Shepherd in Semi-Finals

[iupgroundhog]

While I would love to see my alma mater compete for a national championship in football, I realize there are obstacles to that happening. This entire discussion bugs me. Competitive imbalance on any level isn't good. Balance is preferable. But maybe you can't have the optimal balance across the entire D2 football landscape.

The important thing to remember is that this is D2 sports. D2 athletics is predicated on specific values that are laid out in writing and D2 institutions are supposed to embrace and follow. I think there is an equally valid argument that a handful of D2 football schools actually overemphasize football and if they want to do that it is their choice. SR1 is what it is in football. There was a day when my alma mater was one of those top 3 or 4 dominant teams in the country in D2. Looking at it from outside of the IUP world, it wasn't desirable across the region and the conference pulled IUP back. IMO, that wasn't a good thing. On the other hand, there are a lot of D2 schools and they all have a voice.

There are a lot of factors that make the likes of Pitt State, NWMSU, GVSU, Ferris State the top of the heap n D2 football. If there is one key, generic thing it is the relative importance regionally of each team. This brings in fans, donors, school emphasis, media attention, etc. In a big way, it is the aforementioned schools that are the anomalies. They operate more like a D1 program. In this thread, we see their fans taking the attitude that other schools should be more like them. I don't think that is realistic. Also, as we've seen, some schools come and go. Where was Colorado School of Mines a couple of years ago? Conversely, what happened to Minnesota State, which was the dominant team a few short years ago?

Furthermore, NCAA Division II is comprised of a lot of sports with a lot of student-athletes participating in them. That's what D2 is about. If you want to professionalize football, take your program up to another level (and quit complaining). As of today, the sport that has the most D2 schools is Men's Basketball. Out of 306 teams, my alma mater is ranked #2. Does IUP whine about competitive imbalance? If you need the answer, it is no.

Finally, I would like to say that I thoroughly enjoyed the 2022 football season in SR1 and the PSAC. I really don't care that much what Pitt State and NWMSU do.

[Ship69]

IUP just lowered out of state tuition.

Ship lowered it for some sections of Maryland and New Jersey quite a while ago.

[Ship69]

While I would love to see my alma mater compete for a national championship in football, I realize there are obstacles to that happening. This entire discussion bugs me. Competitive imbalance on any level isn't good. Balance is preferable. But maybe you can't have the optimal balance across the entire D2 football landscape.

The important thing to remember is that this is D2 sports. D2 athletics is predicated on specific values that are laid out in writing and D2 institutions are supposed to embrace and follow. I think there is an equally valid argument that a handful of D2 football schools actually overemphasize football and if they want to do that it is their choice. SR1 is what it is in football. There was a day when my alma mater was one of those top 3 or 4 dominant teams in the country in D2. Looking at it from outside of the IUP world, it wasn't desirable across the region and the conference pulled IUP back. IMO, that wasn't a good thing. On the other hand, there are a lot of D2 schools and they all have a voice.

There are a lot of factors that make the likes of Pitt State, NWMSU, GVSU, Ferris State the top of the heap n D2 football. If there is one key, generic thing it is the relative importance regionally of each team. This brings in fans, donors, school emphasis, media attention, etc. In a big way, it is the aforementioned schools that are the anomalies. They operate more like a D1 program. In this thread, we see their fans taking the attitude that other schools should be more like them. I don't think that is realistic. Also, as we've seen, some schools come and go. Where was Colorado School of Mines a couple of years ago? Conversely, what happened to Minnesota State, which was the dominant team a few short years ago?

Furthermore, NCAA Division II is comprised of a lot of sports with a lot of student-athletes participating in them. That's what D2 is about. If you want to professionalize football, take your program up to another level (and quit complaining). As of today, the sport that has the most D2 schools is Men's Basketball. Out of 306 teams, my alma mater is ranked #2. Does IUP whine about competitive imbalance? If you need the answer, it is no.

Finally, I would like to say that I thoroughly enjoyed the 2022 football season in SR1 and the PSAC. I really don't care that much what Pitt State and NWMSU do.

Good piece. As you say, we have what we have at his point. Personally, I'd just like to see us get better football balance back in the PSAC before we worry about the national scene.

[Ram040506]

IUP just lowered out of state tuition.

NOT FAIR!

[Ram Tough]

I enjoyed the season all the way up until the ending. I just get frustrated because anytime I mention the good things about Shepherd, people from other Regions act like I am talking about D3 football. Maybe I shouldn't worry about the perception so much.

By the way, I was told once again that Shepherd is at 30 football scholarships. Of course, that is just one piece of the puzzle.

[Ram040506]

I enjoyed the season all the way up until the ending. I just get frustrated because anytime I mention the good things about Shepherd, people from other Regions act like I am talking about D3 football. Maybe I shouldn't worry about the perception so much.

By the way, I was told once again that Shepherd is at 30 football scholarships. Of course, that is just one piece of the puzzle.

It's not the other regions. It's 3/4 schools supporters in Region 3 and then whoever that year's GSC champ is in region 2 down south. The rest of the country is in the same boat as Region 1.

I am genuinely curious how Mines is going to fair against Ferris this weekend. Ferris beat the absolute snot out of Valdosta last year, and easily dispatched West Florida last week as well. Don't see too much mention of the GSC champ getting whipped the last couple years on the boards (granted they built a ton of equity for that). If Mines gets pummeled, perhaps the entirety of D2 is just not there with Ferris at the moment?

I will be rooting for Mines though, school is a class act.

[IUPNation]

While I would love to see my alma mater compete for a national championship in football, I realize there are obstacles to that happening. This entire discussion bugs me. Competitive imbalance on any level isn't good. Balance is preferable. But maybe you can't have the optimal balance across the entire D2 football landscape.

The important thing to remember is that this is D2 sports. D2 athletics is predicated on specific values that are laid out in writing and D2 institutions are supposed to embrace and follow. I think there is an equally valid argument that a handful of D2 football schools actually overemphasize football and if they want to do that it is their choice. SR1 is what it is in football. There was a day when my alma mater was one of those top 3 or 4 dominant teams in the country in D2. Looking at it from outside of the IUP world, it wasn't desirable across the region and the conference pulled IUP back. IMO, that wasn't a good thing. On the other hand, there are a lot of D2 schools and they all have a voice.

There are a lot of factors that make the likes of Pitt State, NWMSU, GVSU, Ferris State the top of the heap n D2 football. If there is one key, generic thing it is the relative importance regionally of each team. This brings in fans, donors, school emphasis, media attention, etc. In a big way, it is the aforementioned schools that are the anomalies. They operate more like a D1 program. In this thread, we see their fans taking the attitude that other schools should be more like them. I don't think that is realistic. Also, as we've seen, some schools come and go. Where was Colorado School of Mines a couple of years ago? Conversely, what happened to Minnesota State, which was the dominant team a few short years ago?

Furthermore, NCAA Division II is comprised of a lot of sports with a lot of student-athletes participating in them. That's what D2 is about. If you want to professionalize football, take your program up to another level (and quit complaining). As of today, the sport that has the most D2 schools is Men's Basketball. Out of 306 teams, my alma mater is ranked #2. Does IUP whine about competitive imbalance? If you need the answer, it is no.

Finally, I would like to say that I thoroughly enjoyed the 2022 football season in SR1 and the PSAC. I really don't care that much what Pitt State and NWMSU do.

We will never get rid of the bad taste the IUP Rule did to Frank until we get back to that level. I resent the rest of the league for what they did.

Just wait until they try to do it to Joe. It’s not fair we have a D1 arena and we dominate…so they will say.

[Wallst]

It's not the other regions. It's 3/4 schools supporters in Region 3 and then whoever that year's GSC champ is in region 2 down south. The rest of the country is in the same boat as Region 1.

I am genuinely curious how Mines is going to fair against Ferris this weekend. Ferris beat the absolute snot out of Valdosta last year, and easily dispatched West Florida last week as well. Don't see too much mention of the GSC champ getting whipped the last couple years on the boards (granted they built a ton of equity for that). If Mines gets pummeled, perhaps the entirety of D2 is just not there with Ferris at the moment?

I will be rooting for Mines though, school is a class act.

Mines gave Grand Valley everything they wanted early in the year. As you saw, their qb is legit. To my knowledge Grand Valley doesn't have a NFL player on D like Caleb Murphy. He would comment on this post but he's still busy sacking the Pitt State qb. Ferris offense, despite what you might have seen last week is not elite. UWF and for that matter most of the GSC is trash on defense. I think Ferris wins but not in blowout fashion. 10-13 with the last score coming late.

[EyeoftheHawk]

Mines gave Grand Valley everything they wanted early in the year. As you saw, their qb is legit. To my knowledge Grand Valley doesn't have a NFL player on D like Caleb Murphy. He would comment on this post but he's still busy sacking the Pitt State qb. Ferris offense, despite what you might have seen last week is not elite. UWF and for that matter most of the GSC is trash on defense. I think Ferris wins but not in blowout fashion. 10-13 with the last score coming late.

I think Ferris wins by two scores. Their offense may not be what it was last year, but it’s very difficult to prepare for in a week. If Mines had two weeks to prepare I’d give them more of a chance. I also like the experience factor. Ferris is in familiar territory here.

[TheROCK]

We will never get rid of the bad taste the IUP Rule did to Frank until we get back to that level. I resent the rest of the league for what they did.

Just wait until they try to do it to Joe. It’s not fair we have a D1 arena and we dominate…so they will say.

I'm new to this site (about 2 months). Not sure I heard about the IUP rule. What is it? and on an unrelate note, Is there a setting that remembers the last message I viewed on a thread? I would like to open the tread a pickup right where I last read instead of starting at the beginning. Thanks

[IUPNation]

I'm new to this site (about 2 months). Not sure I heard about the IUP rule. What is it? and on an unrelate note, Is there a setting that remembers the last message I viewed on a thread? I would like to open the tread a pickup right where I last read instead of starting at the beginning. Thanks

1. The IUP Rule was passed in the mid 90’s to limit scholarships totals to 25 for teams in the Pee Sack. That was less than the D2 max. It was called the IUP Rule because in the early 90’s IUP was well funded for foosball (and nobody else was) and we bulldozed the league year after year. It was basically penalizing IUP for being too good and forcing us back down because the other schools couldn’t figure out how to rise up. It stayed in place for about 12 years until Mercyhurst and LIT AF joined the Pee Sack when it was dropped and schools were allowed to meet the D2 max. However in the years it was in place the Pee Sack tried to lobby for the D2 max to be cut to Pee Sack max levels which gave our league a bad reputation. The damage was done to IUP and it was successful in destroying our dominance.

2. There is a down arrow on the left of the thread title that appears when new posts appear since you last visited it. Click on it and it goes to the first new post

[IUPbigINDIANS]

1. The IUP Rule was passed in the mid 90’s to limit scholarships totals to 25 for teams in the Pee Sack. That was less than the D2 max. It was called the IUP Rule because in the early 90’s IUP was well funded for foosball (and nobody else was) and we bulldozed the league year after year. It was basically penalizing IUP for being too good and forcing us back down because the other schools couldn’t figure out how to rise up. It stayed in place for about 12 years until Mercyhurst and LIT AF joined the Pee Sack when it was dropped and schools were allowed to meet the D2 max. However in the years it was in place the Pee Sack tried to lobby for the D2 max to be cut to Pee Sack max levels which gave our league a bad reputation. The damage was done to IUP and it was successful in destroying our dominance.

2. There is a down arrow on the left of the thread title that appears when new posts appear since you last visited it. Click on it and it goes to the first new post

While the IUP Rule is unfortunately a part of our history, it would be nice to see a rule put in place that programs have to have a minimum number of scholarships to stay in the league -- say, at least 15 equivalencies.

I realize there are lots of loop holes in this equation (see: the Walks-Ons).

But, in reality, if your program can't get up to at least 15 equivalencies ... it's probably time to drop football or move down.

I've said forever, if you want to be a successful PSAC football coach, you better be top-notch at shaking hands and kissing babies -- and you better have a steady stream of coin flowing in to the football office. I'd go as far to say that you better be a better salesman than football coach. Money will buy you talented players who can often cover up some weaknesses in your coaching. However, low-budget players often cannot offset even great coaching when they are totally outmatched.

IUP went through back-to-back coaches who didn't thrive in fundraising (The Lou Tepper and Curt Cignetti). Both great technical coaches and X's and O's people, but in a league that requires you to raise your own scholarship money ... well, that wasn't their strong suit. Tepper hated it and Curt, well, wasn't the most likable guy in town.

[Fightingscot82]

25 was the only sport-specific limit - but there was also a total athletic scholarship limit as well. Matt Burglund ?

[Ram040506]

While the IUP Rule is unfortunately a part of our history, it would be nice to see a rule put in place that programs have to have a minimum number of scholarships to stay in the league -- say, at least 15 equivalencies.

I realize there are lots of loop holes in this equation (see: the Walks-Ons).

But, in reality, if your program can't get up to at least 15 equivalencies ... it's probably time to drop football or move down.

I've said forever, if you want to be a successful PSAC football coach, you better be top-notch at shaking hands and kissing babies -- and you better have a steady stream of coin flowing in to the football office. I'd go as far to say that you better be a better salesman than football coach. Money will buy you talented players who can often cover up some weaknesses in your coaching. However, low-budget players often cannot offset even great coaching when they are totally outmatched.

IUP went through back-to-back coaches who didn't thrive in fundraising (The Lou Tepper and Curt Cignetti). Both great technical coaches and X's and O's people, but in a league that requires you to raise your own scholarship money ... well, that wasn't their strong suit. Tepper hated it and Curt, well, wasn't the most likable guy in town.

Couldn't agree more. It's time a lot of this league look in the mirror and start working to actually TRY and field a competitive product (Lock Haven, Clarion) or just drop down to D3 already. A scholarship minimum for football should be mandatory. The IUP correction rule would have a nice ring to it.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Couldn't agree more. It's time a lot of this league look in the mirror and start working to actually TRY and field a competitive product (Lock Haven, Clarion) or just drop down to D3 already. A scholarship minimum for football should be mandatory. The IUP correction rule would have a nice ring to it.

The other part of it (that the PSAC diehards don't like to hear) is this league has so many bad football teams that all it really does is prop up our few good teams to appear much better than they actually are.