Time to Leave the PSAC?

[EastStroud13]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

One can hope, for sure.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

I think better gate would be important to them especially if football revenues also go to other sports.

Don't even get me started on this topic.

This is a league that schedules its best 'rivalry' basketball games over XMAS break when campuses are all ghost towns ... a league infatuated with the graveyard slot of noon kickoffs ... the sports marketing savvy of a preschool.

You'd sure think gate revenue should be important. You'd think so, anyway.

[jrshooter]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

There is actually a little town north of Harrisburg called Millersburg. Its claim to fame is this old paddle wheel Ferry that crosses the Susquehanna. its commonly confused with millersville, though much smaller. I'll bet SHIP54 has taken that ferry at least once in his life.

There's no reason to ever take that ferry unless you want to cross from one side of the Tri-Valley League to the other. :laugh:

[Dozsa2]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

Let's go to the videotape with the top five teams in the D-II poll as of last week.

No. 1 Minnesota State -- Northern Sun
Mary: 0-4 this year, 3-30 previous three years.
Minnesota-Crookston: 1-3 this year, 1-32 previous three years.
Concordia St. Paul: 2-2 this year, 5-28 previous three years.

No. 2 Northwest Missouri -- Mid-America
Missouri Southern: 0-4 this year, 3-30 previous three years.
Northeastern State: 0-4 this year, 6-27 previous three years.
Nebraska Kearney: 2-2 this year, 4-29 previous three years.

No. 3 Texas A&M-Commerce -- Lone Star
UT-Permian Basin: 0-4 this year, 4-18 previous two years (entered in 2016).
Western New Mexico: 0-3 this year, 7-15 previous two years (entered in 2016).

No. 4 Indiana (Pa.) -- PSAC
Millersville: 0-4 this year, 8-25 previous three years.
Lock Haven: 1-3 this year, 8-25 previous three years.
Seton Hill: 0-4 this year, 8-25 previous three years.

No. 5 Ferris State -- Great Lakes
Michigan Tech: 2-2 this year, 15-16 previous three years.
Northern Michigan, 1-3 this year, 9-23 previous three years.
Northwood: 0-2 this year, 15-18 previous three years.

So, here's what we have. One of these conferences, the Great Lakes, is fairly devoid of "gimme" games. The Great Lakes also weeded out some weak-sister programs in the last few years -- Lake Erie, Walsh, Malone, Davenport.

Outside of that, everyone else has weak sisters. Generally weaker than the PSAC's bottom feeders.

Good info. I believe Davenport is still a member of the GLIAC. I could be wrong, though.

[Brandon]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

This isn't only a PSAC issue, it's a D2 issue.

I think it's an issue at every level of NCAA football, but I don't think it's necessarily a bad deal......

- I think 10 is the best number for a conference in Division II. If properly arranged, one or two of those teams are legitimate national championship contenders and three to four are legitimate playoff contenders. It doesn't make sense to put all the good teams in one conference and let them beat the crap out of each other only to have another conference with 10 weaklings. They will get two teams in the playoffs with a great record playing a poor schedule.

- I think it can be harmful for a school with a good football program (that wants to be great) to be in a conference where too large an amount of sports are required. For example, let's say that....

Conference A requires: (1) Football (2) Volleyball (3) Men's Cross Country (4) Women's Cross Country (5) Men's Basketball (6) Women's Basketball (7)(8) Indoor T&F (9)(10) Outdoor T&F

Conference B requires: (1) Football (2) Volleyball (3) Field Hockey (4) Men's Cross Country (5) Women's Cross Country (6) Men's Basketball (7) Women's Basketball (8)(9) Swimming & Diving (10)(11) Outdoor T&F (12)Men's Lacrosse (13) Women's Lacrosse (14) Baseball (15) Softball

It would obviously be easier for the schools wanting to have a great football program to be a part of Conference A without Conference B because of the added expenses of five additional required programs.

[Brandon]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

Let's go to the videotape with the top five teams in the D-II poll as of last week.

No. 1 Minnesota State -- Northern Sun
Mary: 0-4 this year, 3-30 previous three years.
Minnesota-Crookston: 1-3 this year, 1-32 previous three years.
Concordia St. Paul: 2-2 this year, 5-28 previous three years.

No. 2 Northwest Missouri -- Mid-America
Missouri Southern: 0-4 this year, 3-30 previous three years.
Northeastern State: 0-4 this year, 6-27 previous three years.
Nebraska Kearney: 2-2 this year, 4-29 previous three years.

No. 3 Texas A&M-Commerce -- Lone Star
UT-Permian Basin: 0-4 this year, 4-18 previous two years (entered in 2016).
Western New Mexico: 0-3 this year, 7-15 previous two years (entered in 2016).

No. 4 Indiana (Pa.) -- PSAC
Millersville: 0-4 this year, 8-25 previous three years.
Lock Haven: 1-3 this year, 8-25 previous three years.
Seton Hill: 0-4 this year, 8-25 previous three years.

No. 5 Ferris State -- Great Lakes
Michigan Tech: 2-2 this year, 15-16 previous three years.
Northern Michigan, 1-3 this year, 9-23 previous three years.
Northwood: 0-2 this year, 15-18 previous three years.

So, here's what we have. One of these conferences, the Great Lakes, is fairly devoid of "gimme" games. The Great Lakes also weeded out some weak-sister programs in the last few years -- Lake Erie, Walsh, Malone, Davenport.

Outside of that, everyone else has weak sisters. Generally weaker than the PSAC's bottom feeders.

I agree that every conference has weak teams, but the analysis is slightly flawed using Minnesota State and Northwest Missouri. Their conferences don't play non-conference games. If those are good conferences, the conference-only schedule hurts the overall record of the conference because they must play in-conference juggernauts instead of weaker, non-conference opponents. If those are bad conferences, all the records would be inflated because they are playing in-conference weaklings rather than venturing out in the word to get a butt kicking by other conferences.

Not meant to disprove your theory....just explain that it might not be the best data to use.

[Brandon]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

2017 Fort Hays
2012 Missouri Western
2005 Washburn
2003 Emporia State/Missouri Western/Central Missouri
1993 Missouri Southern

There have been some really good non-Northwest/Pitt that have made some good playoff runs, but in general those two teams have won the MIAA conference championship.

[Brandon]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

Why are so many Northern Sun programs terrible at football? Why are so many Mid-America programs terrible at football? (Perhaps they have their own version of the Dixon Trophy.)

Answered in previous comments.

[Brandon]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

Yep, stuff shifts quite a bit. I think the promotion/relegation idea is fun to think about (for example, this year we would have a top division of Ship, WCU, Kutztown, Bloom, IUP, Cal, SRU, and Boro; lower division of Hurst, Gannon, Clarion, SHU, Millersville, ESU, and LHU), but in practice it's hard to see the AD's agreeing to it. Although, I think worries about recruitment are overblown, since all of recruiting comes down to the balance between winning and playing time. The main teams I see being against this are not the bottom feeders, but the bubble teams that would risk bouncing back and forth between divisions.

And don't forget that some of the coaches would be against it, theoretically.

Why would West Chester want to give up its nice position in the East to have to battle IUP, Cal, Slippery Rock, etc. every year.

[CHIP72]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

This isn't only a PSAC issue, it's a D2 issue.

Hell, it's a college football issue, in most conferences at every level.

This issue has actually been mitigated in the PSAC with Cheyney dropping football.

[Bart]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

Didn't bloom sit or have their RB out with injury in the 14 game?

Good memory. RB Eddie Mateo was limited by injury to just six carries for 17 yards.

[jrshooter]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

Good info. I believe Davenport is still a member of the GLIAC. I could be wrong, though.

You are quite correct, sir. And they're off to a 4-0 start.

[BADinPA]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

Hell, it's a college football issue, in most conferences at every level.

This issue has actually been mitigated in the PSAC with Cheyney dropping football.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

Matter of time.

[Brandon]

Re: Time to Leave the PSAC?

Is this a legitimate possibility?