Ashland want to be the only Ohio school in the GLIAC? Who knows. Could the league get one or two WV schools to join especially since it has been stated that private schools in the state need to make headways in the state of Ohio? The additions of UINDY, BU, Tiffin, Ashland, and a WV school would fit fairly nicely but that is probably just my dream thinking taking over.

I guess the point is that I really have no clue 😁

[BlueBlood]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

Messing around on a late Monday afternoon I ran across this article for and year ago

http://footballscoop.com/news/a-conf...ga-conference/

This would seem to knock out almost all the NAIA schools that could possibly want to jump to the GMAC......

I actually view the 20 team league as a weakness, not a strength. They make it sound like its a merger of the Mid-South and the Sun Conference. In reality, only 8 of those schools are MSC schools and only 3 are from the Sun. The others are from the Appalachian, Southern States and River States Conferences.

That group of conferences has collectively lost schools to the NCAA recently. If you draw a line from the Indiana/Ohio border to the Texas/Louisiana border (including all of KY), there are only 20 NAIA football playing schools east of that line. Basically, they are pulling the remnants together.

So, with that as a backdrop, I think the 20-team football league is really a defensive measure to protect against the impact losing additional schools would have.

[UFSwimDad]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

I actually view the 20 team league as a weakness, not a strength. They make it sound like its a merger of the Mid-South and the Sun Conference. In reality, only 8 of those schools are MSC schools and only 3 are from the Sun. The others are from the Appalachian, Southern States and River States Conferences.

That group of conferences has collectively lost schools to the NCAA recently. If you draw a line from the Indiana/Ohio border to the Texas/Louisiana border (including all of KY), there are only 20 NAIA football playing schools east of that line. Basically, they are pulling the remnants together.

So, with that as a backdrop, I think the 20-team football league is really a defensive measure to protect against the impact losing additional schools would have.

Interesting. I would have to agree with your take. It makes perfect sense for those schools but I am not certain that any of those schools would want to make a jump now. It's seems very cozy for them and they get three bids and get to play like schools. 20 team mega leagues may not be the future but I could see this happening more.

[alumnifan]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

I agree. As to this bleeding over into D2, what Conference scenario combinations are there?

Instead of mining other conferences, D3 programs should move up in the NCAA. It's the largest division in the NCAA.

[UFSwimDad]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

I agree. As to this bleeding over into D2, what Conference scenario combinations are there?

Instead of mining other conferences, D3 programs should move up in the NCAA. It's the largest division in the NCAA.

I am under the impression that D3 schools like the blueprint that they are currently in and really stress the STUDENT in the student / athlete. Most D3 schools I have talked with are happy with this blueprint and wouldn't want to begin to fund athletic scholarships. Other than maybe state schools that are currently D3 such as University of Wisconsin- Whitewater, I wouldn't think many would want to move to D2

[BlueBlood]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

I am under the impression that D3 schools like the blueprint that they are currently in and really stress the STUDENT in the student / athlete. Most D3 schools I have talked with are happy with this blueprint and wouldn't want to begin to fund athletic scholarships. Other than maybe state schools that are currently D3 such as University of Wisconsin- Whitewater, I wouldn't think many would want to move to D2

Agree. There is a reason they chose D3.

The one D3 school that I've always wondered about is Thomas More College (Northern KY, suburban Cincinnati). Its extremely far removed from every member of its PA-based conference. TMC wouldn't have to join D2 to get closer competition - there are much closer OH and IN based D3 conferences. However, those D3 conferences are pretty established with schools that have 100+ years of rivalries. I don't think TMC necessarily fits their hoity-toity profile - which is likely why they are driving to PA for their conference games.

I'm not advocating for TMC, but when you look at a D3 map, they do stick out.

[UFSwimDad]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

I am curious as to how much it would cost a D3 school to move to D2? Also, is the cost for a NAIA school moving to D2 that big considering they already give scholarships?

[BlueBlood]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

I am curious as to how much it would cost a D3 school to move to D2? Also, is the cost for a NAIA school moving to D2 that big considering they already give scholarships?

You can mess around with this, its from the DOE, and lists athletic budgets:
https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/

Doing a basic search:
Thomas More's D3 budget is $2.1M
KWC's D2 budget is $3.7M, of which $1.8M is listed as "athletically-related student aid"
Findlay's D2 budget is $7.4M, of which $4.2M is listed as "athletically-related student aid"

That is what the "books" say. We all know that D3 (or Ivy or Patriot League) schools are good at finding "academic" money to help student athletes out. So the real difference isn't going to be the full amount shown above.

[UFSwimDad]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

That is what the "books" say. We all know that D3 (or Ivy or Patriot League) schools are good at finding "academic" money to help student athletes out. So the real difference isn't going to be the full amount shown above.

Ha! That's so true. I recall a D3 hockey powerhouse finding "leadership scholarships" so that they could bring in Iffy Canadian players!

[Knightmoves]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

You can mess around with this, its from the DOE, and lists athletic budgets:
https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/

Doing a basic search:
Thomas More's D3 budget is $2.1M
KWC's D2 budget is $3.7M, of which $1.8M is listed as "athletically-related student aid"
Findlay's D2 budget is $7.4M, of which $4.2M is listed as "athletically-related student aid"

That is what the "books" say. We all know that D3 (or Ivy or Patriot League) schools are good at finding "academic" money to help student athletes out. So the real difference isn't going to be the full amount shown above.

True. Additionally, the real cost of each of those athletic scholarships is really only the marginal cost of educating one more student, which is no where near the tuition charged by the book. In fact, if they did not count the scholarships in the athletic budget at all, it would be much closer to the real cost.

[UFSwimDad]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

Question for KWC fan. Would the addition of UINDY and Bellermine along with Tiffin and a WV school do enough for you to stay in the league? I keep circling back to it being very difficult to keep TVN. It just seems expansion will go East/ West more than south.