OT: PIAA Wrestling public vs. private

[iupgroundhog]

This past weekend I had the pleasure of watching the merged version of my old high school, now called Central Mountain, wrestle to a 3rd place finish at the PIAA AAA Dual Meet Championships in Hershey. The PIAA sold the rights to the dual and individual championships to Flowrestling, which is controversial in its own right. Regardless, with a subscription, I was able to watch all 5 dual meets CM wrestled. The team got knocked off in the semis by Bethlehem Catholic for the 2nd straight year, but was able to come back and win 2 consi matches for 3rd place.

While the tournament was interesting for me personally, that is not the point. The topic of private schools in PIAA football surfaced recently in the board but I think the issue is even more pronounced in wrestling (and maybe other sports).

Bethlehem Catholic won the AAA championship for the 3rd straight year. The way it stands today, it is not possible for a public school district to be competitive with a private school which is focused on recruiting the top wrestlers they can from across a wrestling-rich area. It's not a level playing field at all. It's apples and oranges.

On the AA level (smaller schools), it's even worse. The top 3 finishers were all private; Faith Christian Academy, Bishop McCort, and Notre Dame-Green Pond, in that order. So, it's really out of hand, at this point. The PIAA needs to take action. In wrestling, these schools could participate with like-minded schools for post-season tournaments. In PA, wrestling powerhouses like Wyoming Seminary and Malvern Prep participate in what is called the National Preps. Of course, the top prep teams recruit nationally, not regionally. There is also a state championship specifically for PA private schools, including not only the national powerhouses but schools like Germantown Academy, The Hill School, etc.

At present, it isn't a fair competition for these schools to compete against schools with geographically-defined residence requirements. It just isn't.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Has high school wrestling - within that community - got the same backlash as football?

I haven't seen the topic as much in the media (which isn't surprising as football rules the roost).

[iupgroundhog]

Has high school wrestling - within that community - got the same backlash as football?

I haven't seen the topic as much in the media (which isn't surprising as football rules the roost).

Yes. This past week's tournament brought the issue to the forefront even more. The weekend tournament included the best teams in the state but I saw a statistic that the private schools outscored publics by 10 to 1, overall, across all dual meets. So, it's a worsening situation.

[Fightingscot82]

I agree that the public vs. private issue really becomes a problem in the smaller classifications. There aren't very many large private high schools, and most of the A and AA public schools are in more modest earning communities struggling to maintain population. From a resources perspective, that's huge. You have Mr. Soandso who lives in the community and graduated from the same school 25 years ago coaching against a former NCAA All American who's an attorney by day. The only solutions I can see are separating public & private in the state playoffs or only allowing students whose permanent address is within a reasonable radius of the school.

[Ship69]

I had noticed that the privates seem to be giving more attention to wrestling of late. Harrisburg Bishop McDevitt has had good teams recently, which caught my interest because they were usually terrible when I covered wrestling matches in my area in the mid-'70s and early '80s. I suspect part of it is a desire to attract more tuition-paying students. St. Maria Goretti, a Hagerstown, Md., Catholic high school not far from where I live, recently announced they will close after this year. They've had a strong basketball program, which in recent years has played in the Baltimore Catholic League, but have not been big enough to sustain programs such as football and wrestling. In Pa., we obviously have some schools playing by one set of rules and others playing by another. This has been true for years. Whether the PIAA will ever have the guts to do anything about it is questionable. In the meantime, we'll continue to have some schools recruit and then crow about beating the publics in the playoffs.

[iupgroundhog]

I agree that the public vs. private issue really becomes a problem in the smaller classifications. There aren't very many large private high schools, and most of the A and AA public schools are in more modest earning communities struggling to maintain population. From a resources perspective, that's huge. You have Mr. Soandso who lives in the community and graduated from the same school 25 years ago coaching against a former NCAA All American who's an attorney by day. The only solutions I can see are separating public & private in the state playoffs or only allowing students whose permanent address is within a reasonable radius of the school.

And that is definitely doable in wrestling. There are a lot of private/parochial/prep schools in PA. The PA state "independent" wrestling championships are this coming weekend to be held at Germantown Academy. If Malvern Prep and Wyoming Seminary (the two top rated prep schools for wrestling in the country) can participate in that tournament then so can Bethlehem Catholic and the others. Note that Bethlehem Catholic and the 3 top AA schools I mentioned are religiously-affiliated so they are permitted to participate in PIAA championships but in terms of athletic competition they are no different than the non-religious prep schools. (I may be preaching to the choir.)

[Tdobson]

This past weekend I had the pleasure of watching the merged version of my old high school, now called Central Mountain, wrestle to a 3rd place finish at the PIAA AAA Dual Meet Championships in Hershey. The PIAA sold the rights to the dual and individual championships to Flowrestling, which is controversial in its own right. Regardless, with a subscription, I was able to watch all 5 dual meets CM wrestled. The team got knocked off in the semis by Bethlehem Catholic for the 2nd straight year, but was able to come back and win 2 consi matches for 3rd place.

While the tournament was interesting for me personally, that is not the point. The topic of private schools in PIAA football surfaced recently in the board but I think the issue is even more pronounced in wrestling (and maybe other sports).

Bethlehem Catholic won the AAA championship for the 3rd straight year. The way it stands today, it is not possible for a public school district to be competitive with a private school which is focused on recruiting the top wrestlers they can from across a wrestling-rich area. It's not a level playing field at all. It's apples and oranges.

On the AA level (smaller schools), it's even worse. The top 3 finishers were all private; Faith Christian Academy, Bishop McCort, and Notre Dame-Green Pond, in that order. So, it's really out of hand, at this point. The PIAA needs to take action. In wrestling, these schools could participate with like-minded schools for post-season tournaments. In PA, wrestling powerhouses like Wyoming Seminary and Malvern Prep participate in what is called the National Preps. Of course, the top prep teams recruit nationally, not regionally. There is also a state championship specifically for PA private schools, including not only the national powerhouses but schools like Germantown Academy, The Hill School, etc.

At present, it isn't a fair competition for these schools to compete against schools with geographically-defined residence requirements. It just isn't.

If I may ask, what schools merged to form central mountain and when did they merge?

Just wondering I love hearing about historical schools in pa.

[IUPNation]

If there are separate classifications for public and private...who gets to claim to be the best in the state?

Does the public school only get the boast about being the best public school in the sport?

[iupgroundhog]

If I may ask, what schools merged to form central mountain and when did they merge?

Just wondering I love hearing about historical schools in pa.

Central Mountain is actually 25 years old now. It was a merger of Lock Haven, the smaller Bald Eagle-Nittany and the tiny Sugar Valley. There is also Bucktail, which is in Renovo, 25 miles up river from Lock Haven. Bucktail maintains a separate high school, due to the distance, but is part of the district. Actually, it's all part of the county-wide Keystone Central School District, which dates to about 1970. It is the largest school district in Pennsylvania, by geography (square miles). It's a testament to IUPNation's philosophy of school district mergers.

[iupgroundhog]

If there are separate classifications for public and private...who gets to claim to be the best in the state?

Does the public school only get the boast about being the best public school in the sport?

I get what you are asking but I think it is way beyond that question now.

Like I said, it's a matter of having a level playing field. If a PSAC team wins the PSAC state game, do they say they are the best college football team in Pennsylvania?

[IUPNation]

I get what you are asking but I think it is way beyond that question now.

Like I said, it's a matter of having a level playing field. If a PSAC team wins the PSAC state game, do they say they are the best college football team in Pennsylvania?

But the boasting is part of sports...so how do they both get to boast?

[iupgroundhog]

But the boasting is part of sports...so how do they both get to boast?

They both do because they beat their competition in both cases. I don't get the boasting, at this point, if you are Bethlehem Catholic in wrestling or even SJP in football. So, you beat the other teams but you have a distinct advantage to start with. Level the competition - that's why we have salary caps in professional sports, shared revenue agreements, etc.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

But the boasting is part of sports...so how do they both get to boast?

It's a mess.

Say they do someday go private and public as separate leagues. Imagine the cherry picking that will go on. We think this alleged recruiting is nuts now ... just wait until the line in the sand is drawn.

The vast majority of public schools 'playing the hand they are dealt' cannot compete with recruited all-star teams.

For example, just pray your 3A public school isn't right beside Pittsburgh Central Catholic.

[Fightingscot82]

Central Mountain is actually 25 years old now. It was a merger of Lock Haven, the smaller Bald Eagle-Nittany and the tiny Sugar Valley. There is also Bucktail, which is in Renovo, 25 miles up river from Lock Haven. Bucktail maintains a separate high school, due to the distance, but is part of the district. Actually, it's all part of the county-wide Keystone Central School District, which dates to about 1970. It is the largest school district in Pennsylvania, by geography (square miles). It's a testament to IUPNation's philosophy of school district mergers.

I was hoping Renovo would have got that huge federally funded gas facility that would have pretty much rebirthed that town.

[IUPNation]

They both do because they beat their competition in both cases. I don't get the boasting, at this point, if you are Bethlehem Catholic in wrestling or even SJP in football. So, you beat the other teams but you have a distinct advantage to start with. Level the competition - that's why we have salary caps in professional sports, shared revenue agreements, etc.

Well it's been a part of sports for years.

When I was in high school and there were no state playoffs for foosball...all you heard were the schools in Western PA were the best and that schools in the Philly region were not even close.

Yet...that myth got blown out of the wooder when they did in fact have state playoffs in foosball.