Originally posted by boatcapt
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PASSHE Institutions Merging
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Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View PostSo hypothetically, say you could merge a passhe school of your choice with any school in PA. Which pair would you make and why?
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Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View PostSo hypothetically, say you could merge a passhe school of your choice with any school in PA. Which pair would you make and why?
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So hypothetically, say you could merge a passhe school of your choice with any school in PA. Which pair would you make and why?
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Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View PostThis article shows PASSHE enrollment 2010 compared to 2019. But, it also shows Penn State enrollment. Most of their branch campuses have lost similar enrollment levels to PASSHE numbers:
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Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View PostThis article shows PASSHE enrollment 2010 compared to 2019. But, it also shows Penn State enrollment. Most of their branch campuses have lost similar enrollment levels to PASSHE numbers:
There are some truly all-star students who attend these schools because of geography or cost or whatever, but most are just extra PASSHE students. And that extra few thousand Penn State charges each year adds up - and thus their retention and graduation rates are just as bad if not worse. They run out of money a little faster and leave with a lot of debt and no degree.
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This article shows PASSHE enrollment 2010 compared to 2019. But, it also shows Penn State enrollment. Most of their branch campuses have lost similar enrollment levels to PASSHE numbers:
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Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View Post
That's how I see that scenario playing out too.
Some of the mergers might be with like a Pitt or Penn State.
Interestingly, I don't see the Integrations as guaranteed to save some of these schools. I think that's still up in the air if it works and I eagerly await the presentation to the BOG where they show the number projections of the Integrations. What are enrollment projections? What are cost projections? How much savings are projected? I hope they include the assumptions they use. Like if they show a lot of growth, I want to see how they determined that.
So if it works, that's one path. But, IF the Integrations fail...that leads down a different road and is that road the dissolution of PASSHE road?
As a whole, the Pitt and Penn State branches are failing enterprises. They have significantly lower admission standards, have a much lower hiring standard for academic faculty, and lose students and money as well as Cheyney or Mansfield. If they didn't have the Pitt or Penn State branding and instead were Hazleton State College they would have closed decades ago. But they're still valuable to the motherships because they are like an outlet store or a factory seconds store. It puts something otherwise unattainable within reach of lower and middle class Pennsylvanians and puts a ton of Pitt and Penn State branding out there on top of tens of thousands of "alumni" sporting Penn State or Pitt diplomas. This information is hidden from public view (and most of the media) because they're not subject to state open records law. If Pitt or Penn State knew how to run a successful second-tier campus they would have more.
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Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
Funny that 10 years into the PASSHE slide and some still need to be convinced that there is a problem!
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Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
Yep...You would have 14 state owned but non-affiliated schools. Budgets would probably be independently debated and voted on by the legislature. Some of the more failing schools would be forced to either close OR completely merge with other schools. Certainly alumni, local communities and faculty will argue against closings/mergings but in the long run, it is probably necessary.Last edited by Fightingscot82; 04-19-2021, 10:53 AM. Reason: Edit: updated the decade when PA formally "purchased" the current PASSHE schools
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Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
Funny that 10 years into the PASSHE slide and some still need to be convinced that there is a problem!
But, with the funding/enrollment/cost levels, this thing is failing as it's currently configured. You can cut costs so much, but growth is what is really needed...and it's going to be tough sledding in that area as there are so many schools.
I just don't know that the Integrations will save enough money to help. Wasn't it Georgia that saved less that a percent of costs Integrating?Last edited by complaint_hopeful; 04-19-2021, 10:29 AM.
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Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View Post
That's how I see that scenario playing out too.
Some of the mergers might be with like a Pitt or Penn State.
Interestingly, I don't see the Integrations as guaranteed to save some of these schools. I think that's still up in the air if it works and I eagerly await the presentation to the BOG where they show the number projections. I hope they include the assumptions they use. Like if they show a lot of growth, I want to see how they determined that.
So if it works, that's one path. But, IF the Integrations fail...that leads down a different road and is that road the dissolution of PASSHE road?
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Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
Yep...You would have 14 state owned but non-affiliated schools. Budgets would probably be independently debated and voted on by the legislature. Some of the more failing schools would be forced to either close OR completely merge with other schools. Certainly alumni, local communities and faculty will argue against closings/mergings but in the long run, it is probably necessary.
Some of the mergers might be with like a Pitt or Penn State.
Interestingly, I don't see the Integrations as guaranteed to save some of these schools. I think that's still up in the air if it works and I eagerly await the presentation to the BOG where they show the number projections of the Integrations. What are enrollment projections? What are cost projections? How much savings are projected? I hope they include the assumptions they use. Like if they show a lot of growth, I want to see how they determined that.
So if it works, that's one path. But, IF the Integrations fail...that leads down a different road and is that road the dissolution of PASSHE road?Last edited by complaint_hopeful; 04-19-2021, 09:40 AM.
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Originally posted by iupgroundhog View PostAnother thing. When I read about this exchange in the media it sounded like a heated, off the cuff exchange of words. But when I listen to the actual conversation, it has a serious tone. Greenstein sounded pretty matter-of-fact regarding the possibility of dissolution and Pittman sounded serious about sponsoring a bill. When you listen to it, it does not seem like they are joking.
My guess is schools did the sustainability plans. And then covid hit. The Integrations were over a longer timeframe initially, but then they expedited the timeframe drastically.
So why did they do this? Well I think they saw the sustainability plans and realized that some schools were going to be bankrupt soon. We see Mansfield borrowing that $7 million. In the BOG call, they referenced this borrowing was projected in their sustainability plan. But, there are supposedly others in really bad shape too that may need money soon too.
So, the only hope some of these schools have to survive is the Integration OR borrowing money from the system (that they may never be able to pay back if they don't turn things around). So PASSHE can probably afford to support 1 school as a system, but when 2-3-4 start to fail, it would eventually bankrupt the whole system. So why let weaker schools take them all down? At that point, you're better off un-coupling to let the strong ones make it.
All of this of course assuming the state continues to fund these schools at the 2000 level of funding. <-- That is the root cause of most of this mess.Last edited by complaint_hopeful; 04-19-2021, 09:11 AM.
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