PSAC WEST

[IUPbigINDIANS]

i'm really not one for unwritten rules... you play the game by the stated rules and if someone has an issue with it - that's on them. One I saw in a D1 game the other night... team was up by near 30.. scrubs got in for last minute. There was a 2 second shot clock difference from game time.. at shot clock end (with 3 seconds on game clock) scrub shot a 3. Missed it, but an opposing player shoved the scrub and it started a little squabble. After the game the other coach defended his player by saying "you're up by 30... it's just disrespectful". Now I will agree it was not classy, but being classy isn't a rule specifically. That may have been the only shot that kid got all season and with the way the fans were up on their feet - the house would have came down had he made it. It was not classy, but it wasn't against the rules. Unwritten rules, yes... but if they're not in writing - no consequence is enforceable.

My view regarding blowouts: Keep playing and keep scoring ... but it best be with your walk-ons and deep bench guys. If you are going to leave your rotation guys in the game ... you best not be taking a shot in those circumstances. If it's the five walk-ons vs the five walk-ons ... so be it. Have fun. They practice all year for those couple minutes.


The wildest I've seen this year was the end of the IUP vs Clarion game. Both teams emptied their deep benches. Once both empty, it's essentially a JV game for the final couple minutes. The funny part was Clarion's deep bench players are all about 5'8" or 5'9". IUP's deep bench guys are 6"8", 6'10" and 6'7". So, IUP had a guard and four really big dudes playing against what looked like an intramural team. It was an entertaining couple minutes.

[bballfan03]

Do you think these last few weeks are the final ride for KJ at GU?

Clarion could also open up, although I think they may give him one more year. Cleary is having another rough year at Edinboro but I don't get the sense he has much pressure to win.

The quick fix for both is sitting down at Point Park.

I don't see any other jobs opening in the West unless Rukavina retires or Danny goes back to the MEC.

I hope this is KJs last year. He's shown absolutely nothing as to his ability to be a head college coach. Maybe he's just more suited to be an assistant at a D1 school. One of his better season's was with all of Coach Reilly's leftovers and they've not progressed at all in his 4 years. For all the garbage years Coach Reilly had - he didn't have 4 straight garbage years at any point. Usually 1-2 off and then back near the top of the PSAC. I'm pretty sure Gannon has finished no better than 5th in any of the 4 years - and this year they're contending for the worst of the worst.

[bballfan03]

The somewhat odd item with this Gannon team is they are 2-19 -- yet their bench talks junk for 40 minutes a game. Get what I'm saying here?

It's like the Pittsburgh Pirates dugout talking smack.

To be fair, it's largely been the tracksuit army involved in much of this -- not the dressed players. It finally exploded with the Edinboro incident. Nobody wants to hear the lawn ornaments talking.

I will give it to KJ that his team is still fighting. They haven't tanked, effort-wise.

this i do tremendously agree with! I give it to the team for still fighting for a lost season and I like that the bench players are encouraging and supporting. But i do 100% agree that the non-players talk a lot... 1) for a team that is going to go down as the worst team in school history and 2) for being people that don't ever touch the court. Cowardice... talking when you can't step on the court to try to let your skill or lack there of back it up.

[bballfan03]

Never agreed with this being an "unwritten rule" within the game of baseball. If it's a 2-0 game and you are trying to manufacturer a base runner, that's part of the game. A bunt is a ball in play. The catcher, pitcher, 3rd baseman, and 1st baseman are all allowed to play their positions and field that ball accordingly. Somebody bunting is giving you an out. Situationally, if you're a corner infielder, you need to recognize batter, situation, etc., and position yourself accordingly to take away the opportunity for a player to bunt. I never agreed with the premise of not bunting late in the game to not break up a no-hitter.

i'm really not one for unwritten rules... you play the game by the stated rules and if someone has an issue with it - that's on them. One I saw in a D1 game the other night... team was up by near 30.. scrubs got in for last minute. There was a 2 second shot clock difference from game time.. at shot clock end (with 3 seconds on game clock) scrub shot a 3. Missed it, but an opposing player shoved the scrub and it started a little squabble. After the game the other coach defended his player by saying "you're up by 30... it's just disrespectful". Now I will agree it was not classy, but being classy isn't a rule specifically. That may have been the only shot that kid got all season and with the way the fans were up on their feet - the house would have came down had he made it. It was not classy, but it wasn't against the rules. Unwritten rules, yes... but if they're not in writing - no consequence is enforceable.

[bballfan03]

https://abetterofficial.com/rules/10-5/

10-5 Art1-d

The team is disrespectfully addressing and baiting the other team when they count down. They are baiting them to rush shots! I've had a PSAC official tell me that is the rule but isn't always addressed.

bit of a stretch lol baiting intends instigating.. i.e. - saying to a player "come at me"... you didn't do a physical action, but you incited any forthcoming physical action that occurs because you instigated it. And I wouldn't put it past a PSAC Official to have said that baiting would include the time as they don't know how how to interpret most rules (like players standing near/on the court when a team is on offense or a bench player touching an on court player, etc).

[Scrub]

Never agreed with this being an "unwritten rule" within the game of baseball. If it's a 2-0 game and you are trying to manufacturer a base runner, that's part of the game. A bunt is a ball in play. The catcher, pitcher, 3rd baseman, and 1st baseman are all allowed to play their positions and field that ball accordingly. Somebody bunting is giving you an out. Situationally, if you're a corner infielder, you need to recognize batter, situation, etc., and position yourself accordingly to take away the opportunity for a player to bunt. I never agreed with the premise of not bunting late in the game to not break up a no-hitter.

Probably depends on the score. If it's a 1-0 or 2-0 game, then, yes, you should be able to try to get a baserunner any way you can. That baserunner might make a difference in the out come. I'm with you on that.

But if it's an 8-0 game and that baserunner isn't likely the difference in the game's outcome, then swing the bat and try to challenge the pitcher who has his best stuff that day.

I think that's the thinking behind the "unwritten rule"

[IUPbigINDIANS]

It falls under the category of "bush league" and in the unwritten rules category. I played baseball. This is no different than the dugout or a baserunner yelling "I got it!" on a fly ball that's falling into no man's land and three players are converging into the general area to make a play on the ball.

The somewhat odd item with this Gannon team is they are 2-19 -- yet their bench talks junk for 40 minutes a game. Get what I'm saying here?

It's like the Pittsburgh Pirates dugout talking smack.

To be fair, it's largely been the tracksuit army involved in much of this -- not the dressed players. It finally exploded with the Edinboro incident. Nobody wants to hear the lawn ornaments talking.

I will give it to KJ that his team is still fighting. They haven't tanked, effort-wise.

[IUP24]

Even if it's not stated in the official rules, every sport has unwritten rules (i.e., don't bunt for a base hit in the 8th inning of a no-hitter) that dictate whether or not you're displaying good sportsmanship. So even if it's not against the rules, it's terrible sportsmanship which says a lot about the program within which it occurs. There's a fine line between gamesmanship and bad sportsmanship, but this seems like a fairly obvious violation of sportsmanship IMHO.

And, yes, if the bench is standing during an opponent's offensive set, the ref should sit them down. MEC refs do it all the time--not sure why the PSAC refs let it go on.

Never agreed with this being an "unwritten rule" within the game of baseball. If it's a 2-0 game and you are trying to manufacturer a base runner, that's part of the game. A bunt is a ball in play. The catcher, pitcher, 3rd baseman, and 1st baseman are all allowed to play their positions and field that ball accordingly. Somebody bunting is giving you an out. Situationally, if you're a corner infielder, you need to recognize batter, situation, etc., and position yourself accordingly to take away the opportunity for a player to bunt. I never agreed with the premise of not bunting late in the game to not break up a no-hitter.

[IUP24]

And again find the rules that state so. And again I've seen many, many college benches do it with nothing said.

I didn't play college ball. But played HS and our players ALWAYS did it end of quarters, halves, games. There'd be 10 seconds left and everyone started at 5, 4.. etc. Never once warned or anything. I'd think if it was a violation, it would definitely be enforced at the HS level.

It falls under the category of "bush league" and in the unwritten rules category. I played baseball. This is no different than the dugout or a baserunner yelling "I got it!" on a fly ball that's falling into no man's land and three players are converging into the general area to make a play on the ball.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

https://abetterofficial.com/rules/10-5/

10-5 Art1-d

The team is disrespectfully addressing and baiting the other team when they count down. They are baiting them to rush shots! I've had a PSAC official tell me that is the rule but isn't always addressed.

Do you think these last few weeks are the final ride for KJ at GU?

Clarion could also open up, although I think they may give him one more year. Cleary is having another rough year at Edinboro but I don't get the sense he has much pressure to win.

The quick fix for both is sitting down at Point Park.

I don't see any other jobs opening in the West unless Rukavina retires or Danny goes back to the MEC.

[IUPalum]

Okay now... find where any rules state the bench can't count down the shot clock hahahaha I've seen countless teams do this in college basketball. Bench players should not be standing near the court when a team is on offense.. 100% agree there and that should be on the coaches and referees to control.. but the bench players not counting down the shot clock?? So they can't chant defense either?

https://abetterofficial.com/rules/10-5/

10-5 Art1-d

The team is disrespectfully addressing and baiting the other team when they count down. They are baiting them to rush shots! I've had a PSAC official tell me that is the rule but isn't always addressed.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Hopefully you gambling degenerates have been making some money. There are some tough ones tonight so be careful.


East Stroudsburg at Bloomsburg - This isn't one of the said tough ones. The Huskies will be overwhelmed by the Warriors' depth, speed and athleticism. The only question is how big will the margin get? Vegas says it will be pretty big. Warriors take the SOS hit and roll. ESU -19.5

Seton Hill at Clarion - Way off the radar, the Golden Eagles have been playing pretty well of late. Last week, Clarion defeated Cal, and then lost by just 10 points in Johnstown (without Gerald Jarmon). This isn't a good matchup, however, for the Tippin faithful. The Griffins won Round 1 easily. Look for them to do the same in Round 2. Clarion doesn't have the shooters to bust up the zone. Vegas says Seton Hill rolls in this one. Griffins -15.5

Mansfield at Lock Haven - The Bald Eagles got upset at Mansfield last month. They ended up losing by 12 points, but got hammered for most of the game. In the extremely tight East race, such upsets are crushing. It's payback time. Vegas says another hammering will take place, just with a role reversal. LH -14.5

Millersville at Kutztown - The Marauders are red hot. In case you haven't noticed, Millersville is on a 7-game winning streak. And, like just about everybody else, is right in the heart of the East race. The first meeting was a thriller. The Golden Bears won on the road, 89-88. A lot has changed since then. Kutztown's list of available players has kept shrinking, while the Marauders have seemingly found themselves. The Golden Bears, despite their record, are far from a pushover. They play nearly everybody fairly close. Vegas is calling for a mild upset tonight. Take the home team to win a tight one. KU -1.5

Pitt-Johnstown at Gannon - How interested will UPJ be in this game? That's the question. A trip to IUP follows in 48 hours. The Golden Knights don't lay down. But, to beat UPJ, a team has to play very disciplined for 40 minutes. Vegas says expect a close game for a half, but the Mountain Cats pull away in the final 20 minutes. UPJ -14.5

West Chester at Shippensburg - The best gambling advise on this board: Walk away from this game. In fact, run away from this game. The Raiders beat up the Rams a month ago. So, naturally, the Rams will probably win on the road. Picking these two isn't easy. Ship -1.5

IUP at Mercyhurst - The Hawks won the first meeting, 80-67. The margin won't be that big tonight -- and don't expect IUP to put up 80 again (very rare to score 80 on Mercyhurst). The Lakers are very tough at home. The one big advantage IUP has with all its Erie-area players is the Hawks get huge road crowds up there. One key item here: Mercyhurst had this past Saturday off. Gary Manchel likely has IUP scouted better for tonight than one could imagine. Mercyhurst is also due. IUP has won the past 4 meetings in the series. Vegas says ride the Hawks until they lose. IUP -2.5

Slippery Rock at California - The Vulcans got walloped in Morrow last month, 96-71. SRU was about perfect. The Rock, however, is 3-6 since that afternoon. California got Jermaine Hall back over the weekend and got back on track. It could be the match-ups, ... who knows, but SRU has been a problem to Danny Sancomb. Take the visitors to get the season sweep tonight. But, it will be way closer than the first meeting. SRU -3.5

[Scrub]

And again find the rules that state so. And again I've seen many, many college benches do it with nothing said.

I didn't play college ball. But played HS and our players ALWAYS did it end of quarters, halves, games. There'd be 10 seconds left and everyone started at 5, 4.. etc. Never once warned or anything. I'd think if it was a violation, it would definitely be enforced at the HS level.

Even if it's not stated in the official rules, every sport has unwritten rules (i.e., don't bunt for a base hit in the 8th inning of a no-hitter) that dictate whether or not you're displaying good sportsmanship. So even if it's not against the rules, it's terrible sportsmanship which says a lot about the program within which it occurs. There's a fine line between gamesmanship and bad sportsmanship, but this seems like a fairly obvious violation of sportsmanship IMHO.

And, yes, if the bench is standing during an opponent's offensive set, the ref should sit them down. MEC refs do it all the time--not sure why the PSAC refs let it go on.

[bballfan03]

Chanting defense is one thing, deceiving by false counting the shot clock is another. Fans can chant it, NOT the bench!

And again find the rules that state so. And again I've seen many, many college benches do it with nothing said.

I didn't play college ball. But played HS and our players ALWAYS did it end of quarters, halves, games. There'd be 10 seconds left and everyone started at 5, 4.. etc. Never once warned or anything. I'd think if it was a violation, it would definitely be enforced at the HS level.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Updated Men's WEST standings:

-

TEAM	PSAC	OVERALL	STREAK
IUP	16-0	22-0	W22
Mercyhurst	12-3	16-3	W3
Pitt-Johnstown	12-3	16-5	W5
Slippery Rock	8-8	14-8	L1
Seton Hill	8-8	13-9	W1
California	7-9	10-12	W1
Edinboro	3-13	5-16	L5
Gannon	2-14	2-18	L2
Clarion	1-15	3-18	L1