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OT: 2020 MLB Season

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  • #61
    Originally posted by KleShreen View Post

    As Wildcat mentioned, Mo Rivera was the first and only unanimous pick last year or the year before.

    I don't understand why anyone cares if it is unanimous or not. He's in. Griffey was left off of three ballots when he got inducted and he was twice the player Jeter was. Jeter was a compiler who wasn't great at anything besides playing in the playoffs. And I don't really like the "rings" argument in baseball. Baseball is the most team-oriented sport we have. You can't will your team to the finals like a quarterback or basketball player. You are one guy out of 10 and there's nothing you can do individually to will your team to a win, at least not as a hitter. So I hate the rings argument.
    I would argue that baseball is the least team oriented sport. Each play has to start withe just two people before any action happens. It is the ultimate mano y mano team sport.

    A QB is only one of 11 or 22 people on a team. Football is very team oriented.

    Happy that Walker got in. Jeter should be in, but he was really a great hitter and a poor shortstop. The most uttered phrase in a Yankees broadcast was "ground ball, up the middle, past a diving Derek Jeter".

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Runnin' Cat View Post

      I would argue that baseball is the least team oriented sport. Each play has to start withe just two people before any action happens. It is the ultimate mano y mano team sport.

      A QB is only one of 11 or 22 people on a team. Football is very team oriented.

      Happy that Walker got in. Jeter should be in, but he was really a great hitter and a poor shortstop. The most uttered phrase in a Yankees broadcast was "ground ball, up the middle, past a diving Derek Jeter".
      It's a dichotomy - it is very much a one-on-one game, more so than most other sports because it's one hitter against one pitcher. But even the most dominant hitter only gets one turn at the plate out of nine. A dominant pitcher has more of a chance to control the game, but unless he's so dominant he doesn't allow a ball to be hit in the field of play, his success is very dependent on his fielders and his offense (which is why wins is a pretty meaningless pitching stat). The success of a Tom Brady or a Michael Jordan is also dependent on others, of course, so the rings argument doesn't really apply in those sports either imo.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by GrifFan View Post

        It's a dichotomy - it is very much a one-on-one game, more so than most other sports because it's one hitter against one pitcher. But even the most dominant hitter only gets one turn at the plate out of nine. A dominant pitcher has more of a chance to control the game, but unless he's so dominant he doesn't allow a ball to be hit in the field of play, his success is very dependent on his fielders and his offense (which is why wins is a pretty meaningless pitching stat). The success of a Tom Brady or a Michael Jordan is also dependent on others, of course, so the rings argument doesn't really apply in those sports either imo.
        Baseball was once described to me as the ultimate game of collection of individual performances.

        When the Mariners won 116 games in 2001, there defense was impossibly good. They turned something like 76% of balls in play into outs. It was an amazing stat and because the M's had a "pitch to contact" pitching staff, it held up incredibly well.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Runnin' Cat View Post

          I would argue that baseball is the least team oriented sport. Each play has to start withe just two people before any action happens. It is the ultimate mano y mano team sport.

          A QB is only one of 11 or 22 people on a team. Football is very team oriented.

          Happy that Walker got in. Jeter should be in, but he was really a great hitter and a poor shortstop. The most uttered phrase in a Yankees broadcast was "ground ball, up the middle, past a diving Derek Jeter".
          The QB is involved on virtually every single offensive play, and frequently calls the plays the rest of the offense runs. A great QB can carry a bad team deep in to the playoffs, and happens quite frequently. Tom Brady has led so many lesser-talented Patriots teams to Super Bowls, and the same great QB's are always in the mix for the Super Bowl each year no matter who their teammates are. Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc.

          The world's best hitter usually only gets 3-4 plate appearances in a game out of 30+. He can hit a home run every single time up, but still only score one run each time if he isn't getting any help from his teammates. The other hitters need to get on base before him, or knock him in afterwards, for him to have a significant impact on the game. I just don't think any pitcher who faced both Derek Jeter and Ken Griffey Jr. would say that they were more scared to face Jeter than Griffey. Jeter wasn't even in the top half of feared hitters on his own World Series teams, most years. He was essentially a powerless hitter who had a few clutch base hits in the playoffs, and sub-par defense.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by KleShreen View Post

            The QB is involved on virtually every single offensive play, and frequently calls the plays the rest of the offense runs. A great QB can carry a bad team deep in to the playoffs, and happens quite frequently. Tom Brady has led so many lesser-talented Patriots teams to Super Bowls, and the same great QB's are always in the mix for the Super Bowl each year no matter who their teammates are. Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc.

            The world's best hitter usually only gets 3-4 plate appearances in a game out of 30+. He can hit a home run every single time up, but still only score one run each time if he isn't getting any help from his teammates. The other hitters need to get on base before him, or knock him in afterwards, for him to have a significant impact on the game. I just don't think any pitcher who faced both Derek Jeter and Ken Griffey Jr. would say that they were more scared to face Jeter than Griffey. Jeter wasn't even in the top half of feared hitters on his own World Series teams, most years. He was essentially a powerless hitter who had a few clutch base hits in the playoffs, and sub-par defense.
            What you describe as "help" is just a collection of individual efforts. That is not teamwork.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Runnin' Cat View Post

              What you describe as "help" is just a collection of individual efforts. That is not teamwork.
              Any movement in a team sport environment can be categorized as a collection of individual efforts.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Runnin' Cat View Post

                What you describe as "help" is just a collection of individual efforts. That is not teamwork.
                You're talking about process, Kle is talking about results.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Runnin' Cat View Post

                  What you describe as "help" is just a collection of individual efforts. That is not teamwork.
                  I mean...until hitters can start just using ghost runners and driving themselves in constantly....it is the most team game we have of the four major sports.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by KleShreen View Post

                    I mean...until hitters can start just using ghost runners and driving themselves in constantly....it is the most team game we have of the four major sports.
                    Not really. Hitter can get on base, steal their way home if they really wanted to try.

                    Football is the most "team" game, IMO. 11 v 11, everyone has a job to do each play and almost always, all 11 players on each side matter each play.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      http://signstealingscandal.com/

                      Some Astro fan did a lot of work, as a penance, maybe?

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Twincitiesmav View Post
                        In my mind, this is way worse than spygate or deflategate. Had this happened at the NCAA level, the team would’ve gotten the death penalty.
                        I would not be so sure. Nothing worse than what happened at Penn State and what happened there?

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by IronOre View Post
                          http://signstealingscandal.com/

                          Some Astro fan did a lot of work, as a penance, maybe?

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by GrifFan View Post
                            If you're trying to establish yourself as a pitcher and get shelled in your first appearance, you won't get another one. The Astros ended careers with this scheme.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Mk63NuclearBomb View Post

                              If you're trying to establish yourself as a pitcher and get shelled in your first appearance, you won't get another one. The Astros ended careers with this scheme.
                              Yeah. This guy probably isn't the best example - he was getting shelled for a month or two before this game too. But maybe the last straw comes a little later for him if the Astros don't know what's coming on that day.

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