West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Actually band, debate, etc are extracurricular activities with no restrictions. or did Ohio State make the person who dots the I sit out a year on a transfer to michigan? Lol! Rather than a coach accepting a transfer based on love, it is based on need and talent as assessed today ( not in hs). Hs offers have greater uncertainty with regards to meeting needs compared to a proven incoming junior transfer that meets needs. Players should be able to transfer without penalty but there should be hard penalties for tampering. Am surprised no one has sued for restraint of trade because one cannot get in nfl sitting on the bench at bama my Sr year when one could start at wvu for example.

They have:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ools/98877526/

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Actually band, debate, etc are extracurricular activities with no restrictions. or did Ohio State make the person who dots the I sit out a year on a transfer to michigan? Lol! Rather than a coach accepting a transfer based on love, it is based on need and talent as assessed today ( not in hs). Hs offers have greater uncertainty with regards to meeting needs compared to a proven incoming junior transfer that meets needs. Players should be able to transfer without penalty but there should be hard penalties for tampering. Am surprised no one has sued for restraint of trade because one cannot get in nfl sitting on the bench at bama my Sr year when one could start at wvu for example.

If there are no restrctions on the "band coach" at Michigan going after the Suzaphone player at Ohio State that "dots the eye, why should there be in football?? Good for one...good for all...RIGHT? If "free transfer" is truly a free transfer, there should be no restrictions? In that scenario, Alabama could go after the walk-on fifth team QB for their opponent the week before the NC game and offer him a scholly to immediately transfer to Bama so he can pick his brain clean only to release him after the semester? A team that graduated a lot of seniors should be able to "rebuild" by contacting and actively recruiting star players off of other programs. Anything less could be construed as restricting the players ability to adequately assess the market for his services, right? Does this free transfer policy extend to HS? Shouldn't HS players have the right to go to which ever school they want were ever it may happen to be?

Athletic restictions are in place for a reason. While not perfect and sometimes abused, I think they make the sport(s) better and more fair than they would otherwise be. Case in point, Clemson was the NC last season...Pitt was not. Clemson is projected to again be in the hunt for a NC. But they need a punt returner to replace fumble prone Ray-Ray McCloud. Who better than Pitt All American Quadree Henderson? In the unrestricted system you envision, why wouldn't Dabo go HARD after Quadree? Makes Clemson better, gives Quadree the big stage to compete for the Heisman he believes he deserves and makes a fellow ACC team weaker.

[MrAugustana]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Don't know if Dennis staying at a DII was a case of his "deciding not to make the jump." People speculated about which D1 he might go to but I never heard of a D1 actually making him an offer. Possibly more a case of D1s taking a look and saying, "thanks but no thanks" and then Dennis and his advisors saying "Fu$k...What do we do NOW???!!" Tucking his tail and crawling back to WLU was more than his ego could bare but Crutch threw him a life line from NOVA which gave him a way out and a method of keeping some semblance of his dignity.

My bad. I haven't been following this thread and was under the impression (based on the couple of posts I had read) that Dennis was thinking about going D1 and then decided to stay at West Liberty. Didn't realize he had transferred out of WLU at some point recently.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Actually band, debate, etc are extracurricular activities with no restrictions. or did Ohio State make the person who dots the I sit out a year on a transfer to michigan? Lol! Rather than a coach accepting a transfer based on love, it is based on need and talent as assessed today ( not in hs). Hs offers have greater uncertainty with regards to meeting needs compared to a proven incoming junior transfer that meets needs. Players should be able to transfer without penalty but there should be hard penalties for tampering. Am surprised no one has sued for restraint of trade because one cannot get in nfl sitting on the bench at bama my Sr year when one could start at wvu for example.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Good points about tuition difference. Crutch type players tend to have very high hs gpas - avg gpa of team was 3.3. Could they possibly qualify for some academic help without getting in trouble with NCAA to mitigate cost issue? Team has two swedes and had russians last year. In Ohio foreign students pay double tuition at public colleges. Many but not all foreign students are rich. Regarding selfishness in FL, he signed malik who is one of top Broward county players. Success of gs warriors might contribute to a less selfish style. He got a great player from mason Ohio and d1 transfer who was leading scorer in Ashland oh history.

Regarding Dennis he was initially denied but won on appeal so I surmise crutch was therefore not involved in the release. Could be wrong though as I am not familiar with process.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I think you have some good points, Boat.

I'm curious if Crutch will continue to find the hidden gems in Ohio and transport them to Ft. L.

He's a winner. No doubt. It's going to be fun to watch it develop. Nick Smith out of Pittsburgh was a nice start. He's a WL prototype.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Two years ... all it will take until they are smashing people. They look to be very solid at the guard spot already.

But ... you're right. He now has every asset in the world.

I wouldn't bet against Crutch from a coaching standpoint, but I note NOVA is a different animal. One of the chief differences is tuition. NOVA has the same number of schollys as WLU but I note NOVA's tuition is $27K (vice WLU's $14K out of state). Player getting a 50% scholly at WLU would have to pony up $7K...Same 50% scholly at NOVA would require the player to come up with $13,500. That's a huge difference!

One of the strengths of Crutch's teams is high quality depth. It will be interesting to see if he can bring in enough quality depth given the high tuition to make his system go.

Also of note is Crutch doesn't typically recruit big ego ballers so the impact of the 8M in Miami will be somewhat muted. South FLA players are known for great individual skills and flash but not so much for team first unselfishness. Selfish players typically transfer off Cutch teams after a season or maybe two.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Crutch had a history of not blocking transfers from going to any school they wished...Howelet apparently does. The difference between Dennis and Gauillozet could be a matter of when their release was signed. I recall a similar thing when an All American WR transferred from Concord and ended up at Cal PA. HC approved his release W/O restrictions, then within days the HC quit to take the OC position at Cal and within a week, the All American WR was at Cal. If that is what Crutch did with Dennis then that is about as low as you can get.

One thing I note on these coach leaves and player suddenly ends up at the new school is that it always seems to be a star player. If the departing coach really loved all "his" players, one would think he would be just as inclined to welcome the end of the bench scrub as he is to welcome the star. I'm sure Tyler Primer would love to play in Ft Lauderdale but I don't think Crutch would welcome him with open arms...and a scholly.

Athletics, unlike band, is an extra curricular activity that in and of itself does not lead to a college degree. Players are not restricted in any way from transferring to another school academically. What they are restricted from doing is participating in a particular extra curricular activity for up to one year. I'm also pretty sure that the gaining school is free to give the player a scholly if they choose to...even though the player can't compete for a year.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Two years ... all it will take until they are smashing people. They look to be very solid at the guard spot already.

But ... you're right. He now has every asset in the world.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Good point about dyer. Forgot he had graduated. Think he got some criminal justice award or scholarship late in his career at wlu. Very Talented player in some respects. Really took wlu to school at iup lol!
Transfer right is just about freedom to me. Free to mess up, be a star, whatever. Don't want to be here? Fine. We will win with or without you. I think crutch could win a title before mec or psac. European pipeline, 6m in Miami, weather, 100m endowment, facilities, d1 transfers, height etc. Plan on watching them play on net.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Dyer was a grad transfer so he had no say in it regardless.

I hate transfers as a whole. It's so out of control.

Lifeline ... ???? Come on. He could have went to any D2 in country on full ride the second he announced he was leaving. ANY. IUP, Lincoln Memorial, NWMS, .... ANY of them would have sent the limo.

Dennis is one of the best D2 players in the country. Crutch didn't sign him as a Sisters of the Poor handout move.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

This is D2 ....

I just don't get how Crutch has been so exonerated in this Dennis fiasco? That's a major poaching.

By advisors people could mean mentors or persons of influence in their lives telling they are d1 level. Not agents. Agree with low level d1 worse than d2 other than the bragging rights. You can not play in Europe getting low minutes, which is highest level feasible for most players. I side with players on transfers.
Kids should go wherever they want without penalty. Anyone stop a music Major on scholarship from following a professor? If we really considered them students we would have consistency. Had PhD biochem friend who followed professor from Duke to vandy. Got phds from both schools!
So I don't blame crutch if people reached out to him.
People who say kids are recruited by the school and not the coach are just rationalizing the transfer rule.
Story goes that guillozet reached out to crutch in hs as Fairmont was camped out during football season to sign him. Question is what is story with Valdosta state not recruiting hs players? Strange.

Dennis was leaving regardless. I agree with the poster that it might have been a lifeline. Wonder why he was allowed and clay was not?

Crutch to my knowledge never stopped anyone from transferring anywhere e.g., Columbo or dyer.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

This is D2 .... nobody gives a crap about it other than like 20 of us. These guys don't have freaking advisors. These are just kids playing low level college basketball.

Dennis could have landed at a D1 on some level. Half of them are awful programs and wouldn't even win in D2.

Coaching changes always have player turnover. It happens to every program at every level.

Guy went to Fort freaking Lauderdale to spend his last two years of college. More power to him. Sure wish I could have had that chance.

Fort Lauderdale is a slightly different world than West Liberty, WV, or Indiana or any of these Podunk towns up here.

Crutch snagging him away seems to me the bigger issue. Didn't he say he advised them all to stay then just so happened to take his best player with him for the next two years? Yet WL faithful are all blaming Dennis and not Crutch?

Dennis was going to Nova from Day 1. The in-between was all a smoke show. If Clay somehow didn't lose his appeal he was going there, too.

I just don't get how Crutch has been so exonerated in this Dennis fiasco? That's a major poaching.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Don't know if Dennis staying at a DII was a case of his "deciding not to make the jump." People speculated about which D1 he might go to but I never heard of a D1 actually making him an offer. Possibly more a case of D1s taking a look and saying, "thanks but no thanks" and then Dennis and his advisors saying "Fu$k...What do we do NOW???!!" Tucking his tail and crawling back to WLU was more than his ego could bare but Crutch threw him a life line from NOVA which gave him a way out and a method of keeping some semblance of his dignity.

[MrAugustana]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Good points. Pride goes before a fall... Rumor in Columbus was people were whispering the siren song of D1 in Dennis' ear, as I heard rumors about transfer in Nov 2016. If so, he got a dose of reality. Beau Justice made all conference and is with his brother who is a grad assistant there at Valdosta. Now a big fish in a little pond, although Beau said in an interview that Valdosta's conference is much tougher than MEC. Not sure I agree. Although I could be wrong, Clay seemed to play more than Bonifant as a freshman. Some are patient and stay the course. I thought Clay had potential to be the next All American as a Junior (after Monterosa leaves), although he is somewhat of a tweener at his position. I wish him well and hope his academic decision works out.

This is becoming an increasing issue across the D2 landscape. So far, thankfully, Augie hasn't had to deal with this, but several schools in our conference (St. Cloud State, Concordia-St. Paul, etc.) have had kids leave to "make the jump" to D1. So far, the consistent pattern has been that they make the jump and then average 5-10 ppg and 8-15 mpg when they would've averaged 20+ ppg and 35+ mpg if they'd stayed D2. But kids--or, in some cases, their parents/AAU coaches--make the choices they think are best for them at the time.

The challenge is that if the program plays a kid right away as a true freshman, it opens up the door for him to transfer to a D1 and use his unused-redshirt season as his "sit-out" year, but if he redshirts him, it gives him a better chance to graduate transfer to another school, which can screw up rosters/scholarship counts/etc.

In your case, it's good (for WLU) and bad (for everyone else) that Dennis decided not to make the jump. Would prefer to see that remain the consistent pattern rather than seeing more and more kids jump from D2 to D1.