WT Football

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

1. "Middle of nowhere" is a matter of perspective.
3. You're making incorrect assumptions.

Here you go. March Madness Cinderella's Have Huge Impact on Admissions (heartlandcollegesports.com)

Amazes me why you think I am just going to pull random incorrect information out of my rear when you and your MIAA buddies could google it on the spot and prove me wrong.

I didn't need the article. I witnessed it first hand when I attended Corpus and they experienced their first application and attendance wave.

[Fred]

Today I went to practice. My 2nd. The teams were in headgears and shoulder pads. I watched Lynn work the OL. I love the teaching, drills, and sophisticated schemes he had them running. Very brisk workout. Before they headed for O against D scrimmage, the OL and DL had a challenge contest. Very entertaining. Very competitive. The final round came down to the loser group doing the push-ups. The best DL went up against the best OL. The DL got pancaked. The OL group went crazy! It was a lot of fun to watch.

The scrimmage was interesting. We rolled out our new 13 on 13 scheme (just kidding-ha!). The offense was cooking pretty good. 3 pass and 4 rush TDs. 2 dropped pass TDs. I like the offense so far. More misdirection, quick inside traps, QB pass/run option plays. A couple of the freshmen QBs made plays, both with their legs and their arms. (I don't know who they were).

Going to practice tomorrow.

The freshmen QBs who really flashed were (especially) Ashton Dubose (San Antonio Brennan) and Canon Gibson (Wink). I noticed Dubose at the Tuesday practice. He's quick and has a big arm with a very nice spin. I think he's like 6'2 190. Very athletic. He's an all-time leading San Antonio area passer. Got a twin brother WR on the team..

Thanks for the update. Did they scrimmage Saturday??

[ASUPops]

1. I wont argue that but give me Canyon/Amarillo any day than some of the schools in the LSC.
2. I think you know better than that. Upgrade weight rooms, indoor training facilities, etc.
3. I will leave this here for you for checkmate. March Madness Cinderella's Have Huge Impact on Admissions (heartlandcollegesports.com)

1. I agree
2. I stand by my comment. U of TEXAS has AMAZING facilities. In HS, Allen has maybe the best. But when Allen WAS a powerhouse, their old stadium & facilities were not great at all. WT has what I am told is the best D2 facility in the US and hasn't won the LSC in 11 years!
3. You are correct. This article backs up your statement. I am actually surprised it had enrollment impact.

[Brandon]

In some way yes but three retorts to that.

1) Canyon is only 10 miles away from Amarillo which is a 200,000+ city population center. Alpine and Silver City are literally in the middle of nowhere.
2) WT's basketball and football facilities would compare nicely if not better than a lot of facilities you would find at the FCS level especially in the Southland.
3) Look at Florida Gulf Coast and several other small schools and how enrollment went up when they were featured during the NCAA tournament. I doubt enrollment went up significantly when NW Missouri was winning football and basketball championships.

1. "Middle of nowhere" is a matter of perspective.
3. You're making incorrect assumptions.

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

1. Some consider Amarillo an "Alpine". Just sayin'.

2. What does facilities have to do with being able to compete or winning championships? I'll answer for you, nothing!

3. I doubt being in the NCAA tourny had much, if anything to do with increased enrollment. "Mom, Dad, I decided to go to Florida Gulf Coast for my education because they were in the NCAA Tournament". Yeah, NO!

1. I wont argue that but give me Canyon/Amarillo any day than some of the schools in the LSC.
2. I think you know better than that. Upgrade weight rooms, indoor training facilities, etc.
3. I will leave this here for you for checkmate. March Madness Cinderella's Have Huge Impact on Admissions (heartlandcollegesports.com)

[ASUPops]

In some way yes but three retorts to that.

1) Canyon is only 10 miles away from Amarillo which is a 200,000+ city population center. Alpine and Silver City are literally in the middle of nowhere.
2) WT's basketball and football facilities would compare nicely if not better than a lot of facilities you would find at the FCS level especially in the Southland.
3) Look at Florida Gulf Coast and several other small schools and how enrollment went up when they were featured during the NCAA tournament. I doubt enrollment went up significantly when NW Missouri was winning football and basketball championships.

1. Some consider Amarillo an "Alpine". Just sayin'.

2. What does facilities have to do with being able to compete or winning championships? I'll answer for you, nothing!

3. I doubt being in the NCAA tourny had much, if anything to do with increased enrollment. "Mom, Dad, I decided to go to Florida Gulf Coast for my education because they were in the NCAA Tournament". Yeah, NO!

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

I have never heard of St. Peters.

The dynamics would change if the top 100 budgets formed their own association.

Have you considered that Canyon could be perceived as the "Alpine" of D1?

In some way yes but three retorts to that.

1) Canyon is only 10 miles away from Amarillo which is a 200,000+ city population center. Alpine and Silver City are literally in the middle of nowhere.
2) WT's basketball and football facilities would compare nicely if not better than a lot of facilities you would find at the FCS level especially in the Southland.
3) Look at Florida Gulf Coast and several other small schools and how enrollment went up when they were featured during the NCAA tournament. I doubt enrollment went up significantly when NW Missouri was winning football and basketball championships.

[BuffaloChip]

I have never heard of St. Peters.

The dynamics would change if the top 100 budgets formed their own association.

Have you considered that Canyon could be perceived as the "Alpine" of D1?

Sometimes, you have to stand back and see the forest instead of the trees you're camped under.

If anyone on here watched McBroom's recent interview, his main "wish" was for D2 to have autonomy. The chaos of the P5 that is even now devouring its own has to find some kind of equilibrium, some kind of finality. Once that happens (please, for chrissakes), reality will hopefully set in with the lower and mid-level D1's. Then opportunities will open up for upper level D2's to make moves to more ambitious levels of competition.

[Brandon]

Majority of the time yes but most sports fans can tell you that St. Peters made the elite 8 in 2022 and 99% wouldn't be able to tell you (or care) who won the D2 championship.

In baseball you can have a stud pitcher overlooked that can take you to a super regional or college world series (stony brook, coastal carolina, etc.).

Maybe it was North Dakota State that had a tournament win.

I looked up some of the southland budgets. Doing the math Nicholls State operates on half that budget. Probably not ideal but....

I would love to see the Power 5 schools get the top 100 universities and leave all the rest to amateur athletics the way it was meant to be in a perfect world.

I guess its hard for me as a kid watching WT play Division 1 schools like OSU (beating them in 1980) and now watching the LSC struggle settling for teams based in Silver City, Alpine, and for a while in Canada.

Even harder to watch the old rivalries leave (ACU, Tarleton, and Commerce).

We both have great points. Fortunately for you and other WT fans on this board, WT has the type of leadership that likes to keep it quiet and status quo.

Either way go buffs.

I have never heard of St. Peters.

The dynamics would change if the top 100 budgets formed their own association.

Have you considered that Canyon could be perceived as the "Alpine" of D1?

[Predatory Primates]

I think it's important to realize just how much the business behind the game has changed since the 80's.


Okie state had fallen way behind big brother OU through the 80's and 90s. T Boone and others didn't start throwing real money at OSU to make them competitive until the 2000s.

Unless WT has several of those big time donors, they will never compete with where OSU was in the early 2000's.

Step forward 20 years, and you need about 4 times that level of money plus a collective that guarantees nil money to every walk on and scholly player in every sport. Then you can start to compete at the level of an Oklahoma state.


I am torn on the power 5 leaving. I think it's 50/50. It could revive college football, or it could turn the rest of college football into a niche pursuit with a very small overall following like D2 is now.

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

It's not a strawman. It's the perception of most of America.

Winning the Southland doesn't garner national exposure outside the mention that the team received the auto-bid in basketball. No one outside of the local Southland market and the market of the blue blood that's kicking their ass sees the game.

UND made the tournament once and lost in the first round to Arizona.

There will be also-rans at every level. That's the nature of competition. Essentially, it's your position that WT should play at a level where they won't be nationally competitive a majority of the time and spend a minimum of $15 million more a year to be slightly more recognizable. I disagree that the cost is worth it.

Majority of the time yes but most sports fans can tell you that St. Peters made the elite 8 in 2022 and 99% wouldn't be able to tell you (or care) who won the D2 championship.

In baseball you can have a stud pitcher overlooked that can take you to a super regional or college world series (stony brook, coastal carolina, etc.).

Maybe it was North Dakota State that had a tournament win.

I looked up some of the southland budgets. Doing the math Nicholls State operates on half that budget. Probably not ideal but....

I would love to see the Power 5 schools get the top 100 universities and leave all the rest to amateur athletics the way it was meant to be in a perfect world.

I guess its hard for me as a kid watching WT play Division 1 schools like OSU (beating them in 1980) and now watching the LSC struggle settling for teams based in Silver City, Alpine, and for a while in Canada.

Even harder to watch the old rivalries leave (ACU, Tarleton, and Commerce).

We both have great points. Fortunately for you and other WT fans on this board, WT has the type of leadership that likes to keep it quiet and status quo.

Either way go buffs.

[Great White Buffalo]

It's not a strawman. It's the perception of most of America.

Winning the Southland doesn't garner national exposure outside the mention that the team received the auto-bid in basketball. No one outside of the local Southland market and the market of the blue blood that's kicking their ass sees the game.

UND made the tournament once and lost in the first round to Arizona.

There will be also-rans at every level. That's the nature of competition. Essentially, it's your position that WT should play at a level where they won't be nationally competitive a majority of the time and spend a minimum of $15 million more a year to be slightly more recognizable. I disagree that the cost is worth it.

I agree with you, thank you.

[Brandon]

Yup I agree there will be schools that struggle. That's why I like FCS. Lower level football than FBS but can also be competitive in other sports. North Dakota has made the NCAA tournament multiple times and has even won a game that I recall. Lone Star and Southland are similar but winning the lone star or any other division in D2 doesn't get you national exposure. When was the last time a first round D2 basketball, baseball, or heck even a football game televised other than espn Ocho? You and tons of people love to use that power 5 strawman. It's only a few schools out of each conference that are nationally competitive. When has Washington State, California, Northwestern, Kansas State, Boston College, and Texas A&M consistently played for national championships in football or any other sport for that matter?

I know d2 is you and a lot of other posters things and that's awesome. Its mine too. At a certain point how much fun is it watching D2 get diluted down to the point where you are taking road trips to places that barely show up on googlemaps in Texas?

It's not a strawman. It's the perception of most of America.

Winning the Southland doesn't garner national exposure outside the mention that the team received the auto-bid in basketball. No one outside of the local Southland market and the market of the blue blood that's kicking their ass sees the game.

UND made the tournament once and lost in the first round to Arizona.

There will be also-rans at every level. That's the nature of competition. Essentially, it's your position that WT should play at a level where they won't be nationally competitive a majority of the time and spend a minimum of $15 million more a year to be slightly more recognizable. I disagree that the cost is worth it.

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

According to this logic, every powerball winner disproves the foolishness of purchasing a ticket. The fact that no one ever mentions Northern Colorado, North Dakota, South Dakota, or North Alabama (etc.) in their narrative framing demonstrates the real risk involved in reclassification.

The only place a Southland Conference title has any cachet might be in Corpus Christi or maybe Texas, but it's not highly regarded even in FCS circles. If your goal is only to chase clout in Texas, you might have a point. Otherwise, you're way off base.

You're either Power 5 or you're not. Most fans view a Lone Star championship and a Southland championship as being similar.

A professional talent evaluator was on the radio yesterday and talked about a player from Western Michigan playing at a "lower level." I laughed.

Yup I agree there will be schools that struggle. That's why I like FCS. Lower level football than FBS but can also be competitive in other sports. North Dakota has made the NCAA tournament multiple times and has even won a game that I recall. Lone Star and Southland are similar but winning the lone star or any other division in D2 doesn't get you national exposure. When was the last time a first round D2 basketball, baseball, or heck even a football game televised other than espn Ocho? You and tons of people love to use that power 5 strawman. It's only a few schools out of each conference that are nationally competitive. When has Washington State, California, Northwestern, Kansas State, Boston College, and Texas A&M consistently played for national championships in football or any other sport for that matter?

I know d2 is you and a lot of other posters things and that's awesome. Its mine too. At a certain point how much fun is it watching D2 get diluted down to the point where you are taking road trips to places that barely show up on googlemaps in Texas?

[Predatory Primates]

Looked at tamuk and grand vallvalley h are in the 120s or 130s