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  • #31
    Re: There's the B1G, and then there is everyone else

    Originally posted by Brandon View Post
    Weather and population trends are a factor too.
    If weather and population trends were drivers, the PAC12 would be number one among the Power 5 instead of last.

    In fact, the whole ranking would be inverted: PAC would be first, followed by the SEC, followed by the Big 12, followed by the ACC, followed by the Big 10.

    I do believe that the B1G wants a southern footprint in OU and Texas, but due to national brands and further enhancement of the media deals, not because of population trends.
    Last edited by Herb Street; 07-08-2018, 10:04 PM.

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    • #32
      Re: There's the B1G, and then there is everyone else

      Originally posted by Herb Street View Post
      If weather and population trends were drivers, the PAC12 would be number one among the Power 5 instead of last.

      In fact, the whole ranking would be inverted: PAC would be first, followed by the SEC, followed by the Big 12, followed by the ACC, followed by the Big 10.

      I do believe that the B1G wants a southern footprint in OU and Texas, but due to national brands and further enhancement of the media deals, not because of population trends.
      The Expanded media footprint would help revenue and a presence in an area with more fertile recruiting grounds can’t hurt.

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      • #33
        Re: There's the B1G, and then there is everyone else

        Originally posted by catatonic View Post
        The Expanded media footprint would help revenue and a presence in an area with more fertile recruiting grounds can’t hurt.
        When the B1G added UMD and RU, everyone saw the media / TV $ play. However, they also added some pretty nice recruiting territory to the conference footprint. Sure, its not FL/CA/TX/GA quality, but both MD and NJ are in that next tier, plus you get DC and strengthen your positioning for all kids north of PA/NJ and in VA.

        https://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...state-rankings

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        • #34
          Re: There's the B1G, and then there is everyone else

          Originally posted by catatonic View Post
          The Expanded media footprint would help revenue and a presence in an area with more fertile recruiting grounds can’t hurt.
          Agree. If the B1G gets a foothold in the south central with two flagship universities, the league changes considerably. Texas and OU are the most likely targets because both bring in the state of Texas, and both will be looking at their options a few years before the GOR expires. Neither of those schools is getting the piece of pie that they could elsewhere.

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          • #35
            Re: There's the B1G, and then there is everyone else

            Originally posted by Herb Street View Post
            The B1G won't add anyone further from the ACC. There's no one from the ACC that brings compelling added value to the conference in terms of media. If they wanted good football they would have gone after Florida State or Clemson. If they wanted good basketball, they would have poached NC or Duke. That's not what the B1G wanted. They wanted big media markets.

            They won't add any SEC schools. But they are holding two spots for OU and Texas you can count on it.
            Charlotte is the #22 media market and Raleigh-Durham is #24 in the nation. The Big Ten would take those eyeballs in a heartbeat and help spread the BTN south. Georgia Tech in Atlanta is the #10 TV market and the "capital" of SEC football, Delany would absolutely love to get a Big Ten presence there. And then there are the Florida markets (and recruits).

            I don't think it'll ever happen, but there are some ACC options the Big Ten would love to have.

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            • #36
              Re: There's the B1G, and then there is everyone else

              Originally posted by Herb Street View Post
              If weather and population trends were drivers, the PAC12 would be number one among the Power 5 instead of last.

              In fact, the whole ranking would be inverted: PAC would be first, followed by the SEC, followed by the Big 12, followed by the ACC, followed by the Big 10.

              I do believe that the B1G wants a southern footprint in OU and Texas, but due to national brands and further enhancement of the media deals, not because of population trends.
              I was talking about where athletes stay and go and how that applies to success, not the tv markets.

              The Big 10 used to dominate, but since the BCS and now the College Football Playoff, it hasn't has as much success as far as winning championships. I don't know if teams like Nebraska can turn it around to be what they once were.

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              • #37
                Re: There's the B1G, and then there is everyone else

                Since 2001 through 2017, only 4 National Champions have come from outside the southeastern states, and the conferences within the southeast also are now at the top at sending players to the NFL. The top 2 highest rated televised games ever, both involved teams from the southeast.
                So yes, weather may have something to do with the recent trend and overall success of Division 1 football.

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                • #38
                  Re: There's the B1G, and then there is everyone else

                  Originally posted by Brandon View Post
                  I was talking about where athletes stay and go and how that applies to success, not the tv markets.

                  The Big 10 used to dominate, but since the BCS and now the College Football Playoff, it hasn't has as much success as far as winning championships. I don't know if teams like Nebraska can turn it around to be what they once were.
                  I can't speak for Nebraska's program per se, but overall I think the conference with all of the dough will end up on top.

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                  • #39
                    Re: There's the B1G, and then there is everyone else

                    Originally posted by Eagle74 View Post
                    Since 2001 through 2017, only 4 National Champions have come from outside the southeastern states, and the conferences within the southeast also are now at the top at sending players to the NFL. The top 2 highest rated televised games ever, both involved teams from the southeast.
                    So yes, weather may have something to do with the recent trend and overall success of Division 1 football.
                    No argument there. I am only referring to very recent trending. It was only a few years ago that the Big 10 was a joke. As in they might only win one or two bowl games per season. Coaches were second rate, athletes were slow. This past bowl season, they went 7-1. It could be a one year deal, but I sense with the Big 10 scoring such an unprecedented media payout, the winds of change may be blowing.

                    I'm not a Big 10 sunshine pumper, just making some observations about the landscape of Power 5.

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                    • #40
                      Re: There's the B1G, and then there is everyone else

                      Originally posted by Herb Street View Post
                      I can't speak for Nebraska's program per se, but overall I think the conference with all of the dough will end up on top.
                      It will be interesting. I don't have a dog in the fight, I have just heard a lot about the general population heading to sunbelt states and kids wanting to play where it's warmer.

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                      • #41
                        Re: There's the B1G, and then there is everyone else

                        Originally posted by Herb Street View Post
                        Agree. If the B1G gets a foothold in the south central with two flagship universities, the league changes considerably. Texas and OU are the most likely targets because both bring in the state of Texas, and both will be looking at their options a few years before the GOR expires. Neither of those schools is getting the piece of pie that they could elsewhere.
                        Yeah, but do you honestly think that the State of Oklahoma would let the Sooners jump to the Big Ten without the Cowboys tagging along, or at least working out a deal where the Pokes get at least an SEC invite and they keep the Rivalry game? Too many politicians would have their hands in on that one, and that's an issue that would get bipartisan support in Oklahoma. Too many OSU fans there that would madder than hell if they got stuck into a new Mountain West if the Big 12 falls apart.

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                        • #42
                          Re: There's the B1G, and then there is everyone else

                          I found this on another site. It seems totally crazy to me because the BIG is the big money maker. I don't see it splitting up like this guy does. But then again, I just drink chocolate milk.

                          "The focus of future conference expansion has primarily been on the BIG XII, either expanding from beyond the P5 and/or getting picked apart by expansion from the o/P5(P4) conferences. I look for the 3 power conferences in warm areas to pull from both BIGs. Ohio St., Penn St and Texas will be the biggest targets due to the talent pools for FB. Michigan and Oklahoma would be next, with Michigan St, Texas Tech and Oklahoma St coming in a package.

                          The ACC could experience a few scenarios:
                          W/Ohio St. only, the conference moves to 16 total. I think Pitt would block Penn St from joining and the SEC is the more likely destination for the NL's anyway.

                          The Michigan schools joining and ND remaining independent for FB but increasing the # of ACC games to schedule each year, would allow room for USC, Stanford, Navy on a schedule with so many traditional ND rivals now in the ACC. BB is secondary but how about that conference!?

                          Most feel that the Texas and possibly Oklahoma schools are destined for the PAC, but if they went with the BIG schools instead, the ACC could still get Texas creating the same situation mentioned above w/Ohio St.; w/Texas Tech also, the same as mentioned with both Michigan schools {Still quite a BB conference}.
                          Having 17 teams for no FB sports could be worked out as would the quad/pod system for FB.

                          PG16"

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                          • #43
                            Re: There's the B1G, and then there is everyone else

                            Originally posted by laker View Post
                            I found this on another site. It seems totally crazy to me because the BIG is the big money maker. I don't see it splitting up like this guy does. But then again, I just drink chocolate milk.
                            You're right, it seems out there.

                            When Rutgers and Maryland were announced as the newest members a few years ago, everyone only talked about the athletic conference- especially in comparison to the SEC. But I kept reminding everyone (who would care to listen) that unlike other conferences, the B1G is also an academic association. I argued that as far as Rutgers was concerned, an affiliation with B1G schools was worth more (in the long term) than whatever money they earn on the athletic side. It's understandable since the value of the conference's media contract will get more news than all the research opportunities (and dollars that come it). I think AAU membership means a lot to the schools and admitting a non AAU member will probably generate quite a bit of debate and soul searching. Notre Dame is the exception because there are so few D1 hockey programs (Johns Hopkins is an AAU member).

                            However, I do admit that further consolidation in D1 conferences is a real possibility, and likely at the expense of the Big XII. I just don't think the B1G will lead the charge to 16 until the SEC/ACC/PAC12 gets the ball rolling. No school will want to get a smaller share of the revenues so any expansion candidate will have to wait to get a full share just as Nebraska did and Maryland/Rutgers are doing now. Rutgers gets a smaller share than Maryland because Rutgers' AAC payout was much smaller than Maryland's ACC payout. Texas and OU would likely get a "partial" share closer to what Maryland is getting, so that has to be a huge consideration. I don't know if the current media contract pays more if the conference expands.

                            Now no one has talked about how you run a 16 school conference. We're talking about a geographic footprint that spans the Midwest and half the Northeast. Texas and OU expands that footprint considerably and fragments it as well. Expanded travel will put more pressure on budgets, so geography will be an issue. I can see an expansion to 16 giving the two 8 team divisions greater scheduling coherence/autonomy which means fewer games with the other division. Yes, historical rivalries take a hit. At that point, you could argue for expansion to 18 and go with 3 divisions of 6. It makes some sense because you could emphasize the smaller division rivalries (smaller geographic footprint) and minimize the travel to the other divisions.

                            My point is that potential revenue isn't the only consideration to take into account. I'm sure the sixteen B1G presidents and athletic directors look at it that way and have way more data at their disposal than anyone of us on this board. Regardless of the school and their location, there's a cost to expansion. Expansion would have to bring in significantly more dollars than what the B1G brings in now and in the short term. Also, I would not put less value on AAU membership. Any candidate who doesn't have it would have to bring something to the conference academically.

                            Anyway, this has been a good topic for discussion- plenty of good (and interesting) points on all sides.

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                            • #44
                              Re: There's the B1G, and then there is everyone else

                              Originally posted by catatonic View Post
                              With all that money, you’d think they would figure out a way to win more often.
                              They haven't gotten the knack of cheating down like the SEC.

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                              • #45
                                Re: There's the B1G, and then there is everyone else

                                Actually...Texas and Oklahoma wouldn't be bad additions to the BIG. They would slot in nicely in the West division and Purdue would slide over to the East.

                                East
                                Penn State
                                Maryland
                                The State University of New Jersey ( Opps I mean Rutgers)
                                The Overrated State University
                                Meatchicken
                                Meatchicken State
                                Indiana
                                Purdue

                                West
                                Wisconsin
                                Minnesota
                                Northwestern
                                Illinois
                                Nebraska
                                Iowa
                                Oklahoma
                                Texas

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