Originally posted by boatcapt
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Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
But that's not what endowments are. An endowment isn't reserves.
I also think you underestimate the political power of Penn State with the legislature. 23 physical campuses plus "cooperative extension" presences in every one of PA's counties to do agricultural support. Plus additional outreach centers. Penn State operates a lobbying office in Pittsburgh - I imagine they have others in other cities. All that before legislators get their hands on football tickets.
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Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
I note there is not much "gain" for any school merged with the PASSHE schools. I was answering a hypothetical question.
Didn't say the gain was for PS or Temple. Both schools endowments FAR exceed any of the remaining endowments for any PASSHE school so they would be better able to absorb the losses being incurred by the PASSHE schools they inherit. Once the schools were absorbed by PS and Temple, the two universities would determine the best course of action to either stabalize/grow them as quasi independent colleges or merge them within their current branch campus system.
The state has a hook into PS and Temple, that hook is state funding. Tell both that they either take the six schools, or they lose their state funding.
I also think you underestimate the political power of Penn State with the legislature. 23 physical campuses plus "cooperative extension" presences in every one of PA's counties to do agricultural support. Plus additional outreach centers. Penn State operates a lobbying office in Pittsburgh - I imagine they have others in other cities. All that before legislators get their hands on football tickets.
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Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
I don't see any gain for Temple in that scenario. They're nowhere near the levels of Pitt and Penn State in terms of financial strength nor are they into the whole branch campus thing. I also don't see a gain for Penn State. Edinboro is 30 miles from one of the only two Penn State outlet stores that are doing well and in the same county. Cal is very close to Penn State Fayette. But Clarion is fairly isolated from other schools. They're about 30 minutes from Penn State DuBois but there's no real benefit there.
Didn't say the gain was for PS or Temple. Both schools endowments FAR exceed any of the remaining endowments for any PASSHE school so they would be better able to absorb the losses being incurred by the PASSHE schools they inherit. Once the schools were absorbed by PS and Temple, the two universities would determine the best course of action to either stabalize/grow them as quasi independent colleges or merge them within their current branch campus system.
The state has a hook into PS and Temple, that hook is state funding. Tell both that they either take the six schools, or they lose their state funding.
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I do think the state should tell Pitt and Penn State that state dollars can no longer support 4 year residential experiences at their branches. I don't know how they do that but its gotta happen. Can't help fund something that directly competes with something you own.
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Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
The Cal/Boro/Clarion triumvirate with Penn State or the Bloom/Mansfield/Haven consolidation with Temple. Reason - Financial solvency of the remaining 8 schools in the PASSHE and force the burden of the failing schools on state funded schools with deeper pockets.
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Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View PostSo hypothetically, say you could merge a passhe school of your choice with any school in PA. Which pair would you make and why?
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Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View PostSo hypothetically, say you could merge a passhe school of your choice with any school in PA. Which pair would you make and why?
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So hypothetically, say you could merge a passhe school of your choice with any school in PA. Which pair would you make and why?
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Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View PostThis article shows PASSHE enrollment 2010 compared to 2019. But, it also shows Penn State enrollment. Most of their branch campuses have lost similar enrollment levels to PASSHE numbers:
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Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View PostThis article shows PASSHE enrollment 2010 compared to 2019. But, it also shows Penn State enrollment. Most of their branch campuses have lost similar enrollment levels to PASSHE numbers:
There are some truly all-star students who attend these schools because of geography or cost or whatever, but most are just extra PASSHE students. And that extra few thousand Penn State charges each year adds up - and thus their retention and graduation rates are just as bad if not worse. They run out of money a little faster and leave with a lot of debt and no degree.
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This article shows PASSHE enrollment 2010 compared to 2019. But, it also shows Penn State enrollment. Most of their branch campuses have lost similar enrollment levels to PASSHE numbers:
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Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View Post
That's how I see that scenario playing out too.
Some of the mergers might be with like a Pitt or Penn State.
Interestingly, I don't see the Integrations as guaranteed to save some of these schools. I think that's still up in the air if it works and I eagerly await the presentation to the BOG where they show the number projections of the Integrations. What are enrollment projections? What are cost projections? How much savings are projected? I hope they include the assumptions they use. Like if they show a lot of growth, I want to see how they determined that.
So if it works, that's one path. But, IF the Integrations fail...that leads down a different road and is that road the dissolution of PASSHE road?
As a whole, the Pitt and Penn State branches are failing enterprises. They have significantly lower admission standards, have a much lower hiring standard for academic faculty, and lose students and money as well as Cheyney or Mansfield. If they didn't have the Pitt or Penn State branding and instead were Hazleton State College they would have closed decades ago. But they're still valuable to the motherships because they are like an outlet store or a factory seconds store. It puts something otherwise unattainable within reach of lower and middle class Pennsylvanians and puts a ton of Pitt and Penn State branding out there on top of tens of thousands of "alumni" sporting Penn State or Pitt diplomas. This information is hidden from public view (and most of the media) because they're not subject to state open records law. If Pitt or Penn State knew how to run a successful second-tier campus they would have more.
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