West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[DownLow55]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Does make me curious what was different about the respective appeals of Dennis and Guillozet. Maybe it set a dangerous precedence that was unique to Guillozet and not Dennis , or maybe they thought they could sway him to stay? Probably never know.

With all due respect...why is it so important to keep talking about two players that are no longer Hilltoppers? Talk about a clinic in how to beat a dead horse! I would rather be informed about the players that are still at WL, stayed committed to their team, and want to be Hilltoppers. And yes I realize it's the offseason..........but geesh!

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Agree 100%.

From Nova signings so far, Crutch does not seem to be having too much trouble in recruiting players - Two time member of Pittsburgh Fab 5. Leading scorer in Ashland Ohio history who played d1 as a frosh and hit 94% FTs.
He has a 6 ft 9 guy already on the roster who got 19 against WLU last year and hit 40% of 3s (he is a senior). Glad I have two teams now that play a style that I like - WLU and Nova.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Does make me curious what was different about the respective appeals of Dennis and Guillozet. Maybe it set a dangerous precedence that was unique to Guillozet and not Dennis , or maybe they thought they could sway him to stay? Probably never know.

[DownLow55]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I think Dennis was going to go regardless. He had too many people whispering D1 in his ears. Guillozet...maybe he goes even if Crutch stayed...maybe not. As for blocking Guillozet, why should WLU give Crutch the easy button and allow him to cherry pick good players off their roster? He got Dennis so he should be happy...now go out and recruit your own players!!

Agree 100%.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I think Dennis was going to go regardless. He had too many people whispering D1 in his ears. Guillozet...maybe he goes even if Crutch stayed...maybe not. As for blocking Guillozet, why should WLU give Crutch the easy button and allow him to cherry pick good players off their roster? He got Dennis so he should be happy...now go out and recruit your own players!!

[Chevydude89]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Im sure dennis was following crutch regardless and guillozet after being highly recruited by fairmont met crutch and went to the hilltop. I heard he wanted to follow crutch or stay at west lib initially but was asked by the new coach to follow him somewhere if he didnt get the west lib job. But when he and dennis were both blocked and appealed neither intended to stay. Dennis obviously got his release after appeal guillozet did not. He might have stayed i heard but after he was bullied not to be able to visit nova he visited several other schools. Valdosta apparently got the most votes of his visits taken. I bet if crutch had not left neither would have those two. Next up!!

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Re education changes.
U are right. Most dramatic improvements in quality in anything require radically new processes. As u mentioned it requires parents to emphasize education achievement. People live up or down to expectations known as Pygmalion effect. Unfortunately many parents think alligator arm son Johnny is the next all pro defensive end. Lol

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[QUOTE=boatcapt;2062445]

Agree that anyone (athlete or non-athlete) who receives this windfall to totally free college is POSSIBLY better off. The difference is the academic motivation and time available to devote to academics.
Unfortunately, many kids do not graduate or are steered to deadend majors to preserve eligibility when a great trade school would provide a better ROI.
What about the poor kid with a 3.5 who wants to major in Computer Science who gets no assistance and needs it? Who would have the greater ROI to society as a whole?
The rapid consumption of jobs by androids will cause many of these jobs to disappear and the ROI will become even more tenuous.

I question if a football player and his football scholarship is keeping that poor kid with a 3.5 and wants to major in Computer Science from 1. getting into college and 2. from getting financial aid. As I said previously athletic scholly's in most (?) states can not utilize state funds so must be funded through private donations so I don't think the athletic aid the football player is getting is preventing the prospective Computer Scientist from getting the academic aid he so richly deserves...Of course, the tuba player that had a 4.0 GPA and was Valedictorian just might!!!

My comments are based on 4 kids I know who went to ohio d1 schools. Like u I found it hard to believe the scarcity of scholarships.it was a big surprise. The one with 4+ gpa had 1300/1600 sat and got half of tuition waived. Average subsidy for athletics at Ohio d1 schools is $819 per student per year according to Nov 2016 article. Osu is the only school that is self sufficient with no subsidy.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[QUOTE=Columbuseer;2062374]You nailed it. Supply and demand. As long we fans continue to worship sports over academics, nothing will change.
Friends asked me the favorite sport of folks in Taiwan. Only half-jokingly, I replied, "studying".
Japanese kids go 240 days a year to school, while the USA goes 180 days, like the kids still need to work on the farm in the summer.
Ultimately, the wealth of a country is tied to the intellectual achievement of its citizens.
One reason I like West Lib is that the basketball roster averaged 3.3 GPA. Crutch said he never had the need to get tutors.
Refreshing. Nova Southeastern had a 3.2 GPA for ALL athletes, so Crutch will fit right in there.

Hay...I'm all for the "Asian model" of education in the US. But that would represent a DRAMATIC change that would begin on the first day a child arrives at school. VERY structured and discipline oriented with parents held as equally responsible for performance as the student is. Very much based on standardized testing...for example Taiwanees students have to take and pass a test to go to High School. Don't pass...don't go...pass but don't get the highest score...You go to Vocational School. Same with college...highest scores get seats in the most prestigious colleges...pass but not at the top...technical college for you...don't pass...time to go find a job.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[QUOTE=Columbuseer;2062371]Agree that anyone (athlete or non-athlete) who receives this windfall to totally free college is POSSIBLY better off. The difference is the academic motivation and time available to devote to academics.
Unfortunately, many kids do not graduate or are steered to deadend majors to preserve eligibility when a great trade school would provide a better ROI.
What about the poor kid with a 3.5 who wants to major in Computer Science who gets no assistance and needs it? Who would have the greater ROI to society as a whole?
The rapid consumption of jobs by androids will cause many of these jobs to disappear and the ROI will become even more tenuous.

I question if a football player and his football scholarship is keeping that poor kid with a 3.5 and wants to major in Computer Science from 1. getting into college and 2. from getting financial aid. As I said previously athletic scholly's in most (?) states can not utilize state funds so must be funded through private donations so I don't think the athletic aid the football player is getting is preventing the prospective Computer Scientist from getting the academic aid he so richly deserves...Of course, the tuba player that had a 4.0 GPA and was Valedictorian just might!!!

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

You nailed it. Supply and demand. As long we fans continue to worship sports over academics, nothing will change.
Friends asked me the favorite sport of folks in Taiwan. Only half-jokingly, I replied, "studying".
Japanese kids go 240 days a year to school, while the USA goes 180 days, like the kids still need to work on the farm in the summer.
Ultimately, the wealth of a country is tied to the intellectual achievement of its citizens.
One reason I like West Lib is that the basketball roster averaged 3.3 GPA. Crutch said he never had the need to get tutors.
Refreshing. Nova Southeastern had a 3.2 GPA for ALL athletes, so Crutch will fit right in there.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Agree that anyone (athlete or non-athlete) who receives this windfall to totally free college is POSSIBLY better off. The difference is the academic motivation and time available to devote to academics.
Unfortunately, many kids do not graduate or are steered to deadend majors to preserve eligibility when a great trade school would provide a better ROI.
What about the poor kid with a 3.5 who wants to major in Computer Science who gets no assistance and needs it? Who would have the greater ROI to society as a whole?
The rapid consumption of jobs by androids will cause many of these jobs to disappear and the ROI will become even more tenuous.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Supply and Demand.

Recall the movie The Program ... "When was the last time 85,000 people showed up to see a **** chemistry experiment?"

When you get in to Ohio State ... whole different animal of conversation there. I group Buckeye fans and Steelers fans in about the same cloth.

Ohio State can get the best football players in the country. That costs money. Lots of it. In turn, they collectively make the university a fortune. It's worth the investment. Johnny 4.0 may be a 'can't miss' physics major ... but by and large nobody cares. How many full-time professors does OSU employ to equal the yearly salary of Urban Meyer? Round numbers ... say they make $100k each ... and Urban makes about $7M. You can do the math.

When you get to that elite level of college football and have to keep elite level boosters happy ... you better win. Is it fair that knuckleheads with a 4.4 forty but a 1.85 GPA get a full ride? When OSU makes the weekly deposit at its vault ... they probably think so.

I hate to even mention this but if you think money and football glory didn't play a role in the Penn State debacle .... souls were sold for the betterment of that program.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

May not be this way across the country, but at public schools in WV, MD and I believe PA, athletic schollys are privately funded (donations).

Concerning ROI for an athletic scholly recipient, I think it has a huge ROI for that person and his family. Isn't that what public colleges should be doing? Providing an education that ultimately improves the career outlooks of the recipients.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Good point to clarify.
Athletic scholarships are a financial vehicle for students to attend college. There is no needs-based or academic achievement means test (rich/poor kid can get a full ride football scholarship and/or very, very average/brilliant student can get a full ride - I am excluding the Ivy League). The only criteria is the ability to play a sport.
Excluding the 1% who play in NFL the time spent in football (some estimate it equivalent to a 35 hr a week job, except the physical beating makes it much more demanding), it does not contribute to academic achievement. It DOES contribute to affordability, but the people chosen may not be the ones who can statistically provide the greatest ROI to society outside of football revenue. (Don't get me started on the exploitation of players LOL). It would be good to see the relative proportion of kids who get full rides (tuition, room and board, etc.) on academic scholarships versus athletic scholarships. Based on personal experience from 10 years ago, a kid with a 4+ GPA (college courses in high school) might get half tuition paid for at Ohio State. My personal experience is that academic full rides are very very rare. For example, Batelle Scholarship at Ohio State is a full ride, but I think there are maybe 1 or 2 per year.