PASSHE Institutions Merging

[iupgroundhog]

Senator asks for 2 year delay.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/ed...s/202105170084

I kinda liked my previous Guinness Book reference but that is the peril of making judgments based on hearsay rather than actual reading. Brewster is correct. I said promote the state appropriation issue back when everybody was saying Armenti was right with his privatization plan.

Brewster emerges as a voice of reason. Let's face it, Greenstein's plan isn't working.

[complaint_hopeful]

Not to mention that the western merger spans two area codes. With Cal designated as the hub campus, will 2/3 of the students living in the 814 area code be calling 724 numbers? Most higher ed information systems & saas licenses use pricing based on enrollment. So its possible that a new larger university will actually be paying more for essential software than the three smaller schools if the enrollment puts them in a new pricing level. Granted, the pricing difference could only be $50k a year but that's still the net revenue of 3 students in a plan where enrollment is going to be mostly flat at best. Above all, the numbers on these plans have such tight margins that neither plan can afford to sustain enrollment decreases. Best case scenario in the western plan is a 1% increase over 5 years. That's not even 150 new students.

Oh and there are lots of expenses in consolidating systems. (It listed something about a lot of the initial expenses being in IT in the Integration plan).

The enrollment to me is tricky. Because you're getting rid of programs at schools in the Triad and at other PASSHE schools. You're getting a ton of bad press in the process. The name will change. Maybe email addresses, etc. I'm sure atleast some volume of students will transfer because of this. Hopefully not a lot. Then, you have different modalities. Like you get rid of employees and maybe you have to do more hybrid and online classes. Over the pandemic, we were told that a certain percentage of students don't like online classes...and we needed in person to open.

But, then you are offering some programs at schools that are new and in different modalities...so you might pick up some students there that couldn't take classes there.

And, online education isn't new. Can you actually grow online now? It seems like it's a little late to enter that game with a new brand.

Will employees understand this enough to be able to articulate and answer student questions and objections? That's essential in recruiting.

Plus, we know that other schools are using this info to recruit against the triads.

[Fightingscot82]

Great points. So people act like this Implementation Plan is directions on how to build this thing. It's really a high level business case.

I think more time is needed to think of how all the parts fit together to do day-to-day operations. There are also some major projects. Converting 3 schools to 1 student info system and all the supporting systems. Will the domain and email addresses change to 1? If so, that's several large projects. How will day-to-day business work? Will there be 1 Admissions dept or 3? How will students contact them? Will there be 1 number or 3? How will that be routed? I could name hundreds of other items that are up in the air and need worked out. But, if this gets implemented, they're going to have to figure a lot of this out on the fly.

Oh...and during this all, some schools will be laying off hundreds of people from the Sustainability plans!

I just don't see how this can all come together in the next year and have a seamless/quality product. And for students to start in the Fall, a lot of this stuff has to happen quicker.

I think the likely outcome of rushing it is that there will be a lot of confusion and parts that don't work that great that need worked through. And maybe they can be worked through. Maybe some workarounds in place.

Not to mention that the western merger spans two area codes. With Cal designated as the hub campus, will 2/3 of the students living in the 814 area code be calling 724 numbers? Most higher ed information systems & saas licenses use pricing based on enrollment. So its possible that a new larger university will actually be paying more for essential software than the three smaller schools if the enrollment puts them in a new pricing level. Granted, the pricing difference could only be $50k a year but that's still the net revenue of 3 students in a plan where enrollment is going to be mostly flat at best. Above all, the numbers on these plans have such tight margins that neither plan can afford to sustain enrollment decreases. Best case scenario in the western plan is a 1% increase over 5 years. That's not even 150 new students.

[complaint_hopeful]

That's not the goal. If you read the plans, the math doesn't line up or justify the drastic measures. It doesn't make much sense to spend $30M to save $26M. Plus there are valid concerns that the rushed timeline could result in further damage. There has been NO research into how the future student population will react to the new setup, which is radically different from anything else out there. There's only been research done on names, which isn't as big because our schools don't have enough cache to matter.

Great points. So people act like this Implementation Plan is directions on how to build this thing. It's really a high level business case.

I think more time is needed to think of how all the parts fit together to do day-to-day operations. There are also some major projects. Converting 3 schools to 1 student info system and all the supporting systems. Will the domain and email addresses change to 1? If so, that's several large projects. How will day-to-day business work? Will there be 1 Admissions dept or 3? How will students contact them? Will there be 1 number or 3? How will that be routed? I could name hundreds of other items that are up in the air and need worked out. But, if this gets implemented, they're going to have to figure a lot of this out on the fly.

Oh...and during this all, some schools will be laying off hundreds of people from the Sustainability plans!

I just don't see how this can all come together in the next year and have a seamless/quality product. And for students to start in the Fall, a lot of this stuff has to happen quicker.

I think the likely outcome of rushing it is that there will be a lot of confusion and parts that don't work that great that need worked through. And maybe they can be worked through. Maybe some workarounds in place.

[Fightingscot82]

It may well be a way to get just enough support from the rural republican legislators to up the state allocation of money to PASSHE, at least for a few years. The plans are not well thought out, they are an ultimatum. Either pay for the passhe schools or lose them. The merger proposal was a good way to get everyones attention. Pausing the merger will also allow the schools to resize their staff. the downside is that the resizing is different for merged vs not merged schools. but the schools will be much happier going through staff cuts individually.

I agree. I'm not a fan of specialization but something that was abandoned several years ago was certain schools taking on defined characteristics. Maybe that does include academic specialization but the 14 comprehensive regional universities model isn't good. I believe there are roles within PASSHE that can be an advantage - if the funding can increase in exchange for holding costs down to grow that gap between PASSHE & everyone else. Probably one of each characteristic per "side" of the state too since reputations aren't statewide and students attending regionals tend to go no farther than 100 miles from home. I think we're de facto already there with IUP and West Chester asserting themselves as the "little R1" of each side of the state. Two schools should also be more selective, liberal arts-focused schools similar to Truman State. Two schools can be fine & performing arts-heavy. Two schools can be engineering & hard sciences. You get the drift. It doesn't mean that every school drops business administration & education program either.

[ironmaniup]

That's not the goal. If you read the plans, the math doesn't line up or justify the drastic measures. It doesn't make much sense to spend $30M to save $26M. Plus there are valid concerns that the rushed timeline could result in further damage. There has been NO research into how the future student population will react to the new setup, which is radically different from anything else out there. There's only been research done on names, which isn't as big because our schools don't have enough cache to matter.

It may well be a way to get just enough support from the rural republican legislators to up the state allocation of money to PASSHE, at least for a few years. The plans are not well thought out, they are an ultimatum. Either pay for the passhe schools or lose them. The merger proposal was a good way to get everyones attention. Pausing the merger will also allow the schools to resize their staff. the downside is that the resizing is different for merged vs not merged schools. but the schools will be much happier going through staff cuts individually.

[Fightingscot82]

Kicking the can again...

That's not the goal. If you read the plans, the math doesn't line up or justify the drastic measures. It doesn't make much sense to spend $30M to save $26M. Plus there are valid concerns that the rushed timeline could result in further damage. There has been NO research into how the future student population will react to the new setup, which is radically different from anything else out there. There's only been research done on names, which isn't as big because our schools don't have enough cache to matter.

[WarriorVoice]

Senator asks for 2 year delay.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/ed...s/202105170084

Kicking the can again...

[Bart]

Senator asks for 2 year delay.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/ed...s/202105170084

[complaint_hopeful]

It was State Senator Jim Brewster (Allegheny County) who suggested that Cheyney's "turnaround" could serve as a blueprint for other schools in the system. He should be contacting the Guinness Book of World Records because he might hold the record for being the most out of touch human being.

Hey I'm sure if the failing schools got multi million dollar loans they don't have to pay back that helps. Haha.

Pretty sure West Chester helps them administratively too.

I wonder if the money used to fund this integration was used to pay down debt and let schools implement the sustainability plans...how this would turn out.

[iupgroundhog]

It is crazy. They're already paying consultants to come up with names before approved. That's another of several examples. So if the board votes this down, millions are wasted.

In the hearing today, Greenstein stuck to the go live being next Fall too. I think that's ultimately where this thing fails. There's too much to do over the next year and a lot has to be in place several months earlier.

If he'd just add another year to the time frame and work through the sustainability plans, this thing has a better chance to succeed.

It was State Senator Jim Brewster (Allegheny County) who suggested that Cheyney's "turnaround" could serve as a blueprint for other schools in the system. He should be contacting the Guinness Book of World Records because he might hold the record for being the most out of touch human being.

[complaint_hopeful]

I noticed in the hearing today that there were several things that Greenstein said and then explained when questioned...that wasn't understood by the audience. Some of it is the words he uses. It's also quite obvious that he has a lot of internal discussions and uses the same lingo they use.

Essentially, some people do not understand this plan.

I almost wonder if he's miscast in his role? I don't think he's a great fit in a union environment for instance. I also don't think his words resonate with the average person. He's came into an environment that changes very slowly and is doing several major change initiatives. But, I don't know that they have the resources here that he had elsewhere.

I feel like he'd make a good CEO of a company. Maybe a good President at a mid to large University. Some environment where he doesn't have to deal with all of these challenges like these hearings.

[complaint_hopeful]

I would say in unequivocal terms stop the process until there is a ruling from the NCAA. If the NCAA rules no, the triads are a failure.

At this point, how can the process move forward without that ruling?

It's bullsh#t.

It is crazy. They're already paying consultants to come up with names before approved. That's another of several examples. So if the board votes this down, millions are wasted.

In the hearing today, Greenstein stuck to the go live being next Fall too. I think that's ultimately where this thing fails. There's too much to do over the next year and a lot has to be in place several months earlier.

If he'd just add another year to the time frame and work through the sustainability plans, this thing has a better chance to succeed.

[WVIAC-F-EVER]

The ncaa requires that the school you are playing for is granting the name on the degree

So, if the schools merging are still granting degrees

This NCAA rules could apply


3.02.3.1 Active Member. An active member is a four-year college or university or a two-year upper-level collegiate institution accredited by the appropriate regional accrediting agency (see Constitution 3.2.1.1.1for the accreditation standard for an international institution) and duly elected to active membership under the provisions of this article (see Constitution 3.3.3). Active members have the right to compete in NCAA championships, to vote on legislation and other issues before the Association, and to enjoy other privileges of membership designated in the constitution and bylaws of the Association. (See Constitution 3.3.2.1.1regarding restrictions on the privileges of for-profit institutions.) (Revised: 10/16/12, 10/30/14, 5/15/17, 1/20/18)

and the ncaa allows for consortium of schools to field a team


3.02.3.1.1 Athletics Consortium. An athletics consortium consists of one member institution and neighboring member or nonmember institutions (but not more than one nonmember institution), recognized and approved by a two-thirds vote of the Management Council. The student-athletes of the combined institutions are permitted to compete on the NCAA member institution's athletics teams, provided they meet the eligibility requirements of the NCAA and the member institution (see Constitution 3.2.2

[iupgroundhog]

I would say in unequivocal terms stop the process until there is a ruling from the NCAA. If the NCAA rules no, the triads are a failure.

At this point, how can the process move forward without that ruling?

It's bullsh#t.