Video: Should Division II Overhaul the Playoff System? - with Mike Racy

[KleShreen]

We can wish and dream all we want. But we also have to deal with reality. And the reality is that the NCAA is not going to pay for travel for games all across the country. I'm not saying that it has to be strict regionalization, but some form of regionals based on geography is likely not ending any time soon. Also, how do we even know for sure who the best four teams are before the playoffs begin? Sure, you can likely pick out a favorite or two, but it can get cloudy after that.

And you do have to reward regular season performance on some level. If a team looks like the third best team but lost two games, should they be rewarded like the third best team? It's foolish to think that we can know for sure. I have never seen a season when I thought, "These are definitely the four best teams." Usually, there isn't a huge gap between teams 3-7 or so. You're never going to get it it perfect. But you can reform it to make it more feasible.

I guess I disagree with your statement on not being able to differentiate who the best teams are. I think, if you are a person who watches games from all around the country, it becomes fairly easy to see the tier levels that play out each season. The problem is that in D2, there's not many people doing that. You can probably count those people on two hands. Given the nature of D2 athletics, as you've mentioned, it's extremely regional and people tend to not pay attention outside of their own school, even less outside of their own conference, even less outside of their own region. By the time you jump through those barriers, you're left with a very small number of people. There's plenty of people who can do this in FBS, which is why we don't get undefeated Western Michigan in the 4-team playoff. Everyone with eyeballs and who has watched three high-level college football games knows they're not one of the four best teams. We don't have that luxury in D2.

Of course, this runs in to another issue, which is that even if D2 football were to get rid of the regionalization, the people in charge tend to not be qualified enough to accurately seed a playoff that would put teams in the best situation to end up with the best teams at the end. The people on the regional committees aren't watching anyone from outside their own region. Hell, they're probably not watching teams from outside their own conference. You'd be surprised how many coaches of colleges at all levels who wouldn't even be able to tell you who the top teams outside of their own conference and region are. A decade of interacting with coaches at multiple different schools, conferences, and regions, has given me that anecdotal information.

So where does that leave us with trying to solve this problem? I don't know. That's above my pay grade. I have some suggestions, but no silver bullets. I also think, and I'm sorry because this is going to specifically target your affiliation, that we have enough of a sample size where we can safely say that this is not a D2 problem. This is an SR1 problem. It's been 50 years of current SR1 schools never having won a national title, and a very limited amount of times actually getting to the national title game. Out of the current D2 schools who have won national titles, it is 15 from SR3, 7 from SR2 (counting Mississippi College), 3 from SR4, and 0 from SR1. Among title game appearances from current D2 schools, it is 21 for SR3, 16 for SR2 (counting Mississippi College), 8 from SR4, 6 from SR1, but only one of those from SR1 has been since the turn of the century. We've shared plenty of reasons for why this is. There's a pretty clear way to attempt to fix it, but nobody within the region seems to want to take that step, so we're here discussing the entire region's feasibility on a national level.

You are correct. This issue is never going to be fixed, because every other D2 sport is the same way. Last year in women's basketball, 3 of the top 6 teams in the final top 25 of the regular season were in one region. They had to go through each other just to advance to the elite eight, since basketball uses eight regions instead of four. In baseball, the south region usually has 10 teams in it that are better than virtually every other team in every other region, but only one of them can be in the final eight. It's how D2 wants to operate. So you are correct. This is never going to change. D2 as a whole is a participation ribbon level of college athletics for the most part. I'm just of the belief that in your most visible sport, in the most visible competitions, it makes D2 look bad for people who might only tune in to one or two D2 football games a year in the national championship or semifinal turn it on and see that there's frequently teams playing in those games who are nowhere close to being on the same level as the others. I know that you and some other SR1 people here have pointed out how it's "not fair" (or something to that effect) for the region to not be included as a competitor for the national title. But that argument can turn around and be made for the schools and student-athletes who have committed the resources to being competitive on a national level and are all cannibalizing each other each season. They're losing out on opportunities of success so schools who aren't making the same kind of commitment have a chance, instead.

[Ram Tough]

I want to add one more thing. Part of the argument in the video is how the National Championship game played out. And that part of the argument is quite frankly ridiculous. In 2021, Ferris and Valdosta were considered the two best teams going into the title game. And this past year, not a soul thought that Mines was undeserving. Almost everyone felt like Ferris was a Top 2 team. I'm sure that FBS would've liked a better title game this past year as well.

[Ram Tough]

We're just asking for a format which allows for the two best teams in any given year to be able to face each other in the national championship, and the four best teams in any given year to be able to face each other in the semifinals. Whether all four of those teams are from the same conference, or one from each region. Either way.

We can wish and dream all we want. But we also have to deal with reality. And the reality is that the NCAA is not going to pay for travel for games all across the country. I'm not saying that it has to be strict regionalization, but some form of regionals based on geography is likely not ending any time soon. Also, how do we even know for sure who the best four teams are before the playoffs begin? Sure, you can likely pick out a favorite or two, but it can get cloudy after that.

And you do have to reward regular season performance on some level. If a team looks like the third best team but lost two games, should they be rewarded like the third best team? It's foolish to think that we can know for sure. I have never seen a season when I thought, "These are definitely the four best teams." Usually, there isn't a huge gap between teams 3-7 or so. You're never going to get it it perfect. But you can reform it to make it more feasible.

[KleShreen]

I am not against playoff reform, but I also think that there is a bit of an overreaction here and the last two seasons are being used to justify it. In 2021 no one was beating Ferris. We can all talk about how we can make the product look better, but there is no helping a team being that much better than everyone else. This past year, everyone thought that Mines was a Top 5 team. Honestly, they probably were. But they got waxed in the title game. This year, the two best teams were in the GLIAC. Some years, that wouldn't be the case. Was the GSC weak when Valdosta was hammered in 2021 or UNA was soundly beaten by NWMSU in 2016? Of course not.

Realistically, the D2 football landscape revolves around the MIAA, GLIAC and GSC. Then, there's a second tier of conferences that can possibly break through in any given year with the NSIC, LSC and RMAC. After that, there is everyone else. Realistically, do you see a champion coming out of any other conference outside of a lightning in a bottle scenario? Shoot, the same can almost be said of the RMAC and LSC as well.

So, what's the best solution? Do we take away regions? In a perfect world, we would. However, the NCAA is not going to add that extra travel expense. At best, what we can hope for is basing the brackets around geography based on the teams selected. And even then, it doesn't guarantee that you're going to have the best two teams meet in the title game. Shoot, even if they want to move the GLIAC back into SR1, I am okay with that. Just be aware that will likely mean current conference in SR1 will likely be shipped into a different region. And then, a conference from that region will likely move somewhere else. We all remember when SR2 had so few teams in it until the CIAA was moved back.

My point is that we can reform, but we also don't know what the landscape of D2 will look like in 5 or 10 years.

We're just asking for a format which allows for the two best teams in any given year to be able to face each other in the national championship, and the four best teams in any given year to be able to face each other in the semifinals. Whether all four of those teams are from the same conference, or one from each region. Either way.

[Ram Tough]

I am not against playoff reform, but I also think that there is a bit of an overreaction here and the last two seasons are being used to justify it. In 2021 no one was beating Ferris. We can all talk about how we can make the product look better, but there is no helping a team being that much better than everyone else. This past year, everyone thought that Mines was a Top 5 team. Honestly, they probably were. But they got waxed in the title game. This year, the two best teams were in the GLIAC. Some years, that wouldn't be the case. Was the GSC weak when Valdosta was hammered in 2021 or UNA was soundly beaten by NWMSU in 2016? Of course not.

Realistically, the D2 football landscape revolves around the MIAA, GLIAC and GSC. Then, there's a second tier of conferences that can possibly break through in any given year with the NSIC, LSC and RMAC. After that, there is everyone else. Realistically, do you see a champion coming out of any other conference outside of a lightning in a bottle scenario? Shoot, the same can almost be said of the RMAC and LSC as well.

So, what's the best solution? Do we take away regions? In a perfect world, we would. However, the NCAA is not going to add that extra travel expense. At best, what we can hope for is basing the brackets around geography based on the teams selected. And even then, it doesn't guarantee that you're going to have the best two teams meet in the title game. Shoot, even if they want to move the GLIAC back into SR1, I am okay with that. Just be aware that will likely mean current conference in SR1 will likely be shipped into a different region. And then, a conference from that region will likely move somewhere else. We all remember when SR2 had so few teams in it until the CIAA was moved back.

My point is that we can reform, but we also don't know what the landscape of D2 will look like in 5 or 10 years.

[Brandon]

I disagree with Brandon that it would not be interesting as he and Witt would be providing an alternative for the interviewee to argue against.

There have been a lot of stories over the years and a lot of comments over the years regarding what can't be done. This was the first time I can remember that a person in a position of prominence has proposed that something new. That's why it's interesting. That's why the same ole same ole is not, unless someone comes out with strong opposition to Mike's suggestions.

[Thunder]

So I thought to myself "Hey I wonder if anything else has been posted on that thread about changing the playoffs, let's check." 19 pages! Wow, this could be some interesting Saturday morning reading. Now I feel like Andy Dufrane having crawled through a river of ****-smelling foulness I couldn't have possibly imagined. I couldn't read it all and skipped quite a few posts, but here are a few thoughts I have:

1) NCAA D2 does not have many opportunities to shine on even a small national stage. The D2 football national championship (and I would argue the semifinals could get there) and the basketball Elite 8. I think it would be in the best interest of all D2 schools to make those games as entertaining and competitive as possible. Regionalization does not make that possible. For example if the 2021 Regional Final between Northwest Missouri St and Northern State had been the National Championship game, it would have been incredible for D2 basketball.

2) I think Witt proved in this interview that you can rethink the bracketing without a major increase in travel. Travel is a bigger problem in football with much larger traveling parties. I don't think flights for teams in basketball should be a conversation ender when attempting to get more evenly distributed region tournaments.

3) I actually would like to see an interview from Brandon and Witt with a conference commissioner opposing these changes. I disagree with Brandon that it would not be interesting as he and Witt would be providing an alternative for the interviewee to argue against. Now, finding someone willing to do that interview might be difficult and doing that interview without it just turning into an argument might be even more difficult.

[IUPNation]

In the specific context of SR1, NAIA is a complete non-entity here. I don't know what it'd take for there to be a shift from NCAA to NAIA but it'd have to be significant.

The Pee Sack was once in the NAIA. The voted in 1980 to join D2. Shippensburg (1981), Bloomsburg (1985) and IUP (1987), made the D2 playoffs before today’s elite did…

[Ram Tough]

In the specific context of SR1, NAIA is a complete non-entity here. I don't know what it'd take for there to be a shift from NCAA to NAIA but it'd have to be significant.

The last huge NAIA presence in the region was the WVIAC before the whole conference moved to NCAA Division II in 1994. That essentially took away the NAIA footprint for most of the area. In fact WVU Tech transitioned to the NAIA and has tried to transition back ever since because they are drowning in travel expenses they never had before.

[EastStroud13]

I don't understand why a school would belong to D2, but fund at an naia level? Does naia not offer as many sports, do they belong because there are no naia schools close that they can play, or is it more of a prestige thing?

In the specific context of SR1, NAIA is a complete non-entity here. I don't know what it'd take for there to be a shift from NCAA to NAIA but it'd have to be significant.

[boatcapt]

Schools choose, but will have to live up to the standards in each division

Who decides the standards?

[KleShreen]

Maybe we should have Two Divisions in D2 the D2-C division where Schools want to be Competitive and D2-DEI for schools who want Diversity Equity and Inclusion...wouldn't that make everyone happy? :)

Go to the OT if you want to make dumb statements.

[libertybearcat]

And who will determine who will be in what "Division?"

Schools choose, but will have to live up to the standards in each division

[boatcapt]

Maybe we should have Two Divisions in D2 the D2-C division where Schools want to be Competitive and D2-DEI for schools who want Diversity Equity and Inclusion...wouldn't that make everyone happy? :)

And who will determine who will be in what "Division?"

[IUPNation]

I don't understand why a school would belong to D2, but fund at an naia level? Does naia not offer as many sports, do they belong because there are no naia schools close that they can play, or is it more of a prestige thing?

Because they might be good in other sports at this level they can fund.

IUP prioritizes Foosball and both basketball programs. I am told our mens basketball is fully funded. We are 2/3 funded for foosball..