Portal Movement in the NSIC

[FB Player Coach & Fan]

Having been involved in the actually recruiting of college athletes over 30 years+ Location is never the only deciding factor; but it is A factor in the recruiting factor. That was my main argument. Sioux Falls is a deep recruiting pool which supports Augustana and Sioux Falls compared to North Dakota— where athletes will take PWO to NDSU or UND over most D2 offers in the state. Recruits are going to favor going to winning programs over lower tier programs. And if you followed—airports can help in the recruiting process and still result in a losing program.

try to fill out a 100+ roster with only local kids or even a majority in almost any NSIC school (outside of the traditional power- Mankato-Angie-SF-Bemidji)— virtually impossible specifically in North Dakota. The reality versus the speculation. Recruiting is a different animal for each school—depending on location, community, access, scholarship, facilities, coaching staff and success of the program. Happy new year all

[debergfan]

Last 10 D2 Champions

2023 - Harding (Arkansas 44, Texas 34, Alabama 11)
2022 - Ferris State (Michigan 104, Florida 19)
2021 - Ferris State (Michan 108, Florida 24)
2019 - West Florida (Florida 103)
2018 - Valdosta State (Florida 56, Georgia 48)
2017 - Texas A&M-Commerce (Texas 127, California 10)
2016 - Northwest Missouri (Missouri 51, Iowa 30, Nebraska 12, Florida 12)
2015 - Northwest Missouri (Missouri 51, Iowa 26, Nebraska 12, Florida 11)
2014 - CSU-Pueblo (Colorado 81, Arizona 14)
2013 - Northwest Missouri (Missouri 59, Iowa 26, Nebraska 18, Kansas 12)

You could also argue each one of those teams had 50-60 full scholarship kids based on the their tuition rates. Has anyone at d2 won a national championship with flat tuition rate or small gap between in-state and out of state? Every school since 2013 had in-state and out of state tuition rate, in-state tuition rates for their high recruiting areas, see AL, FL, CA, IA, KS

15.4.2.2 Equivalency Computations A fraction shall be created, with the amount received by the student-athlete as the numerator and the full grant-in-aid value for that student-athlete as the denominator based upon the actual cost or average cost of a full grant for all students at that institution.

For example, West Florida - 19k for out of state student to attend, 6k for in-state, that's 3 florida kids for every student.

Estimates based on my assumptions
2023 - Harding (Arkansas 44, Texas 34, Alabama 11)
2022 - Ferris State (Michigan 104, Florida 19) 50-70 full scholarship athletes
2021 - Ferris State (Michigan 108, Florida 24) 50-70 full scholarship athletes
2019 - West Florida (Florida 103) my guess 80 were on full scholarship
2018 - Valdosta State (Florida 56, Georgia 48) my guess 80 were on full scholarship
2017 - Texas A&M-Commerce (Texas 127, California 10)
2016 - Northwest Missouri (Missouri 51, Iowa 30, Nebraska 12, Florida 12) my guess 60
2015 - Northwest Missouri (Missouri 51, Iowa 26, Nebraska 12, Florida 11) my guess 60
2014 - CSU-Pueblo (Colorado 81, Arizona 14) my guess 40
2013 - Northwest Missouri (Missouri 59, Iowa 26, Nebraska 18, Kansas 12) my guess 50

[SW_Mustang]

Does that a lot...

Lol you really are something, aren't you?

[NSU4LIFE]

Fair enough. I was laughing because I felt you were doing what you had criticized others of doing. I couldn't find anywhere that someone said it was one factor.

Each student's decision likely based on a set of factors including things as important as the cost/benefit analysis of the education to things as trivial as the school colors.

Does that a lot...

[SW_Mustang]

Fair enough. I was laughing because I felt you were doing what you had criticized others of doing. I couldn't find anywhere that someone said it was one factor.

Each student's decision likely based on a set of factors including things as important as the cost/benefit analysis of the education to things as trivial as the school colors.

I read fast sometimes and don't always pick up the intended meaning. It happens.

I agree - however I don't think location is as insignificant as some may (or may not) believe. I think to the average D2 recruit, it probably is somewhat important for various reasons, and I think that hurts Minot. I've definifely been in rooms with college football players in the last 10 years, and I've heard those conversations.

Now, is that why Minot is terrible at football, exclusively? Absolutely not. Does location help CSP in football? Not a ton it would seem.

That's my position - and folks can agree or disagree if they'd like. But to clarify, I'm boiling things down to what I believe an average recruit is like. Making concessions for every anecdotal situation (i.e. not "painting with a broad brush") would make for quite the sluggish discussion.

[Brandon]

I probably misunderstood the intent of your Hawaii comment - but it did feel like that (and NSU's post) were making the assumption that others believed location was the only factor, and was a retort to it.

Apologies if it was a misunderstanding.

Fair enough. I was laughing because I felt you were doing what you had criticized others of doing. I couldn't find anywhere that someone said it was one factor.

Each student's decision likely based on a set of factors including things as important as the cost/benefit analysis of the education to things as trivial as the school colors.

[SW_Mustang]

Who said it was not a factor?

I probably misunderstood the intent of your Hawaii comment - but it did feel like that (and NSU's post) were making the assumption that others believed location was the only factor, and was a retort to it.

Apologies if it was a misunderstanding.

[Brandon]

Obviously, location isn't the only factor - and nobody claimed it was. Discounting it entirely though is... pretty silly. Hilarious even.

Sioux Falls, Mankato, Duluth - and location is a non-factor? CSP is clearly an outlier - perfectly normal in any data set.

Who said it was not a factor?

[SW_Mustang]

Obviously, location isn't the only factor - and nobody claimed it was. Discounting it entirely though is... pretty silly. Hilarious even.

Sioux Falls, Mankato, Duluth - and location is a non-factor? CSP is clearly an outlier - perfectly normal in any data set.

[Brandon]

Top end successful D2 in the states can do fine recruiting top in state talent, but I suspect the recruiting cupboard starts to get a little thin for some in the state as you move down the ladder of success.

Last 10 D2 Champions

2023 - Harding (Arkansas 44, Texas 34, Alabama 11)
2022 - Ferris State (Michigan 104, Florida 19)
2021 - Ferris State (Michan 108, Florida 24)
2019 - West Florida (Florida 103)
2018 - Valdosta State (Florida 56, Georgia 48)
2017 - Texas A&M-Commerce (Texas 127, California 10)
2016 - Northwest Missouri (Missouri 51, Iowa 30, Nebraska 12, Florida 12)
2015 - Northwest Missouri (Missouri 51, Iowa 26, Nebraska 12, Florida 11)
2014 - CSU-Pueblo (Colorado 81, Arizona 14)
2013 - Northwest Missouri (Missouri 59, Iowa 26, Nebraska 18, Kansas 12)

[Brandon]

Concordia is in the Twin Cities but they aren't winning the all-sports award. USF and Augie are both in Sioux Falls, they are not equally attractive to recruits obviously or they'd be in step across the board.

Just like we all have different opinions and desires, so do these kids. Not everyone wants the same things, which is why when recruiting you can't recruit talent alone and it is such a difficult job.

Agreed. If location were the only factor, Hawaii would be national champion every year.

[Brandon]

In states like North Dakota & South Dakota there are not enough top quality athletes after NDSU, UND, SDSU & USD take the vast majority of top recruits. D2 programs try to take as much local talent but the recruiting pool is very shallow—so you are forced ( if you want to compete) to go to where the recruiting pool is deepest and has easy accessible airline service to your community. If you are not concerned with being competitive, then you recruit all local ( like some boosters may want).
I don’t think in these 2 states that local kids are the backbone—they maybe the marquee players— but they are not going to be enough of them to fill out a 100 man roster.
I do not know this but Minnesota with so many D2 programs and UM May face the same situation. Top end successful D2 in the states can do fine recruiting top in state talent, but I suspect the recruiting cupboard starts to get a little thin for some in the state as you move down the ladder of success.

I am familiar with ND and SD. I'm also familiar with D2. I do know that northern teams that try to build a winning roster with players from warm weather locations fail around 100% of the time. It's not a way to win.

Augustana's Roster:
31 - South Dakota
17 - Minnesota
13 - Wisconsin
12- Nebraska
12- Iowa
6 - Arizona
5 - Illinois
5 - Texas
4 - Colorado
3 - California
3 - Nevada
2 - Washington
1- Maryland
1- Indiana
1- Missouri

The core of Augustana is local.

Bemidji State's Roster:

51 - Minnesota
21 - Wisconsin
13 - Illinois
10 - Iowa
2 - North Dakota
2 - Arizona
2 - Washington
1 - Nebraska

The core of Bemidji is local.

Minnesota State's Roster:

32 - Minnesota
15 - Iowa
15 - Illinois
15 - Wisconsin
4 - California
4 - South Dakota
4 - Nebraska
2 - Georgia
2 - Texas
1 - Indiana
1 - Missouri
1 - Oklahoma
1 - Florida
1 - Idaho
1 - Mississippi
1 - Kentucky

The core of MSU's roster is local.

These are the three best teams in the NSIC.

I think you have it absolutely inverted. The marquee players may come from outside the region, but the core of the team has to come from the region.

The flight considerations may help land a good quarterback from California, but it doesn't help form core of a winning program.

I will take a look at the last sentence in your post in a different reply.

[NSU4LIFE]

This broad brush we paint of what recruits want is ridiculous...if this were the case most of the NSIC wouldn't have any successful teams nationally outside of a few. Almost every NSIC school has something that they are nationally competitive with outside of Crookston. Not everyone cares about shopping centers (especially in the dying age of them). Most college kids are in class, at practice, at a job, playing video games, studying or at a house party/bar. It's not like you have a full time job to take trips and spend a bunch of money on activities and fun stuff. That doesn't mean certain areas aren't attractive to different people. Concordia is in the Twin Cities but they aren't winning the all-sports award. USF and Augie are both in Sioux Falls, they are not equally attractive to recruits obviously or they'd be in step across the board.

Just like we all have different opinions and desires, so do these kids. Not everyone wants the same things, which is why when recruiting you can't recruit talent alone and it is such a difficult job.

[FB Player Coach & Fan]

Flights could make a difference getting some guys from California or Arizona. They won't make much of a difference recruiting the local kids that are the backbone of the program.

In states like North Dakota & South Dakota there are not enough top quality athletes after NDSU, UND, SDSU & USD take the vast majority of top recruits. D2 programs try to take as much local talent but the recruiting pool is very shallow—so you are forced ( if you want to compete) to go to where the recruiting pool is deepest and has easy accessible airline service to your community. If you are not concerned with being competitive, then you recruit all local ( like some boosters may want).
I don’t think in these 2 states that local kids are the backbone—they maybe the marquee players— but they are not going to be enough of them to fill out a 100 man roster.
I do not know this but Minnesota with so many D2 programs and UM May face the same situation. Top end successful D2 in the states can do fine recruiting top in state talent, but I suspect the recruiting cupboard starts to get a little thin for some in the state as you move down the ladder of success.

[Brandon]

[/B][/U]



Here I am going to very strongly disagree. Maybe you took airplanes to mean travel as a team. Not at all—it’s having an airport to get recruits from California, Arizona, Florida, Texas, Colorado and Las Vegas easily and quickly—-so that the recruit feels that it is easy to get from home to that remote location. Much easier for recruits and families, who want to attend games, to fly into Minot and be 3 minutes from the stadium. Instead of picking the recruit up at the airport and driving down some remote 2 lane highway for 90 minutes—-where the highlight maybe the 2 Casey’s in Pipestone—-while the recruit wonders what backwoods location are they headed for.. Airplanes mean a great deal in the recruiting process, in getting recruits and their families comfortable with being long distances from home. And help in the signing of some of these out of area kids.

Flights could make a difference getting some guys from California or Arizona. They won't make much of a difference recruiting the local kids that are the backbone of the program.