Northwood Exit and Expansion Discussion

[KleShreen]

yea we can travel a long ways to get some games but thats pricey for sure and then do they want to play us at home? Not nearby teams is the issue...if it was the GMAC or GLVC sure...lets go...but west coast? deep south? East coast? Those are all plane rides...$$$$$$ but so it moving up...who knows...that the problem for the folks that get paid to figure it out not the fans on a message board...FCS football is no joke either...they have some great teams in that deal...NDSU will be back as always...I guess we will see but for now its kind of fun to look forward and see what shakes out.

I have no doubt football would be just fine playing FCS football if it comes to that. My worry is every other sport becoming irrelevant.

Football would perform just fine in FCS. But are GR people going to care about GV playing against Eastern Illinois and Illinois State and Butler? About the only time anyone would care about their games anymore would be playoff games against our former D-II rivals like NDSU and UND, I think. There'd be zero rivalries anymore, and no opponents that the layman fan would have ever heard of. But they would perform just fine. Just all the other sports, I would feel awful about.

[champgymusa]

There's plenty of schools elsewhere constantly looking for dates. Whether they are down south, whether they are in New England (which, admittedly, is harder, because they're all packed in there so they have plenty of options), or even the HBCU's.

I don't know. I'd just prefer to do anything and everything possible to remain in D-II. I don't know why many people (not saying you, just in general) are constantly clamoring for GV to go D1 and just be a minnow in a pond of sharks, while getting destroyed financially. FCS, IMO, is the worst level to be at, because your most important sport, football, is spending more money to play against schools that nobody has any familiarity with, while the rest of your sports are forced to go up against the kings of the D1 level and will never compete for a title again. You can throw out any and all hope of any national titles ever being won by any sports besides maybe cross country, and football at the FCS level. Can football winning FCS titles pull in enough recognition and money to make it worth it? I don't know. Everything else will just be competing for mid-major conference championships where you then get destroyed in the national tournament by schools with infinitely more resources. That's why I always have, and always will, hate the entire idea of being D1 at all.

yea we can travel a long ways to get some games but thats pricey for sure and then do they want to play us at home? Not nearby teams is the issue...if it was the GMAC or GLVC sure...lets go...but west coast? deep south? East coast? Those are all plane rides...$$$$$$ but so it moving up...who knows...that the problem for the folks that get paid to figure it out not the fans on a message board...FCS football is no joke either...they have some great teams in that deal...NDSU will be back as always...I guess we will see but for now its kind of fun to look forward and see what shakes out.

[KleShreen]

Ashland leaving caused the hole...and next year its Northwood...if you have a list of teams that want to play GVSU nearby please forward same to Doug Lapinski as I am sure he would love the help. It's not plug and play. Most over conferences are all set...NOT the GLIAC which is why I can see the move up...not saying its the only plan but I am open to suggestions?

There's plenty of schools elsewhere constantly looking for dates. Whether they are down south, whether they are in New England (which, admittedly, is harder, because they're all packed in there so they have plenty of options), or even the HBCU's.

I don't know. I'd just prefer to do anything and everything possible to remain in D-II. I don't know why many people (not saying you, just in general) are constantly clamoring for GV to go D1 and just be a minnow in a pond of sharks, while getting destroyed financially. FCS, IMO, is the worst level to be at, because your most important sport, football, is spending more money to play against schools that nobody has any familiarity with, while the rest of your sports are forced to go up against the kings of the D1 level and will never compete for a title again. You can throw out any and all hope of any national titles ever being won by any sports besides maybe cross country, and football at the FCS level. Can football winning FCS titles pull in enough recognition and money to make it worth it? I don't know. Everything else will just be competing for mid-major conference championships where you then get destroyed in the national tournament by schools with infinitely more resources. That's why I always have, and always will, hate the entire idea of being D1 at all.

[champgymusa]

The D3 opponent is strictly because of a late decision to leave from Findlay, if I'm not mistaken. I doubt that will become the norm. And I don't think we'll (usually) see GLIAC teams playing each other twice. The GNAC does it because they are out on an island in terms of surrounding D2 institutions to play against. There's plenty of other D2 schools for the GLIAC to play in out-of-conference games nearby.

Ashland leaving caused the hole...and next year its Northwood...if you have a list of teams that want to play GVSU nearby please forward same to Doug Lapinski as I am sure he would love the help. It's not plug and play. Most over conferences are all set...NOT the GLIAC which is why I can see the move up...not saying its the only plan but I am open to suggestions?

[KleShreen]

I think GVSU will give the GLIAC a few months to try and find a replacement for Northwood and or Ashland...once the reality of playing the same team twice and a D3 team next year sinks in you will see GVSU leave the GLIAC for the Ohio Valley Conference in football and the Horizon league for the remaning sports. In FBS GVSU has the facilites to join right now and it is very doable with really only football costing much more money...scholarships are moving internal money around but travel and staff costs would increase of course. I am open to what the other options are but dont tell me that playing GLIAC teams twice in a year is a good plan. Also D3 games? really? Yea for this year fine but this is NOT what the standard at GVSU is used to. I can see the alumni becoming very vocal with this. And quickly!

The D3 opponent is strictly because of a late decision to leave from Findlay, if I'm not mistaken. I doubt that will become the norm. And I don't think we'll (usually) see GLIAC teams playing each other twice. The GNAC does it because they are out on an island in terms of surrounding D2 institutions to play against. There's plenty of other D2 schools for the GLIAC to play in out-of-conference games nearby.

[Redwing]

OVC has one affiliate member school, that is Chattanooga for beach volleyball, I'd predict if they go FCS, it is MVFC. Agree on Horizon for other sports.

I have no idea, but MV is one tough conference. Its members seem a lot further away. Educate me.. how does OVC having one affiliate member impact MV being a more likely option for GV to go?

[champgymusa]

OVC has one affiliate member school, that is Chattanooga for beach volleyball, I'd predict if they go FCS, it is MVFC. Agree on Horizon for other sports.

True but the Ohio Valley just lost some members and I think GVSU would be a nice addition...if indeed thats the way they go...at this point who knows...going to be an interesting few months ahead I bet...just glad to be able to go back to Lubbers and fill the joint up!!

[D2Ohio]

.... you will see GVSU leave the GLIAC for the Ohio Valley Conference in football and the Horizon league for the remaning sports....

OVC has one affiliate member school, that is Chattanooga for beach volleyball, I'd predict if they go FCS, it is MVFC. Agree on Horizon for other sports.

[MrsThortonMelon]

I think GVSU will give the GLIAC a few months to try and find a replacement for Northwood and or Ashland...once the reality of playing the same team twice and a D3 team next year sinks in you will see GVSU leave the GLIAC for the Ohio Valley Conference in football and the Horizon league for the remaning sports. In FBS GVSU has the facilites to join right now and it is very doable with really only football costing much more money...scholarships are moving internal money around but travel and staff costs would increase of course. I am open to what the other options are but dont tell me that playing GLIAC teams twice in a year is a good plan. Also D3 games? really? Yea for this year fine but this is NOT what the standard at GVSU is used to. I can see the alumni becoming very vocal with this. And quickly!

[KleShreen]

UIndy18 pointed out that I was referring to within the Purdue system, not the entire state. My initial question was whether or not the Purdue main campus in West Lafayette would've even allowed PNW to sponsor D2 football, so I guess I wasn't clear with my question.

Ah, my bad.

[Uindy18]

UIndy18 pointed out that I was referring to within the Purdue system, not the entire state. My initial question was whether or not the Purdue main campus in West Lafayette would've even allowed PNW to sponsor D2 football, so I guess I wasn't clear with my question.

Yeah, my best guess would be that they could if they wanted to and had the money, but they are unlikely to want to or have the funding.

[ctrabs74]

Indiana, Ball State, Notre Dame, Purdue in FBS. Indiana State in FCS. UIndy in D2 all are scholarship programs.

UIndy18 pointed out that I was referring to within the Purdue system, not the entire state. My initial question was whether or not the Purdue main campus in West Lafayette would've even allowed PNW to sponsor D2 football, so I guess I wasn't clear with my question.

[D2Ohio]

I am really surprised there were not more defunct schools as result of COVID. The main one I heard of was Urbana in Ohio, which I had always pegged as an eventual GMAC member as well. That adds to my confusion about the Northwood move, with budgets getting tighter than they ever have been across all of NCAA/NAIA, why sign up to raise your travel costs significantly and assumedly pay entrance and exit fees to move to the GMAC?

Urbana had been a shell of a university for years, surprised they lasted as long as they did, no one was counting on them for long term stability

[KleShreen]

I have been reading some of the comments and to be honest I find some of them idiotic to say the least.

GVSU can only prop up a conference for so long? Only GVSU, Ashland and Ferris State have won national titles recently.

In regards to that comment, how many conferences have multiple schools in contention to win national titles across all sports? I can think of a lot of conferences that don't have a single program in contention to win a singe national title in any sport. The GLIAC, up until Ashland's departure, had contenders to win in multiple sports from multiple schools. Even now, GVSU is not the only program that can contend to win a title across all sports. (Also, don't forget WSU did win a national title in women's swimming within the last 10 years).

The GLIAC, simply put, is not as strong as it has been in the past, but it is not a weak conference either. I still think, head to head across all sports, top to bottom, the GLIAC would do just fine in all sports compared with all other D2 conferences. If you put the entire GLIAC in each sport against the same number of programs from each other conference, the GLIAC would fare just fine. Maybe the GLIAC would not be the top conference, but it certainly would be in the top 25%.

Also, to use recent results as an example. GLIAC Track and Field is much more than a 1 team conference. Certainly GVSU has the depth nobody else does, but other schools produced individual champions at the meet. SVSU had three, women's 4 by 400 relay, men's decathlon and women's heptathlon. Heck SVSU also had a top 5 team finish on the women's side.

The GLIAC isn't as healthy as it has been, but it isn't as bad off as people think either.

Even as it pertains to track and field, GVSU is a bit one-dimensional. They are focused on long distance events more than anything, with a handful of field athletes sprinkled in. And I think that is the economic way to do things, because it allows for three-sport athletes. You can find kids who are amazing at cross country, indoor track, and outdoor track, if they are long distance kids. That's what GV dominates in for track and field, and then they find 1 or 2 throwers, a pole vaulter, and then a couple jumpers and sprinters to try and steal a few points here and there. But distance is where their bread is buttered, without a doubt, on both men's and women's sides. It is interesting, because Tiffin and Ashland have both done the same thing the opposite way and won national championships. Tiffin was loaded up on sprinters and some field athletes. Ashland loaded up on sprinters and mid-range runners and have always dominated throws. But no school is usually amazing at every aspect of the track and field events, you gotta kind of pick and choose what you want to focus on, and GV does what they do amazingly well. Baltes, IMO, is the best coach in any sport at any level in the entire country. I would take Baltes as a T&F coach over anyone else in any other sport. GV is fortunate that he keeps sticking around and might be a lifer.

The unfortunate thing with the GLIAC right now is that in years past, the schools that left didn't really hurt the overall performance of the conference. It wasn't a big loss to lose Walsh and Malone. It wasn't a big loss to lose Findlay. If anything, it was cutting the fat and making the conference tougher, because the fodder was leaving while the contenders were staying. But then when you have Hillsdale and Ashland both leave, that torpedoes that whole idea. If the GLIAC was just left with GV, Ashland, Ferris, Northwood, SVSU, MTU, NMU, Wayne, Hillsdale? That's a helluva conference no matter what sport. But when you take out all of Ashland, Northwood, Hillsdale, and replace them with Davenport, Purdue-Fort Wayne, and Parkside? Then things don't look too hot anymore. We'll see what happens with Davenport's progression, though. Could they be a comparable replacement for Ashland going forward across all sports? I have my doubts with them and GV being in the same area, but we'll see what happens. The GLIAC isn't in great shape, but I also don't think it's nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Losing Ashland is going to be the biggest blow, but the GLIAC issue is more a situation of just not having enough schools sponsoring each sport, more so than it is an issue with the talent level. I think as long as you have GV, Ferris, SVSU, Wayne, MTU, and NMU, you're going to have one of the highest levels of competition in the country.

[chapmaja]

I have been reading some of the comments and to be honest I find some of them idiotic to say the least.

GVSU can only prop up a conference for so long? Only GVSU, Ashland and Ferris State have won national titles recently.

In regards to that comment, how many conferences have multiple schools in contention to win national titles across all sports? I can think of a lot of conferences that don't have a single program in contention to win a singe national title in any sport. The GLIAC, up until Ashland's departure, had contenders to win in multiple sports from multiple schools. Even now, GVSU is not the only program that can contend to win a title across all sports. (Also, don't forget WSU did win a national title in women's swimming within the last 10 years).

The GLIAC, simply put, is not as strong as it has been in the past, but it is not a weak conference either. I still think, head to head across all sports, top to bottom, the GLIAC would do just fine in all sports compared with all other D2 conferences. If you put the entire GLIAC in each sport against the same number of programs from each other conference, the GLIAC would fare just fine. Maybe the GLIAC would not be the top conference, but it certainly would be in the top 25%.

Also, to use recent results as an example. GLIAC Track and Field is much more than a 1 team conference. Certainly GVSU has the depth nobody else does, but other schools produced individual champions at the meet. SVSU had three, women's 4 by 400 relay, men's decathlon and women's heptathlon. Heck SVSU also had a top 5 team finish on the women's side.

The GLIAC isn't as healthy as it has been, but it isn't as bad off as people think either.