Are PSAC officials really that bad

[ironmaniup]

So the interview with Coach Tort at the end of the SRU game, by GregD has caused alot of discussion.

If you listen, and I heard it again this morning, it is not an excuse, as the Coach says both teams are to balme to some degree, but he pointed to the comparison of our teams to other conferences. So I looked at the national stats.

SRU is # 2 most yds penalized with 112 per game
LHU 107 /game # 5
Seton Hill 99.2 #8
Clarion 92.7 # 15
Shep 92.17 #17
IUP 90.5 #19

The least penalized PSAC school is Bool at 55.3 - which is 45th least penalized in the nation.

So, it seems like the PSAC is high, but not outrageously high compared to other conferences. https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/d2/current/team/698

The other issue would be the types of penalties called. I'm thinking LHU and Seton Hill may have alot more procedure type penalties, while SRU and IUP have tons of personal fouls, so the timing of these judgement calls can have an impact on the game - 9 first downs by penalty in the IUP/SRU game.

So what does everyone think, we complain alot about officials, but is the PSAC worse than others ? Maybe the PSAC west, since they seem to be higher than the East ? A few specific crews out west here ? ?

[IUP412]

So the interview with Coach Tort at the end of the SRU game, by GregD has caused alot of discussion.

If you listen, and I heard it again this morning, it is not an excuse, as the Coach says both teams are to balme to some degree, but he pointed to the comparison of our teams to other conferences. So I looked at the national stats.

SRU is # 2 most yds penalized with 112 per game
LHU 107 /game # 5
Seton Hill 99.2 #8
Clarion 92.7 # 15
Shep 92.17 #17
IUP 90.5 #19

The least penalized PSAC school is Bool at 55.3 - which is 45th least penalized in the nation.

So, it seems like the PSAC is high, but not outrageously high compared to other conferences. https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/d2/current/team/698

The other issue would be the types of penalties called. I'm thinking LHU and Seton Hill may have alot more procedure type penalties, while SRU and IUP have tons of personal fouls, so the timing of these judgement calls can have an impact on the game - 9 first downs by penalty in the IUP/SRU game.

So what does everyone think, we complain alot about officials, but is the PSAC worse than others ? Maybe the PSAC west, since they seem to be higher than the East ? A few specific crews out west here ? ?

There poor officials. It is obvious. They have 5 minute meetings on every call, they pick up numerous flags, they over officiate which tells me they are all still doing High School ball not ready for speed or talent level, poor Mike skills by white hat which shows lack of confidence and rule knowledge. No flow to game way too many flags. If there was replay the games would be 4 hours long that's how Bad they are......just sayin

[IUPbigINDIANS]

As a whole ... it's a tough watch. Football is to the point you look for a flag on every play. Some of these crew want to be the show.

But, personal fouls are personal fouls. They can't NOT call them. That's one area teams have to control much better.

[Fightingscot82]

As a whole ... it's a tough watch. Football is to the point you look for a flag on every play. Some of these crew want to be the show.

But, personal fouls are personal fouls. They can't NOT call them. That's one area teams have to control much better.

Agree. With as bad as the economies are in the areas surrounding so many DII schools, I'm surprised that the pool of officials is as bad as it is. But then again, the training is next to nothing. I know someone who is a college rugby referee and he had to watch a 45 minute video then pass a quiz at the end. That's it. Never played the game in his life.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Agree. With as bad as the economies are in the areas surrounding so many DII schools, I'm surprised that the pool of officials is as bad as it is. But then again, the training is next to nothing. I know someone who is a college rugby referee and he had to watch a 45 minute video then pass a quiz at the end. That's it. Never played the game in his life.

It's not a real attractive proposition, either. Most people can find much more enjoyable ways to spend their Saturday afternoon than getting berated by ego maniac coaches all day. I think the PSAC pays them $250 per game. The head official probably makes a little more. But, they travel mad distances.

As you know I'm much more in-tune with the basketball side and know several of the officials from over the years. Some of those crews will be in Indiana one night, down in Virginia the next night and then at West Chester on the weekend.

I know in basketball how the game is going to go before it even tips off. The crew tells the whole story. Some just let them play and only call the obvious. Other crews want to be the whole show and call foul after foul all night. Then you get the crew who wants the tab to be even ... call 10 fouls on them and 10 on the other team. It takes some thick skin to officiate basketball -- especially in the gyms which actually draw. The crowd is right on top of you. Then you get the Joe Lombardi or Damien Blair type on you for 40 minutes. It's really an awful job.


The crew at IUP/SRU was just totally lost. It was too big for them. They lost complete control. It's easy to see why Tort and Lutz wanted to eat them alive (and basically did all day).

[Bart]

I don't know the retention rate for PSAC officials, but PIAA is losing officials.
From 2008 to 2018, Pennsylvania lost almost 1,400 sports officials. It's a decline of almost 10%.

• Football lost 8% of its refs.
• Basketball just 2%.
• Soccer saw a drop of 13%.
• Wrestling fell 15%.
• Baseball has 17 % fewer school-sanctioned umpires than it did in 2008.

https://wnep.com/2019/10/01/to-the-s...ires-quitting/

Baseball	2,152	1,796
Basketball	4,980	4,887
Field Hockey	597	458
Football	2,626	2,404
Gymnastics	51	47
Boys Lacrosse	164	517
Girls Lacrosse	228	352
Soccer	1,896	1,641
Softball	1,696	1,424
Swimming/Diving	767	569
Track & Field	807	662
Volleyball	1,064	1,005
Wrestling	904	771
TOTALS	17,932	16,533

[Ship69]

A junior football league in West Virginia not far from me recently had to suspend play because all its officials got tired of taking crap and just quit.

[Fightingscot82]

It's not a real attractive proposition, either.Most people can find much more enjoyable ways to spend their Saturday afternoon than getting berated by ego maniac coaches all day. I think the PSAC pays them $250 per game. The head official probably makes a little more. But, they travel mad distances.

As you know I'm much more in-tune with the basketball side and know several of the officials from over the years. Some of those crews will be in Indiana one night, down in Virginia the next night and then at West Chester on the weekend.

I know in basketball how the game is going to go before it even tips off. The crew tells the whole story. Some just let them play and only call the obvious. Other crews want to be the whole show and call foul after foul all night. Then you get the crew who wants the tab to be even ... call 10 fouls on them and 10 on the other team. It takes some thick skin to officiate basketball -- especially in the gyms which actually draw. The crowd is right on top of you. Then you get the Joe Lombardi or Damien Blair type on you for 40 minutes. It's really an awful job.


The crew at IUP/SRU was just totally lost. It was too big for them. They lost complete control. It's easy to see why Tort and Lutz wanted to eat them alive (and basically did all day).

I understand that. My first job was at 14 umpiring "mustang league" baseball games (10 years old, player pitching) in the mid-90s. I think I got $15 for behind the plate, $12 for in the field, and on occasion $20 when I had to do both. I couldn't wait to be done but I made enough to save up and buy my first set of golf clubs.

[IUPNation]

Stevie Wonder can do a better job.

[WarriorVoice]

IMO Football is the most difficult sport to officiate because of the size of the field and the amount of players on the field. Frankly I think more officials are necessary to be able to cover the field. On a related note, ESU sent 4 plays to the PSAC office after Saturday's game against Kutztown, and received an apology from the PSAC. An apology doesn't make up for the blown calls, and there's no doubt that it happens during almost every game, across all levels of the sport. Having said all of that, officials are human, so expecting them not to make mistakes is unrealistic.

[Ship69]

There was a very controversial play toward the end of the Kutztown-Ship game last season when what looked like a Ship TD ended up being called a fumble and Kutztown ball. The overturned Penn State touchdown Saturday night reminded me of it. I don't recall Coach Mac ever blowing his top like he did after that play. I think they ended up with two unsportsmanlike penalties after that one. No replays at Division II, and you just live with it wherever it falls. It is what it is.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Other side of the coin theory: Are today's officials basically the same as they've always been and the players are just that more undisciplined compared to years past? Are they not being coached well (and hard) enough?

[Fightingscot82]

Other side of the coin theory: Are today's officials basically the same as they've always been and the players are just that more undisciplined compared to years past? Are they not being coached well (and hard) enough?

Probably a little bit of both.

[GregD]

I was told that the officiating crew for the IUP-SRU game has been suspended but I can't confirm this.
The league office as of yesterday was not aware of this.

[IUP24]

I was told that the officiating crew for the IUP-SRU game has been suspended but I can't confirm this.
The league office as of yesterday was not aware of this.

Wasn't there a bunch of discussion on here last year that the crew that did the Cal-IUP game got suspended as well, but was never confirmed by the league office?

How was the league office not aware of this? Do they not manage/handle the officials or is somebody else technically in charge of them?