ETBU to the GAC?

[Mavchamp]

I'm not sure if anyone has followed the implosion of the American Southwest Conference (D3) that gas seen 8 members move to other D3 conferences and abandoning East Texas Baptist, Howard Payne, Hardin Simmons, and Mary Hardin Baylor.

There simply isn't anywhere for the four to go in D3. There is a long shot of merging with a Southern California conference... but it just doesn't make $$ or geographic sense.

Rumor has it UMHB could be headed to FCS. Hardin Simmons is looking at the LSC and Howard Payne is looking at the NAIA.

ETBU has been mum.....but I've been told they aren't keen on going NAIA.

That leaves D2.

While the LSC makes sense in name only..... geographically for ETBU, it would be a nightmare situation with travel.

However the GAC....even though it's centered in Arkansas makes a LOT more sense geographically. GAC schools are significantly closer than almost all of the LSC schools.

Question is..... would the GAC even entertain adding a school in north east Texas?

With an enrollment of about 2000.... ETBU would be on the lower end of things in the GAC. Football has been mediocre most of its existence . Softball and volleyball are natioanlly ranked more often than not. Both mens and women's basketball have made some good runs in the tournament recently.

Just curious as to what the GAC and its members would think of adding one to the fold.

Like I said... the GAC makes 1000 times more sense travel-wise than the LSC..... seems ETBU fits the culture of theGAC moreso than the LSC as well.

Thoughts?

[crixus]

Regarding East Texas Baptist moving up to D2 and joining the Great American Conference, I agree that it's a good idea logistically.

The East Coast Football Conference (D3) currently has four members, but it will be down to only one in 2025. Just the Gallaudet Bison of Washington, DC. Hopefully they'll find a new conference or they'll have to go the independent route.

[ESU Warrior]

The East Coast Football Conference (D3) currently has four members, but it will be down to only one in 2025. Just the Gallaudet Bison of Washington, DC. Hopefully they'll find a new conference or they'll have to go the independent route.

If I'm the MEC commisioner I am looking into them

[EastStroud13]

Much respect to Gallaudet and what they're able to accomplish but I have NO idea how they'd be able to sustain play in D2.

[crixus]

Much respect to Gallaudet and what they're able to accomplish but I have NO idea how they'd be able to sustain play in D2.

Agreed, and I'm pretty sure Gallaudet wants to stay at D3. They won the ECFC Championship in 2022. I think they'll get picked up by another D3 conference.

[Finchwidget]

I agree that ETBU to the GAC would make more sense than the LSC, from ETBUs perspective. I'm not sure the GAC would take them, though. They have a pretty good setup right now with an even 12 schools, equally split across Arkansas and Oklahoma. Everyone plays each other, and everyone has a full schedule, and everyone's happy that way (from an administration perspective, at least... Maybe not for the fans). I think the Arkansas schools founded the GAC in part because they wanted that assurance that they would all be able to play each other annually in-conference. All this to say though is that I don't really think ETBU moves the needle enough for the GAC to consider moving away from the setup they have right now. The GAC faithful can correct me if I'm wrong, but at the very least I think they'd probably need some kind of travel partner so the GAC wouldn't be going to an odd number of teams. Interesting perspective though, I was curious about how things were looking for the outcast ASC schools. Best of luck to you!

[Bisonfan from FLA]

I agree that ETBU to the GAC would make more sense than the LSC, from ETBUs perspective. I'm not sure the GAC would take them, though. They have a pretty good setup right now with an even 12 schools, equally split across Arkansas and Oklahoma. Everyone plays each other, and everyone has a full schedule, and everyone's happy that way (from an administration perspective, at least... Maybe not for the fans). I think the Arkansas schools founded the GAC in part because they wanted that assurance that they would all be able to play each other annually in-conference. All this to say though is that I don't really think ETBU moves the needle enough for the GAC to consider moving away from the setup they have right now. The GAC faithful can correct me if I'm wrong, but at the very least I think they'd probably need some kind of travel partner so the GAC wouldn't be going to an odd number of teams. Interesting perspective though, I was curious about how things were looking for the outcast ASC schools. Best of luck to you!

I wonder about what may be down the road for the Gulf South, specifically for Delta State and Mississippi College.It looks as if some of the GSC might be moving up to and out of D2 so where does that leave DSU and MC? They are physically close to the Arkansas teams and they may be needing a place to call home.

But that would create an imbalance on the Eastern side of the Arkansas/Oklahoma GAC footprint. To remedy that, what if NE Oklahoma or Central Oklahoma left from the MIAA and then ETBU came in to balance that Western side of the Arkansas/Oklahoma GAC footprint? Now the GAC covers four states, has 16 teams, can create a non-silo schedule and have a championship game between the two halves of the conference.

Thoughts?

[Finchwidget]

I wonder about what may be down the road for the Gulf South, specifically for Delta State and Mississippi College.It looks as if some of the GSC might be moving up to and out of D2 so where does that leave DSU and MC? They are physically close to the Arkansas teams and they may be needing a place to call home.

But that would create an imbalance on the Eastern side of the Arkansas/Oklahoma GAC footprint. To remedy that, what if NE Oklahoma or Central Oklahoma left from the MIAA and then ETBU came in to balance that Western side of the Arkansas/Oklahoma GAC footprint? Now the GAC covers four states, has 16 teams, can create a non-silo schedule and have a championship game between the two halves of the conference.

Thoughts?

I considered the fact that GSC football is beginning to implode, and DSU, MC, and maybe even UWA might shack up with the GAC. However, the GSC is fine from an Olympic sports point of view, so if anything I think that DSU, MC, and UWA might come on as football affiliates. ETBU coming on board would still give the GAC an uneven 13 for all non-football sports.

Your scenario is pretty intriguing though. Northeastern State has been bad for a while now, and recently left the MIAA in football to try and improve themselves as an independent. Joining the GAC and facing the other Oklahoma schools could give them a chance to improve themselves against teams at a similar skill level, as well as maybe reinvigorate fan interest by playing other in-state schools. I'm skeptical UCO would want to move though.

[OBUGrad]

I wonder about what may be down the road for the Gulf South, specifically for Delta State and Mississippi College.It looks as if some of the GSC might be moving up to and out of D2 so where does that leave DSU and MC? They are physically close to the Arkansas teams and they may be needing a place to call home.

But that would create an imbalance on the Eastern side of the Arkansas/Oklahoma GAC footprint. To remedy that, what if NE Oklahoma or Central Oklahoma left from the MIAA and then ETBU came in to balance that Western side of the Arkansas/Oklahoma GAC footprint? Now the GAC covers four states, has 16 teams, can create a non-silo schedule and have a championship game between the two halves of the conference.

Thoughts?

Delta State would love to join the GAC. Don’t know about the others.

[Mavchamp]

In my opinion...a school the size of ETBU (aprox 2,000) has the best opportunity to flourish in athletics in D3. But it's clear that there simply isn't a conference availible in D3 that makes geographical sense.

The only real D3 option is a merger with 5-6 California schools, which is a travel nightmare.

I don't look down on the NAIA....there are some really good athletes and programs there...but it simply doesn't have the appeal of the NCAA.

That leaves D2....which basically means the Lone Star Conference or the GAC.


The LSC is mostly made up of schools all significatly larger than ETBU:

UT Dallas 31,570
Texas Women's (Denton) 12,465
Angelo State (San Angelo) 10,447
West Texas A&M (Canyon) 10,169
A&M Kingsville 8,783
UT Permian (Odessa) 7,628
Midwestern State (Whichita Falls) 6,093
Eastern New Mexico (Portales) 5,574
St. Edwards (Austin) 5,500
Cameron (Lawton)- 5,449
Dallas Baptist- 5,500
UT Tyler 5,300
St. Mary's (San Antonio) 4,500
Texas A&M International (Loredo) 4,298
Western New Mexico (Silver City) 3,820
Oklahoma Christian (OKC) 2,479
Lubbock Christian 2,100
Sul Ross (Alpine) 2,070
ETBU 2,031

Most of the GAC is larger too....but to a lesser degree.

Arkansas Tech: 12,000
Harding: 6,000
SW Oklahoma: 5,100
Southern Arkansas: 4,100
UA Monticello: 3,600
Henderson State: 3,500
Oklahoma Baptist: 2,000
ETBU: 1,900
Ouachita Baptist: 1,500

Not to mention the travel in the LSC would be SIGNIFICATLY more in the LSC than the GAC. Most of the LSC is centered west of the metroplex.....more towards Abilene/Midland/Odessa than all the way down into south Texas. Almost all of the schools in the LSC are 7 or more hours or more away from ETBU.

Meanwhile...most of the GAC is within 5 hours or less.

Another thing to think about is recruiting. Most of the LSC is located in larger cities of 100,000 or more. Abilene, Odessa, San Angelo, Lubbck, Austin, San Antonio, Denton, Tyler.

Marshall has a population of 25,000 and is more rural.

But with the GAC..... the cities they are located in are more similar to Marshall. Arkadelphia, Russellville, Ada, Searcy, etc....all similar in size. Definately levels the recruiting field tremendously.

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I have no idea if ETBU has aspirations of D2. I don't see how they couldn't at this point. But if they do...... the GAC is definitely an attractive choice on many levels. Just hope ETBU is attractive to the GAC and its membership.

[Mulerider]

Would love to see another school come into the GAC. It's about time! Oklahoma Panhandle State was supposed to join I beleive at one time, but not sure what happended. Many people have said before, that UAFS in Fort Smith, AR was trying to get into the GAC, but the GAC didn't want to accept them at the time because they didn't have a Football program. Now, I wouldn't mind having them in or at least consider it. Additionally, Delta State makes a lot of sense, but they are also a powerhouse in the GSC. I don't see the other two MIAA OK schools wanting to leave, but I know the GAC would most likley take them if they could.

[OldBison]

The only thing that makes sense for GAC expansion is adding two the GSC teams in Mississippi.

[OldBison]

Only scenario going forward that makes sense for the expansion of GAC football is one that includes the addition of the two GSC schools in Mississippi. For that to happen several other things would have to occur (I.e. collapse of the GSC due to VSU and WF leaving for FCS, some OK schools leaving, some schools in OK, Missouri, KS adding to make the GSC a 12-14 team conference with two divisions). Lot’s of moving parts. Don’t seeing it happening anytime soon.

[huntnfish]

Why wouldn't they just go to the LSC?

[Mavchamp]

Why wouldn't they just go to the LSC?

Geographically they are significantly closer to the schools in the GAC than they are almost all of the schools in the LSC.

Not even really close….. LSC would double travel costs compared to the GAC.