Video: Should Division II Overhaul the Playoff System? - with Mike Racy

[IUPNation]

For me that's the hard part.. has to be some consideration for travel obviously, and pairings the first couple rounds would not be as simple as straight up seeds, just as they aren't in FCS. In FCS, teams bid for the right to host games. It's not the only consideration, as supposedly North Dakota out bid a number of teams that hosted this year and still didn't get a home game, but the brackets certainly aren't completely based on seed. Imagine throwing that complexity into this conversation!!

Oh so...you mean home games are given out on who has more money and not merit in the perfect FCS format?

[IUPNation]

Thank you for your honesty, at least. Sadly, I suspect we will probably never come to any form of agreement on this.

Nope...they are all hung up on this FCS Format and that seems to be the only correct answer.

[IUPNation]

You cannot simply objectively look at the results from the playoffs the last several years and not see a difference. There is being and advocate, and then there is being a leach. Every region shouldn't be guaranteed to be the final 2 of the final 8 teams playing. An effort should be made to get the best 8 teams, regardless of region, conference to be the last 8 teams playing.

"The Best 8 Teams Every Year"

Grand Valley
Ferris State
Pittsburg State
Northwest MO
West Florida
Valdosta State
Delta State
*Whoever Is Deemed Worthy To Bask In Their Presence

If you guys are already deciding who the best 8 teams are before the playoffs begin so you can engineer it so they all meet up...why are we bothering with the rest of the teams and wasting their time?

Just pick the same teams every year for the playoffs because of who they are and just have at it. I try to discuss properly and all I keep getting in return are replies that keep moving the goal line.

[Brandon]

Making a lot of assumptions...

I went back to the MOV-based SOS spreadsheet and tried to estimate expected win totals for the 13th-best non-champion against each team's schedule, then compared it to actual results. (Of course it doesn't work well for silos, but nothing does...)

Thanks. I was interested in the methodology.

[Brandon]

Thank you for your honesty, at least. Sadly, I suspect we will probably never come to any form of agreement on this.

I think that's the case. I believe you've been discussing this in good faith the entire time and I really respect that. We simply disagree.

[Inkblot]

How did you come up with this list?

Making a lot of assumptions...

I went back to the MOV-based SOS spreadsheet and tried to estimate expected win totals for the 13th-best non-champion against each team's schedule, then compared it to actual results. (Of course it doesn't work well for silos, but nothing does...)

[WBChargerDad]

In my opinion, this is not an improvement. Plus, there are more flights than either really happened or theoretically happened in the FCS format.

For me that's the hard part.. has to be some consideration for travel obviously, and pairings the first couple rounds would not be as simple as straight up seeds, just as they aren't in FCS. In FCS, teams bid for the right to host games. It's not the only consideration, as supposedly North Dakota out bid a number of teams that hosted this year and still didn't get a home game, but the brackets certainly aren't completely based on seed. Imagine throwing that complexity into this conversation!!

[EastStroud13]

In my opinion, this is not an improvement. Plus, there are more flights than either really happened or theoretically happened in the FCS format.

Thank you for your honesty, at least. Sadly, I suspect we will probably never come to any form of agreement on this.

[WBChargerDad]

The Northern Sun has produced two national champions and two other runners-up since 2008. The PSAC hasn't produced either since 2000. They've shown they're capable of beating the best of the best.

Since 2000, I believe there have been 5 national champs outside of SR3 or SR4, and 4 of them have Valdosta State. I think every effort should be made to put the top 28 teams in the playoffs. No system will be perfect, but I think it can be better. Then, I think the conversation should change to what can be done, if anything, to help elevate the level of play in areas where it's a little behind so that teams in what is now an SR that maybe went from 7 spots down to 5 earned their way back to 7 or 8 spots. That would be great for D2 football IMO.

[Brandon]

Here's my stab at what I think a realistic immediate step would be. Playoff selection is the exact same as it currently is. Seed teams 1-8, with each SR getting at least 1 seed. Seeded teams placed in SR quadrants as close as is applicable. Any unseeded teams in their SR's top 4 were kept in their SR, and unseeded teams outside their SR's top 4 were fluid and could be moved to other SR's.

It's not perfect. I think there's room to improve the distribution of teams across the SR3 and SR4 quadrants if more teams could be flexed out of region (for example, NWMSU swapping in for Bemidji gets rid of a conference rematch). But as a first step, I think it represents an improvement for the "competitiveness" crowd without completely alienating the "regionality" crowd. Because, clearly, no solution is going to completely please everyone.

Sorry, not sure why the image is so blurry... something about the upload I guess.

In my opinion, this is not an improvement. Plus, there are more flights than either really happened or theoretically happened in the FCS format.

[WBChargerDad]

I think this argument has met the end point. Some are arguing what the ruling might ultimately be politically speaking and you seem to be arguing for what you believe to be the only way it should be. I agree with you mostly. Region 1 hasn't earned 25% of the entire bracket, but I think some are underselling that the entirety of the region is garbage. I am definitely Biased and I do believe that Region 1 wouldn't just lose every single playoff game they played if paired outside their "region."

It's been beat to hell, but there is a top 4-6 teams and then everyone else, IMO, is on pretty similar footing after that.

They wouldn't lose every single game. I don't think anyone is saying teams from SR1 don't deserve to be in the playoffs at all. What I have tried to argue is that no region deserves to be guaranteed 7 spots, and guaranteed to have a team in the semi finals.

[KleShreen]

Then demand they switch regions instead of coming for the Northeast. Why shouldn’t YOUR conference be put in with one of them. Aren’t you just having it easy in Region 4. The Northern Sun is SILO and doesn’t even play a conference championship game when it could but somehow our region is the problem?

The Northern Sun has produced two national champions and two other runners-up since 2008. The PSAC hasn't produced either since 2000. They've shown they're capable of beating the best of the best.

[WBChargerDad]

While a whole conference is slower to shift, a single team can definitely do so in a year. It is important that there is still an opportunity for that to happen, and a way to make sure it is rewarded.

Yea, and I wasn't meaning to imply different than that.

[Brandon]

I'm fiddling with a wins-above-bubble type of system... this is what I got for 13 at-large spots (assuming Wayne State gets the NSIC auto bid):

1. Ferris State
2. West Florida
3. Davenport
4. Minnesota State
5. Shepherd
6. Limestone
7. Wingate
8. West Georgia
9. Virginia Union
10. Northwest Missouri State
11. Saginaw Valley State
12. Harding
13. Truman

How did you come up with this list?

[Brandon]

I do believe that Region 1 wouldn't just lose every single playoff game they played if paired outside their "region."

I agree with this as well.