Northwood Exit and Expansion Discussion

[Irishlaker]

To give you an idea of how bad it is for the GLIAC with this mass exodus, I just noticed that GVSU is playing a D3 opponent in Wisconsin-La Crosse. Honestly, let's just go D1/D1-FCS.

This game has been discussed out here already. Kle summed it up well: We were in a bind w/ Ashland bailing, and we didn't need three straight roadies including a UP trip. While I'm not a fan of it and I have no idea how hard we did or didn't work to try and fill this with a D2 game, I find it hilarious that this is somehow another reason to go D1.

Since you seem to think it's so simple, I'll go out and stand by the mailbox and wait for the check you're going to send to cover all of the expenses tied to this. You can send us the big one to get things started on facility upgrades, and another one each year to cover the additional schollies, staff salaries, and additional travel we would incur. You can also cover the shortfalls we would see in reduced attendance because we play teams no one cares about and because we don't win as much, and you can also backfill the marketing budget that would need help because we aren't competing for national titles anymore.

Brilliant...

[Runnin' Cat]

I'm not sure what I was looking at, haha. I looked at the schedule (which just had one men's result) and the all-time NCAA results (which doesn't have any women's listings since 2008) and thought they just didn't have a women's team. Looks like they just have not been as successful lately lol.

Yeah, going to NCs the last several years and having two individual NC pales to winning the men's titles a few years in a row...

NAU is a powerhouse in XC. The latest staff ahs been there since 2016 and just recently made big inroads on the women's side.

[KleShreen]

Yes, NAU has a women's XC team:

2020 Cross Country Roster - Northern Arizona University Athletics (nauathletics.com)

They have had 18 NC appearances.

The reason that there has been no "dominate" teams is that the sport has incredible parity. GV might be able to get to NCs, but they would not dominate.

I'm not sure what I was looking at, haha. I looked at the schedule (which just had one men's result) and the all-time NCAA results (which doesn't have any women's listings since 2008) and thought they just didn't have a women's team. Looks like they just have not been as successful lately lol.

[Runnin' Cat]

Sorry, I should have been more clear. NAU is dominating the men's XC in D1. They don't have a women's team. GV's women have been dominating XC in D2. There really is no dominant force in women's D1 XC. The GV women could easily take that spot. Men's XC, the GV men won the title in 2018. They are always near the top of the standings. They could easily become championship contenders and contend regularly.

I'm just pointing out that XC is a sport where really any school can win titles in D1. It's not normally limited to only power conference schools or the D1 blue bloods like Alabama and Michigan and Stanford and UCLA and North Carolina and whatnot, as most other sports are. Anyone can win national titles in D1 XC.

Yes, NAU has a women's XC team:

2020 Cross Country Roster - Northern Arizona University Athletics (nauathletics.com)

They have had 18 NC appearances.

The reason that there has been no "dominate" teams is that the sport has incredible parity. GV might be able to get to NCs, but they would not dominate.

[KleShreen]

Youngstown St was open, could have been a test to see how GVSU compared to FCS for reference.

GV wasn't gonna go travel somewhere else the week before having to go to the UP, and have three straight away games. They already have to go to the UP twice this season, would be silly to add another away game to the schedule.

[D2Ohio]

They needed a replacement for Ashland on short notice.

Youngstown St was open, could have been a test to see how GVSU compared to FCS for reference.

[KleShreen]

To give you an idea of how bad it is for the GLIAC with this mass exodus, I just noticed that GVSU is playing a D3 opponent in Wisconsin-La Crosse. Honestly, let's just go D1/D1-FCS.

They needed a replacement for Ashland on short notice.

[BeachinLaker]

To give you an idea of how bad it is for the GLIAC with this mass exodus, I just noticed that GVSU is playing a D3 opponent in Wisconsin-La Crosse. Honestly, let's just go D1/D1-FCS.

[D2Ohio]

Not gonna lie, that Pioneer idea is not the craziest, and it could add some interesting matchups. I think Michigan Tech is playing St. Thomas this year, so I guess we could see how it could look there. The only hangup is that due to the isolated nature of the Pioneer schools, some in DII may not want to work with them. This is anecdotal, but when I went to Uindy, the main reason that the AD gave for not scheduling cross town opponent Butler was that Uindy would 1. wipe the floor with a no scholarship team, akin to playing a D3. 2. Butler (and the other D1s) think they are somehow above to "too good" to lower themselves to play a D2.

Butler is playing Taylor and Depauw this year.
Drake, Morehead, & Valpo usually play down a time or two a year.
St T is also playing St F (IL) in addition to M Tech
Dayton played Central St in '16

The other five non-midwest would balk at this.
I think that San Diego should just see about getting into the Big Sky and remain non-scholly.

[Uindy18]

Yikes, if they get down to the public six football playing, they will need to find a scheduling alliance, or double up with H&H

If there was not a counter for playing within division, a far fetched idea would be convince the 6 midwest Pioneer schools to play weeks 4&5

Not gonna lie, that Pioneer idea is not the craziest, and it could add some interesting matchups. I think Michigan Tech is playing St. Thomas this year, so I guess we could see how it could look there. The only hangup is that due to the isolated nature of the Pioneer schools, some in DII may not want to work with them. This is anecdotal, but when I went to Uindy, the main reason that the AD gave for not scheduling cross town opponent Butler was that Uindy would 1. wipe the floor with a no scholarship team, akin to playing a D3. 2. Butler (and the other D1s) think they are somehow above to "too good" to lower themselves to play a D2.

[D2Ohio]

For that reason, I would say the GLIAC should not pursue any private school to join the conference. Every single one that joined has left. All remaining members (minus Davenport) are public universities and it's only a matter of time before Davenport departs as well. From what I've heard, they're hurting financially. Throwing money at the athletic program to compete with GVSU can only last so long.

Yikes, if they get down to the public six football playing, they will need to find a scheduling alliance, or double up with H&H

If there was not a counter for playing within division, a far fetched idea would be convince the 6 midwest Pioneer schools to play weeks 4&5

[Uindy18]

For that reason, I would say the GLIAC should not pursue any private school to join the conference. Every single one that joined has left. All remaining members (minus Davenport) are public universities and it's only a matter of time before Davenport departs as well. From what I've heard, they're hurting financially. Throwing money at the athletic program to compete with GVSU can only last so long.

I understand the idea, but who does that leave? There are just no good public options for expansion in the GLIAC footprint.

[BeachinLaker]

Agree. With Hillsdale and Northwood in the GMAC, there is every reason to believe that Davenport is a future possibility and that IF private MI NAIAs want to go D2, they will strongly consider the GMAC.

For that reason, I would say the GLIAC should not pursue any private school to join the conference. Every single one that joined has left. All remaining members (minus Davenport) are public universities and it's only a matter of time before Davenport departs as well. From what I've heard, they're hurting financially. Throwing money at the athletic program to compete with GVSU can only last so long.

[Irishlaker]

I'm with Irish on this one. Let the P5 go have their fun.

In terms of positioning within the divisions, I've always felt that the football playing members of the GLIAC are too big for D2, but would get pounced in the existing D1. Assuming the G5, FCS, and non-football conferences merge to form a new D1, I would love to see the football schools create a Michigan conference with Eastern, Western, and Central while the non-football schools could either remain in D2 or join the Horizon.

One can dream, I guess.

It'd be something, wouldn't it? I mean, this is totally living in fantasyland but imagine a league that looked like this:

Ferris
Central
Saginaw
Eastern
Wayne
Toledo
Bowling Green
Western
Davenport
Grand Valley

This could be simply a football conference, but it'd be one heckuva league in total. Every trip is under 4 hours. Undergrad enrollments are well-aligned (Saggy and DU are a bit light, GV is a tad heavy). A couple of research institutions, etc. DU is the only private, but they aren't the same sort of private that everyone thinks of...in truth, they honestly might bear a closer resemblance to this list than they would a list of typical D2-style privates (heavy on-line and non-traditional enrollment, 10 campuses, etc.). And, they are comparatively well funded.

Again, it's fantasyland but once we are in a post-P5 world, who knows what's possible?

I agree with the idea that GLIAC expansion at this moment seems like an uphill climb. Given what we have seen over the last few years, I'm hard-pressed to see how some of the candidates mentioned (Larry Tech, Madonna, Siena, et al) would consider the GLIAC ahead of the GMAC...and that's tied to the presumption that any of them are actually looking to move up. RW is right that these moves (if the GLIAC were serious about them) should have been in motion a while ago.

[Uindy18]

Agree. With Hillsdale and Northwood in the GMAC, there is every reason to believe that Davenport is a future possibility and that IF private MI NAIAs want to go D2, they will strongly consider the GMAC.

Fair, on the GLIAC side, i have to think that the pitch will be "Look at how well Davenport transitioned over from NAIA in our conference. You can do the same here."" I am not so sure the GMAC would be an option for those schools if they wanted to make a jump as they do not really need the new members.