PSAC WEST

[Fightingscot82]

Re: PSAC WEST

IUP and Cal built event centers that include athletic facilities. Clarion is building a new athletics building. As IUPbigIndians explained, big difference.

I'm hoping that the new Tippin is a nice standard for the PSAC schools not in need of an "arena" facility.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: PSAC WEST

I don't disagree, but it's not necessarily always the "program" wanting the big gym with all the bells and whistles (although the KCAC is the house that Joe built). If location provides the opportunity, a university should want a multi-purpose venue like that. What you should remember is that there have been numerous events that IUP and the Indiana community has brought to the school and town that they otherwise would not have been able to put on if the KCAC wasn't there.

It's tough to bring in a big artist or performer to play in a gym with awful acoustics and 1,500 seats. Cal has obvious attendance issues with basketball, but they have struggled mightily making any use of the Convocation Center (which is actually larger than the KCAC). The problem is that they're too close to Pittsburgh (much closer than IUP). Very few performers are going to come to Cal when they can perform for more money in front of a lot more people if they head 35 minutes up the road.

The same story with West Liberty. It's not really feasible for them to build a venue like that when the city of Wheeling has an 8,000 or so seat arena that the Nailers play in.

The KCAC is a tremendous facility. I actually don't think it's too big. It's about perfect size. IUP has a very loyal 1,500 fans. The rest just suck.

What kills their number (as most) is that horrendously-long holiday break. They go almost 6 weeks of no students on campus. I'd guess if you take those games out of the average the actual average for the season would be closer to 2,300 or 2,400.

But, every year IUP hosts those Thanksgiving weekend two games (which draw about 900-1,000 per) and then the XMAS break (as I call it funeral season). From Jan. 20 (or whenever they come back) to the last home game they draw pretty well -- not great per capacity percentage but pretty well.

I am a supporter of playing one game at the Field House every other year. I think the fans enjoy one game over there for nostalgia. But, after that you start to quickly remember all the faults the place had/has. The restrooms are awful. Concessions are terrible. You realize how nice those 4,000 chairbacks are at the KCAC real quick when you hit those old, wooden bleachers. The 'regular' group is very territorial to their reserved seats. MFH is all general admission. But, one game works.


As for Cal, yeah, I was amazed how freaking big that place is the first time I went to a game there. It is dramatically larger than the KCAC (2,000 more chairbacks). It doesn't have the amenities the KCAC has and is obviously overkill for the 250 fans Cal gets a game. But, it was a nice addition to the campus. There are tons of mid-major programs that would love to have either facility.

The majority of PSAC 'gyms' are just, essentially, large high school gyms. IUP football games (atmosphere) feel like a high school game and are terribly boring. The basketball games are different. They have a whole different vibe -- and the facility plays a major role. Now, IUP could spruce up the basketball game-day dramatically. They still play to the older crowd much like what happens across the parking lot -- but, it's not quite as bad.

[IUP24]

Re: PSAC WEST

I understand a program wanting a big gym with all the bells and whistles and if they sell out they can be great. But of they don't it can sound like a tumb. But nothing can compare to a sold out old school "gym" with 1500 screaming fans on top of the floor! Lifts the home team a tick higher and can cause a visitor to wilt just a bit!

I don't disagree, but it's not necessarily always the "program" wanting the big gym with all the bells and whistles (although the KCAC is the house that Joe built). If location provides the opportunity, a university should want a multi-purpose venue like that. What you should remember is that there have been numerous events that IUP and the Indiana community has brought to the school and town that they otherwise would not have been able to put on if the KCAC wasn't there.

It's tough to bring in a big artist or performer to play in a gym with awful acoustics and 1,500 seats. Cal has obvious attendance issues with basketball, but they have struggled mightily making any use of the Convocation Center (which is actually larger than the KCAC). The problem is that they're too close to Pittsburgh (much closer than IUP). Very few performers are going to come to Cal when they can perform for more money in front of a lot more people if they head 35 minutes up the road.

The same story with West Liberty. It's not really feasible for them to build a venue like that when the city of Wheeling has an 8,000 or so seat arena that the Nailers play in.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: PSAC WEST

No doubt. Last year IUP played Ship at the Field House. Best crowd and atmosphere of the year ... and it wasn't even close to any other game at the KCAC.

[CALUPA69]

Re: PSAC WEST

I understand a program wanting a big gym with all the bells and whistles and if they sell out they can be great. But of they don't it can sound like a tumb. But nothing can compare to a sold out old school "gym" with 1500 screaming fans on top of the floor! Lifts the home team a tick higher and can cause a visitor to wilt just a bit!

HAMER does have the feel of an old school gym but has a listed capacity of 3500. On a good night it could get pretty loud....such as

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n5uLAYGmjHc

[boatcapt]

Re: PSAC WEST

I understand a program wanting a big gym with all the bells and whistles and if they sell out they can be great. But of they don't it can sound like a tumb. But nothing can compare to a sold out old school "gym" with 1500 screaming fans on top of the floor! Lifts the home team a tick higher and can cause a visitor to wilt just a bit!

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: PSAC WEST

I hope that the VULCANS MBB can pick up their game enough that the WBB/MBB doubleheader will get this rivalry close to what it used to be. If I had any say the games would always be played at HAMER. IMO it's a far superior venue to the ANGELO DOME.

Hamer was a great venue. On the surface it was the same as most of the others but I think it was how fans entered up above and had to walk down ... made it seem much bigger than it probably was. Cal sure didn't lose at home much for 10-15 years. Boone and Brown had some fantasic players go through there.

[CALUPA69]

Re: PSAC WEST

Different times. Smaller venues.

You get 1,500 in the Field House and it's packed. In the KCAC it's not even half full.

IUP would always sell out the Cal game back then. The typical Saturday night game would also draw well.

IUP games at Cal (Hamer) were nuts. It was a show. Gary Edwards was KR ... Bill Brown was in his prime.

... and Cal hated IUP back then as much as today. Basketball was their chance to beat IUP back then. Football was a joke series for 25 years.

Cal also was a basketball power. You never got to see that rivalry. You may soon, however. A few games in the late 90s at the Field House were just insane. I beleive it was in 1999 or 2000 that Edwards ran it up on Cal one night. It got real heated.

If you watch the Hammermill in the 80s ... pure insanity.

Clarion was pretty good in the 90s. I can't speak for other games but IUP played a couple games there in front of jam-packed crowds.

IUP teams were much different in that era under Edwards. Very physical. Arrogant. Mercenaries. They'd beat you and let you know it. They weren't popular ... put it that way.
Edwards was like KR on Red Bull.

They aren't popular now but for different reasons.

I hope that the VULCANS MBB can pick up their game enough that the WBB/MBB doubleheader will get this rivalry close to what it used to be. If I had any say the games would always be played at HAMER. IMO it's a far superior venue to the ANGELO DOME.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: PSAC WEST

I have the 1998 and 1999 Cal at IUP games on VHS.

Someday I have to convert them over to CDs.

I'd love to put them on YouTube (for like 6 people to watch ... lol).

You'd be shocked seeing those IUP crowds. Those were big nights. It would get deafening in there and if you wanted to see the men's game you had to be there before the ladies played.

The '98 game was when Cal won here in OT and Ru'Shawn Roberts shushed the IUP student section after nearly breaking the backboard on a final-nail dunk in OT. That was the game Rodney Horton went crazy for IUP. To this day ... despite the loss ... the best game I've ever seen here.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: PSAC WEST

Different times. Smaller venues.

You get 1,500 in the Field House and it's packed. In the KCAC it's not even half full.

IUP would always sell out the Cal game back then. The typical Saturday night game would also draw well.

IUP games at Cal (Hamer) were nuts. It was a show. Gary Edwards was KR ... Bill Brown was in his prime.

... and Cal hated IUP back then as much as today. Basketball was their chance to beat IUP back then. Football was a joke series for 25 years.

Cal also was a basketball power. You never got to see that rivalry. You may soon, however. A few games in the late 90s at the Field House were just insane. I beleive it was in 1999 or 2000 that Edwards ran it up on Cal one night. It got real heated.

If you watch the Hammermill in the 80s ... pure insanity.

Clarion was pretty good in the 90s. I can't speak for other games but IUP played a couple games there in front of jam-packed crowds.

IUP teams were much different in that era under Edwards. Very physical. Arrogant. Mercenaries. They'd beat you and let you know it. They weren't popular ... put it that way.
Edwards was like KR on Red Bull.

They aren't popular now but for different reasons.

[IUP24]

I know from the original plans to the final plans ... a lot was scaled back. Which, of course, is very typical of major projects. That was just a massive undertaking. Tippin was in real bad shape. It's not going to be a KCAC (or anywhere close) but it will be a major upgrade basketball-wise. It should be a nicer facility than most in the West sans IUP and Cal.

I sure hope it's ready. I'm not sure I can watch another game in the intramural building. Figure that was built for three horizontal courts. Last year they ran one across the three. I never saw a court with more lines on it. I have no idea how the players new where the out of bounds line was ... it was wild.


I saw many games in Tippin back in the heyday of Clarion basketball. That was one of the loudest venues around when the place was humming. The fans were literally on top of the court and those ceilings were very low.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: PSAC WEST

I'm sure in typical Clarion fashion the project either got screwed up or pushed back..

I know from the original plans to the final plans ... a lot was scaled back. Which, of course, is very typical of major projects. That was just a massive undertaking. Tippin was in real bad shape. It's not going to be a KCAC (or anywhere close) but it will be a major upgrade basketball-wise. It should be a nicer facility than most in the West sans IUP and Cal.

I sure hope it's ready. I'm not sure I can watch another game in the intramural building. Figure that was built for three horizontal courts. Last year they ran one across the three. I never saw a court with more lines on it. I have no idea how the players new where the out of bounds line was ... it was wild.


I saw many games in Tippin back in the heyday of Clarion basketball. That was one of the loudest venues around when the place was humming. The fans were literally on top of the court and those ceilings were very low.

[PSACfan1]

Re: PSAC WEST

I tried searching everywhere and can't find a darn thing. You'd think they're building a nuclear reactor the way this project has been under wraps.

I'm sure in typical Clarion fashion the project either got screwed up or pushed back..

[CALUPA69]

Re: PSAC WEST

VC is showing Donte Williams has left Cal and signed with Daemen.

Hate to lose a decent player but 11ppg and 5rpg isn't that difficult to replace

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: PSAC WEST

VC is showing Donte Williams has left Cal and signed with Daemen.