Time to Leave the PSAC?

[Fightingscot82]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

How many road games have you been to? You ever been to a game at Lock Haven or Millersville? If there is community engagement ... it's real hard to see -- put it that way. I get what you're saying in premise but that's far from what is actually happening in these places.

Putting a bad D3 team on the field yearly is not encouraging alumni donations.

Alright now you're just being hyperbolic. Its not like they're trying to compete without scholarships. Millersville has been unsuccessful in hiring a coach who is successful. We've been fooled before on who they've hired. Unfortunately the success hasn't happened. With Lock Haven its been a similar fate but with greater coaching turnover. Both schools have paid in the top 50% of head coach salaries and it still hasn't resulted in success.

I've been to PSAC road games at Cal, Clarion, ESU, IUP, Lock Haven, and Slippery Rock. A couple games elsewhere. Hard to say there isn't community engagement when we don't really know who is in the stands besides the band. Parents? Staff? Alumni? Some schmuck who lives across the street? Both Lock Haven and Millersville averaged a little over 1,600 per home game last season. IUP averaged under 2,400. Combine all four crowds and you're still under what Slippery Rock averaged. This season Millersville is averaging almost double last season - 3,250 and just 200 a game under IUP. Who cares?

[Tony33]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

Alright now you're just being hyperbolic. Its not like they're trying to compete without scholarships. Millersville has been unsuccessful in hiring a coach who is successful. We've been fooled before on who they've hired. Unfortunately the success hasn't happened. With Lock Haven its been a similar fate but with greater coaching turnover. Both schools have paid in the top 50% of head coach salaries and it still hasn't resulted in success.

I've been to PSAC road games at Cal, Clarion, ESU, IUP, Lock Haven, and Slippery Rock. A couple games elsewhere. Hard to say there isn't community engagement when we don't really know who is in the stands besides the band. Parents? Staff? Alumni? Some schmuck who lives across the street? Both Lock Haven and Millersville averaged a little over 1,600 per home game last season. IUP averaged under 2,400. Combine all four crowds and you're still under what Slippery Rock averaged. This season Millersville is averaging almost double last season - 3,250 and just 200 a game under IUP. Who cares?

Good point, Who cares. I care because if you are pulling large crowds that means you are doing something correct. Football is meant to bring people together and have fun. If you can get your community out to the games it increases your college experience and helps the program stay strong. Small towns need football, it just American that way.

[jrshooter]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

I don't know, Tony. Looking at it from the Ship side, I think we're doing just fine for game-day atmosphere, and I know the town doesn't much care. They bring out their 4,500 the night before for the high school. It's an insular experience at SU.

[Tony33]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

I don't know, Tony. Looking at it from the Ship side, I think we're doing just fine for game-day atmosphere, and I know the town doesn't much care. They bring out their 4,500 the night before for the high school. It's an insular experience at SU.

I'm trying to get the Hurst numbers up, but everyone seems to like sitting at home. However our crowds are beginning to grow, everyone wants and likes a winner or a fighter that will go the distance. Looking forward to seeing SRU fan base, if they are anything like IUP fans, it will be a very good game without the game.

[jrshooter]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

I'm trying to get the Hurst numbers up, but everyone seems to like sitting at home. However our crowds are beginning to grow, everyone wants and likes a winner or a fighter that will go the distance. Looking forward to seeing SRU fan base, if they are anything like IUP fans, it will be a very good game without the game.

I'd suggest that while it's great for all the games to be live-streamed, it probably takes some toll on the gate.

[Tony33]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

I'd suggest that while it's great for all the games to be live-streamed, it probably takes some toll on the gate.

I just love watching live football. I can focus on the match-ups I see happening on the line and the DBs and Receivers. The refs can hear you better when they blow a call and so far I have not seen a game when there have not been 3 or 4 bad calls. A few horrible calls as well.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

Alright now you're just being hyperbolic. Its not like they're trying to compete without scholarships. Millersville has been unsuccessful in hiring a coach who is successful. We've been fooled before on who they've hired. Unfortunately the success hasn't happened. With Lock Haven its been a similar fate but with greater coaching turnover. Both schools have paid in the top 50% of head coach salaries and it still hasn't resulted in success.

I've been to PSAC road games at Cal, Clarion, ESU, IUP, Lock Haven, and Slippery Rock. A couple games elsewhere. Hard to say there isn't community engagement when we don't really know who is in the stands besides the band. Parents? Staff? Alumni? Some schmuck who lives across the street? Both Lock Haven and Millersville averaged a little over 1,600 per home game last season. IUP averaged under 2,400. Combine all four crowds and you're still under what Slippery Rock averaged. This season Millersville is averaging almost double last season - 3,250 and just 200 a game under IUP. Who cares?

You're twisting this in to a famous FS82 spin. I replied to your original post.

Perhaps they just have the worst luck in the world hiring coaches then -- 40 years' worth. Those coaches weren't all losers when they got hired. They all left losers (or at the most distant taste of success). Nobody could win there. Pay them in the top 99% of D2 coaches and it wouldn't make a difference. Why is that? Urban Meyer couldn't win there with the current culture and support provided.

You initially stated:

For almost every other school football is not just an enrollment driver but a community engagement strategy, a way to get news media mentions, a student programming effort, and a way to encourage alumni donations

* I've been to at least 7 games at Lock Haven. If that is what is defined as community engagement ... OK. It's more like an IUP home game.
* News media mentions: State School U 70 Lock Haven 7 ... mission accomplished
* Student programming effort ... perhaps
* A way to encourage alumni donations - Being that no east school can allegedly crack 5 scholarships ... they better start doing WAY better encouraging those alumni donations.


I sure hope they are taking the money from the Duquesne beatdown and the inevitable massacre this Saturday in Texas and investing it in to the football program. The bean-counters aren't the ones taking the beatings for this blood money.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

I just love watching live football. I can focus on the match-ups I see happening on the line and the DBs and Receivers. The refs can hear you better when they blow a call and so far I have not seen a game when there have not been 3 or 4 bad calls. A few horrible calls as well.

Couldn't agree more. The live feeds are a last resort. Nothing beats seeing it live. You miss so much on the web feeds -- not to mention all the freezing screens, etc.

I will say the live feeds are way better now than they were just a few years back. But there's always an issue. Lock Haven forgets to turn it on until halftime. No sound. Freezes constantly. Home announcers mispronouncing their schools players' names. Gannon basketball on Snapchat.

It's better than nothing.

[Fightingscot82]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

I don't know, Tony. Looking at it from the Ship side, I think we're doing just fine for game-day atmosphere, and I know the town doesn't much care. They bring out their 4,500 the night before for the high school. It's an insular experience at SU.

I think its a hard sell for the casual community member. With high school football, especially smaller community high schools, you usually know the players. "Hey did you hear Ray Smith's kid is the new QB?" They don't sit in the townie bar saying "Hey did you hear that Mussina kid won the Ship QB competition?"

People also don't just go to things for the sake of doing something anymore. Too many options at home. My wife and I got rid of cable 5 years ago because we were just DVRing a few shows and watching Pirates games. That wasn't worth $150/month to Verizon. So we cut down to just internet...but in the last five years streaming became a thing and with 4 kids we never really go anywhere anymore...now we're watching more TV than we ever did with cable.

I used to have a goal of buying season tickets for Edinboro football to get a reserved seat. Now I've got 4 kids, yard work, etc. Now there's a PSAC streaming app where I can watch every game home and away. I maybe go to 3 games a year: twice when I'm already in town plus Homecoming. I'm as devout as anyone but its hard to commit a Saturday for a football game when I can watch it from home - especially if the weather is iffy.

[Fightingscot82]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

Couldn't agree more. The live feeds are a last resort. Nothing beats seeing it live. You miss so much on the web feeds -- not to mention all the freezing screens, etc.

I will say the live feeds are way better now than they were just a few years back. But there's always an issue. Lock Haven forgets to turn it on until halftime. No sound. Freezes constantly. Home announcers mispronouncing their schools players' names. Gannon basketball on Snapchat.

It's better than nothing.

This made me laugh. I know very little about Snapchat but know enough to recall what it was like watching a basketball game on Gannon's feed.

[Tony33]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

I think its a hard sell for the casual community member. With high school football, especially smaller community high schools, you usually know the players. "Hey did you hear Ray Smith's kid is the new QB?" They don't sit in the townie bar saying "Hey did you hear that Mussina kid won the Ship QB competition?"

People also don't just go to things for the sake of doing something anymore. Too many options at home. My wife and I got rid of cable 5 years ago because we were just DVRing a few shows and watching Pirates games. That wasn't worth $150/month to Verizon. So we cut down to just internet...but in the last five years streaming became a thing and with 4 kids we never really go anywhere anymore...now we're watching more TV than we ever did with cable.

I used to have a goal of buying season tickets for Edinboro football to get a reserved seat. Now I've got 4 kids, yard work, etc. Now there's a PSAC streaming app where I can watch every game home and away. I maybe go to 3 games a year: twice when I'm already in town plus Homecoming. I'm as devout as anyone but its hard to commit a Saturday for a football game when I can watch it from home - especially if the weather is iffy.

True, that's why its important to get the players name out in the town, not to ride on IUP again, but I knew I was close when I saw the big advertising billboard for IUP, that's one way of attracting attention. Invite those local HS teams to the game for free or have a HS football night that may even increase attention to other programs on campus. Do Something different. Those that like to stay home do so.

[iupgroundhog]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

Look, many of us have heard all these arguments before -ad nauseum. A lot of the most assertive comments are based on pipe dreams about what you want PSAC football or more specifically, IUP football, to look like. Bashing the worst teams like this seems pointless to me. These are state universities. Having a winning record in football is not the biggest thing on their plate. I am an IUP fan and being in the hunt for a D2 NC is important to me. It's just the way we were all raised on this. At Millersville, Lock Haven, East Stroudsburg I don't think the Prez and School Deans are meeting today on this topic. If they make a decision like Mansfield did that's fine with me. If they don't, that's fine with me.

I would like to see a more competitive, football-centric set up in the PSAC but it isn't going to happen. Not now. It's cost. Travel costs, mainly. When Seton Hill joined the main factor mentioned by the PSAC was travel cost savings. I am happy IUP is so good on the D2 level. We have tried being independent and looked at D1 but it's just not reality.


Now, as far as bashing some of these schools for not being IUP in football. Maybe it's because I grew up on ABC's Wide World of Sports (Spanning the globe to bring you the constant variety of sport ...) or maybe because I grew up in LH rooting for LH and PSU teams, across the board from FB to wrestling and soccer, gymnastics, women's sports and everything in between and throughout my life I have competed in a wide range of sports from the basic scholastic sports to racket sports and cycling but I respect diverse athletics programs. There are people at LHU, for example (less vocal) who can criticize IUP athletics and make a lot of valid points. With their large number of NC's across many men's and women's sports, with their 2 highly successful D1 teams (wrestling and field hockey), and the superior support from the community. We have been conditioned to expect IUP to be good in football and basketball but there is a bigger world out there and the IUP values are not universal.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

Look, many of us have heard all these arguments before -ad nauseum. A lot of the most assertive comments are based on pipe dreams about what you want PSAC football or more specifically, IUP football, to look like. Bashing the worst teams like this seems pointless to me. These are state universities. Having a winning record in football is not the biggest thing on their plate. I am an IUP fan and being in the hunt for a D2 NC is important to me. It's just the way we were all raised on this. At Millersville, Lock Haven, East Stroudsburg I don't think the Prez and School Deans are meeting today on this topic. If they make a decision like Mansfield did that's fine with me. If they don't, that's fine with me.

I would like to see a more competitive, football-centric set up in the PSAC but it isn't going to happen. Not now. It's cost. Travel costs, mainly. When Seton Hill joined the main factor mentioned by the PSAC was travel cost savings. I am happy IUP is so good on the D2 level. We have tried being independent and looked at D1 but it's just not reality.


Now, as far as bashing some of these schools for not being IUP in football. Maybe it's because I grew up on ABC's Wide World of Sports (Spanning the globe to bring you the constant variety of sport ...) or maybe because I grew up in LH rooting for LH and PSU teams, across the board from FB to wrestling and soccer, gymnastics, women's sports and everything in between and throughout my life I have competed in a wide range of sports from the basic scholastic sports to racket sports and cycling but I respect diverse athletics programs. There are people at LHU, for example (less vocal) who can criticize IUP athletics and make a lot of valid points. With their large number of NC's across many men's and women's sports, with their 2 highly successful D1 teams (wrestling and field hockey), and the superior support from the community. We have been conditioned to expect IUP to be good in football and basketball but there is a bigger world out there and the IUP values are not universal.

There's no doubt about those points. But, this is a football (and basketball) web site. Many of the comments made in these four pages were directly related to football. This site has an 'other sports' thread if you want to discuss PSAC swimming.

Does it bother me to see the PSAC name get drug through the mud every time Lock Haven plays a money blood bath? Yes, it does. But, to each his own. That's just my opinion.

I've said for years on here that D2 football (specifically) is not an even playing field. You have the schools who want to win and you have the schools who like having a team. There's a gigantic difference. Hence, when you look at the scores every week you see the lopsided beatdowns week after week.

On the other hand, if you make this mythical PSAC super tier, guess what ... you just beat each other up and finish with a bunch of .500 (or near) records. The Yankees need the Royals, too.

I don't get how this thread and conversation keeps coming back to IUP?

[jrshooter]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

Home announcers mispronouncing their schools players' names.

Yes, and it irritates just as much when they mispronounce the opposing players' names.

It's MUSSINA, Bloomsburg. Not MUSSINI. MUSSINA. You know. The son of the 15-year MLB pitcher.

[Horror Child]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

Look, many of us have heard all these arguments before -ad nauseum. A lot of the most assertive comments are based on pipe dreams about what you want PSAC football or more specifically, IUP football, to look like. Bashing the worst teams like this seems pointless to me. These are state universities. Having a winning record in football is not the biggest thing on their plate. I am an IUP fan and being in the hunt for a D2 NC is important to me. It's just the way we were all raised on this. At Millersville, Lock Haven, East Stroudsburg I don't think the Prez and School Deans are meeting today on this topic. If they make a decision like Mansfield did that's fine with me. If they don't, that's fine with me.

I would like to see a more competitive, football-centric set up in the PSAC but it isn't going to happen. Not now. It's cost. Travel costs, mainly. When Seton Hill joined the main factor mentioned by the PSAC was travel cost savings. I am happy IUP is so good on the D2 level. We have tried being independent and looked at D1 but it's just not reality.


Now, as far as bashing some of these schools for not being IUP in football. Maybe it's because I grew up on ABC's Wide World of Sports (Spanning the globe to bring you the constant variety of sport ...) or maybe because I grew up in LH rooting for LH and PSU teams, across the board from FB to wrestling and soccer, gymnastics, women's sports and everything in between and throughout my life I have competed in a wide range of sports from the basic scholastic sports to racket sports and cycling but I respect diverse athletics programs. There are people at LHU, for example (less vocal) who can criticize IUP athletics and make a lot of valid points. With their large number of NC's across many men's and women's sports, with their 2 highly successful D1 teams (wrestling and field hockey), and the superior support from the community. We have been conditioned to expect IUP to be good in football and basketball but there is a bigger world out there and the IUP values are not universal.

That decision IS something that PASSHE presidents are paying attention to. When Mansfield dropped football, male applications and enrollments declined. That's the only reason they started the sprint football team, which has had the same amount of success as their previous D2 team.