American Southwest Conference

[MooseLodge]

UMHB had athletic expenditures of $6.38MM in 2023.

CWU had athletic expenditures of $7.35MM over the same period.

WTAMU had athletic expenditures of $11.26MM

WOU had athletic expenditures of $4.61MM

I guess it depends on perspective.

In terms of UMHB, that is an incredibly deceptive number. UMHB is recruiting stud athletes from everywhere, granting them "achievement" scholarships of various sorts, helping them get Pell grants, and student loans they will never be able to repay. Same at HSU. Don't assume that because D3 is "nonathletic scholarship", that some schools are not finding very creative, and unethical, ways around this. The D3s winning championships are winning with athletes that aren't paying a dime to go to school. This is why a UMHB's average win is by over 40 points over a 5 year period, and why they would be perfectly competitive in the LSC from day one.

I am intimately familiar with this particular situation.

[Brandon]

In terms of UMHB, that is an incredibly deceptive number. UMHB is recruiting stud athletes from everywhere, granting them "achievement" scholarships of various sorts, helping them get Pell grants, and student loans they will never be able to repay. Same at HSU. Don't assume that because D3 is "nonathletic scholarship", that some schools are not finding very creative, and unethical, ways around this. The D3s winning championships are winning with athletes that aren't paying a dime to go to school. This is why a UMHB's average win is by over 40 points over a 5 year period, and why they would be perfectly competitive in the LSC from day one.

I am intimately familiar with this particular situation.

None of this is new to any of us who have been around for any length of time. We are all mostly aware of the practices of the elite D3 schools. Mount Union used to do the same thing and likely still does.

[Wildcat94]

A lot of DI schools are giving NLI money to their Preferred Walk Ons now. Many are giving it to the 105 that can report to fall camp sometimes the NLI money is exactly the cost of attending schools so they basically have 105 scholarship now.

NIL money is not school/institutional money that can be used for other school activities.

[Runnin' Cat]

In terms of UMHB, that is an incredibly deceptive number. UMHB is recruiting stud athletes from everywhere, granting them "achievement" scholarships of various sorts, helping them get Pell grants, and student loans they will never be able to repay. Same at HSU. Don't assume that because D3 is "nonathletic scholarship", that some schools are not finding very creative, and unethical, ways around this. The D3s winning championships are winning with athletes that aren't paying a dime to go to school. This is why a UMHB's average win is by over 40 points over a 5 year period, and why they would be perfectly competitive in the LSC from day one.

I am intimately familiar with this particular situation.

You said that UMHB spent a "fortune" on athletics. They are probably middle of the pack in comparison to the LSC. The recruiting items you mention are not about the spending, they are a part of recruiting.

The NWC was an NAIA conference in the PNW. It was a mix of private and public schools that offered no athletic scholarships. The private schools consistently got around this with "talent awards". Eventually this led to a break with the private schools going to DIII and some public schools going to DII. I am sure those DIIIs are doing the same thing.

[MooseLodge]

You said that UMHB spent a "fortune" on athletics. They are probably middle of the pack in comparison to the LSC. The recruiting items you mention are not about the spending, they are a part of recruiting.

The NWC was an NAIA conference in the PNW. It was a mix of private and public schools that offered no athletic scholarships. The private schools consistently got around this with "talent awards". Eventually this led to a break with the private schools going to DIII and some public schools going to DII. I am sure those DIIIs are doing the same thing.

They are the "middle of the pack" because the amount they report as their total athletic budget spend doesn't include all of the non-football scholarships that they are loading up the athletes with. If you classified those as athletic scholarships, the actual amount would be significantly more.

[Runnin' Cat]

They are the "middle of the pack" because the amount they report as their total athletic budget spend doesn't include all of the non-football scholarships that they are loading up the athletes with. If you classified those as athletic scholarships, the actual amount would be significantly more.

And that holds true for every DII school as well. CWU does not report academic scholarships and non athletic aid through their athletic department.

What is the amount that UMHB has in this aid to their athletes?

[BuffaloChip]

And that holds true for every DII school as well. CWU does not report academic scholarships and non athletic aid through their athletic department.

What is the amount that UMHB has in this aid to their athletes?

I remember back in the early 90's when Tarleton was (I think) D3 and came to play WT FB the year the Buffs brought FB back after the stupid 1 year hiatus. Tarleton won. I remember visiting with a TSU fan after the game and asked him about it. He said, laughing, that Tarleton had a bunch of players on the field with full-ride band schollies. His son, a starting OL, was one of them

[MooseLodge]

I remember back in the early 90's when Tarleton was (I think) D3 and came to play WT FB the year the Buffs brought FB back after the stupid 1 year hiatus. Tarleton won. I remember visiting with a TSU fan after the game and asked him about it. He said, laughing, that Tarleton had a bunch of players on the field with full-ride band schollies. His son, a starting OL, was one of them

HSU and UMHB don't have all that talent due to mojo or some coaching genius. ETBU similar but not quite.

[Brandon]

Massey Ratings 2023


218. Angelo State (34-14 most likely, 91% win likelihood v. UMHB)
224. Central Washington (27-17 most likely, 79% win likelihood v. UMHB)
229. UT-Permian Basin (32-21 most likely, 77% win likelihood v. UMHB)
266. Texas A&M-Kingsville (26-21 most likely, 63% win likelihood v. UMHB)
319. Midwestern State (26-20 most likely, 68% win likelihood v. UMHB)
369. Western Oregon
376. Eastern New Mexico
400. Mary Hardin Baylor
405. Hardin Simmons
518. Western New Mexico

[Rockofwesties]

In 1994 our startup WT team beat HSU during their D3 glory years and after game HSU acted like they won. Players told us on the field after the game we only lost by 10! Like we should be ashamed. We were basically non scholarship in 94.

[frutedog]

I remember back in the early 90's when Tarleton was (I think) D3 and came to play WT FB the year the Buffs brought FB back after the stupid 1 year hiatus. Tarleton won. I remember visiting with a TSU fan after the game and asked him about it. He said, laughing, that Tarleton had a bunch of players on the field with full-ride band schollies. His son, a starting OL, was one of them

Made up story. Tarleton was never D3. NAIA until jumping to D2. Sports were not a priority. We got nothing from the University!

[MooseLodge]

Made up story. Tarleton was never D3. NAIA until jumping to D2.

Not true. Tarleton was D3 non-scholarship during the Barry Thompson years.

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

Massey Ratings 2023


218. Angelo State (34-14 most likely, 91% win likelihood v. UMHB)
224. Central Washington (27-17 most likely, 79% win likelihood v. UMHB)
229. UT-Permian Basin (32-21 most likely, 77% win likelihood v. UMHB)
266. Texas A&M-Kingsville (26-21 most likely, 63% win likelihood v. UMHB)
319. Midwestern State (26-20 most likely, 68% win likelihood v. UMHB)
369. Western Oregon
376. Eastern New Mexico
400. Mary Hardin Baylor
405. Hardin Simmons
518. Western New Mexico

Can we pull this list from 2021 when MHB was 15-0 and the LSC was a mediocre mess?

[Brandon]

Can we pull this list from 2021 when MHB was 15-0 and the LSC was a mediocre mess?

That data is no longer there.

[huntnfish]

A friend of mine coaches on a team in the LSC that has been decent the last few years. He said they signed several all conference DIII players via the Transfer Portal out of the the aforementioned elite programs and most of them have been a total bust this spring. He said there is one that might start and another that might make the travel squad, the others are probably going to get redshirted or cut.